Lifestyle
‘Modern Love’ Podcast: Natasha Rothwell on Figuring Out What She Wants In a Relationship
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Love now and —
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Did you fall in love last night?
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Just tell her I love her.
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Love is stronger than anything you can see.
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Feel the love.
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Love.
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And I love you more than anything.
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What is love?
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Here’s to love.
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Love.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
From “The New York Times,” I’m Anna Martin. This is “Modern Love.” Every week, we bring you stories about love, lust, and all the messiness of relationships, inspired by the “Modern Love” column. This week, Emmy-nominated actor and writer Natasha Rothwell.
You might recognize her from the HBO show “The White Lotus,” where she plays Belinda, a spa manager. This season, Season 3, she’s finally getting some spa treatments for herself while she’s on a work exchange in Thailand. But in Season 1, when we first met her, she was trying to figure out how to become her own boss as she worked at a hotel in Hawaii.
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Yeah, I just got to work myself. [LAUGHS]
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You’re never not at work.
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Well, you think I’m working hard now, wait till I start my own business.
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What are you talking about?
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I don’t know. I think I’m getting ahead of myself.
Like her character, Rothwell is no stranger to manifesting what she wants. Way before she was even cast in “The White Lotus,” she dreamed of working with its creator, Mike White.
He is someone that I was just like, I want to be in his orbit. And then when the show came to be, I was terrified. I didn’t even want to take the meeting, because it was COVID 2020, pre-vaccination. It was scary times. And I could have said no and just stayed home and wiped down my groceries. [LAUGHS]
Being scared or nervous didn’t stop her from going after her dreams. And that’s what the majority of Rothwell’s characters are like. They’re willing to push through discomfort to put their needs first.
Take, for example, the show Rothwell created and starred in, which ran for one season on Hulu. It’s called “How to Die Alone.” In it, her character Mel is on a journey of self-love. In this one moment on the show, she needs a push from her friends to go after a promotion, even though it could jeopardize her relationship with the guy she’s interested in.
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Putting yourself first is not being selfish.
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Yes, it is. If it hurts somebody, you got to put your needs aside.
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Be honest, do you want to take this management class?
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It does come with a raise.
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Bitch, take the class!
Today, Rothwell reads a “Modern Love” essay called “I Decentered Men — Decentering Desire for Men is Harder” by Jasmine Brawley. It’s pretty easy to understand why she picked this essay. Whether through her characters or in her own life, Rothwell understands the challenges and the joys of putting your own needs first. Stay with us.
[MINIMAL INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC]
[INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC PLAYING]
Natasha Rothwell, welcome to “Modern Love.”
Thank you for having me.
Natasha, I want to start by asking you about something that you’ve talked really openly about and seem to be a huge fan of, and that is vision boarding.
[LAUGHS]:
Am I correct in saying you’re a fan of that?
I am. I am.
I feel more and more people are talking about vision boarding. I’m constantly fed content on my Instagram about manifesting your dream life. What is vision boarding to you, and how are you doing it?
I think for someone like me, I’m busy a lot. And I feel like the end of the year, it’s an opportunity to take time and think about what I’m wanting from the year ahead.
Can you tell me or share some specific things you’ve put on a vision board, and perhaps if it’s worked out for you?
Yeah. On previous boards, I printed out a clipart version of a call sheet. For every show, you get this call sheet, and it’s got all the details of the production — everyone who’s working, when they’re working. Then a list of the cast, and it’s in numerical order. And number one is typically the person on the call sheet that is the lead, or the most important person.
And I wanted that. I wanted to work towards that, and I did. I had my own show called “How to Die Alone.” And I created it.
And I just remember seeing my name as number one. And I was like, I did it! I did it! I did it.
Natasha, I have to be honest with you. I have never vision boarded in my life. And hearing you talk about it, I’m like, wow, it has really worked out for you. And maybe I’m missing out on something, but I just feel like I’ve been kind of resistant to it.
Yeah.
Because it feels —
It’s kind of cringe, yeah.
No, but I do want things, right? I want them a lot. I want a lot of things.
Well, yeah. I was that way by even speaking my wants and needs.
Yeah.
And so I was so tight-lipped about saying what I wanted out loud, because it felt like too much just to say I want these things. But now I go into meetings and I say, I want hardware. I was like, let’s write a show. I want hardware on my shelf. I want —
Oh, I didn’t know what you meant by that. I was like, she wants a hammer.
I want a really nice brass door handle. No, I want trophies, you know what I mean?
Yes, totally! OK, hell yeah.
Yeah. And a lot of executives I’m in meetings with, when they hear me say that, they kind of perk up. And I’m like, I said the quiet part out loud.
Mm!
We love this. We do this because it’s our heart’s passion. But at the end of the day, we want the respect and the recognition of our peers, and that’s one of the ways. And so I feel like putting things on the vision board, as cringe as it is, it is this sort of tongue-in-cheek, playful reminder.
What do you think changed for you that made you able to do that?
Girl, therapy! 20 years. I’ve been grinding.
20 years.
But I was such a people pleaser. I was such a people pleaser. So much so — I can’t believe I’m telling you this story.
I was a vegetarian for 12 years. But there was a moment where I ate meat, and it was because I didn’t have the courage to tell my best friend at the time. Her mother made chicken enchiladas when I came to visit.
And so I sat there, and I was just like, I guess I’m going to eat this. And I ate it. Got real, real sick because it had been a long time since I’d eaten meat. That’s how much of a people pleaser I was.
You’re just sitting there, the plate of poultry that you haven’t ingested in years in front of you. And you’re like, I will put this in. Wow! OK.
That’s a peak unable to speak my needs.
That is tough. Real physical implications to that one, too.
Exactly.
That’s rough.
That was pre-therapy. So now I’m no longer making concessions. I’m articulating my needs and saying my dreams out loud.
I’ve actually read in an interview with you that you call yourself a recovering people pleaser. You’re saying it’s therapy, but I want to get a little more specific, just because I actually think it’s very apt to the “Modern Love” essay you’re going to read. How did you recover from that tendency? How did you center yourself and your needs?
Well, I think for me, instead of deriving value from another person and their pleasure, I centered myself. I became the main character of my life. And it’s that main character energy that I just never had.
And it’s also consequence, because I’m consuming television in which thick Black women were never centered. And so it was walking through the world not thinking that I should put myself first. And so it’s a perspective shift.
And at the direction of my therapist, she encouraged me to follow some fatty baddies on Instagram to diversify my perspective. Because I think so often I’m inundated with straight-sized women, and subconsciously that plays on my value. And so I started cutting the ones that were lingerie models and doing boudoir pictures, and I put them on my vision board.
I love that.
Because I just wanted to lean into the sexy and wanted-ness of those images. And so much of what therapy is, it’s giving you tools. But you have to decide whether or not you pick them up, right?
And you have to decide in the moment of when these thoughts come up, do I entertain it? Do I give it weight? Do I identify with it? Or can I just acknowledge it in this moment that I want to please this person and decide if that’s an authentic feeling that I genuinely want to, or if I’m just trying to placate a version of myself that derived worth from their pleasure?
And that feels very resonant with the “Modern Love” essay you chose to read today. This is by a woman, this author, who seems like she’s figured out how to put herself first. She prides herself on not needing validation from romantic partners.
She really, I will say this, seems to have her vision board on lock. She knows what she wants out of life. Why don’t you go ahead and read this essay for us?
“I Decentered Men — Decentering Desire for Men is Harder,” by Jasmine Brawley. “You don’t want to get married?” Roy said. I always bristled at this question.
“No,” I said with a sheepish smile and modest shrug. I’ve learned to make people, namely men, feel comfortable with my steely answer through humble body language. It’s too much of a burden to want that, when I also want to live a really big life.
Roy’s brow wrinkled as he played with the lukewarm French fries on his plate. This sunny diner reminded me of my favorite Southern aunt’s kitchen. Maybe that’s why I felt so at home sitting there with him — or maybe it was just him.
“I think I get what you’re saying,” he said in his Texas drawl. A long beat passed. This was one of the many things I liked about him — his flirty relationship with measured silences.
Finally, he said, “I want to get married one day. You know why? I know my big life will be bigger with her.”
I met Roy at a bar crawl in Dallas on Juneteenth 2022 — one of the best times and places to be Black, young and proud. Fresh off of my flight from Chicago, I was warm, drunk and happy as I followed my girlfriends through a throng of party goers, when I felt a tug at my denim shorts. I turned around to see Roy standing there, all tall, dark, and smiley. “May I help you?” I asked. “Yeah, I think you can.”
We wound up dancing, joking, and touching long enough for my friends to have to come find me in the crowd to share that they were moving on to the next bar. Before following them out, Roy and I exchanged numbers.
I never expected to hear from him again. Just like with most flirtatious touch points I’d had with men over the years, I couldn’t have cared less. At 32, I had long given myself permission to reach self-actualization with or without ever finding everlasting romantic love. I had familial love, friend love.
Unlike some of my girlfriends whose ultimate joy hinged on their nameless, faceless future husband and children, I often panicked at the thought of tethering myself to such things. There’s so much more to life, I would think to myself, as my friends talked about their dream dress or the ideal diamond cut for the ring they would proudly wear for the rest of their lives. How they would be the matriarch in their modern day version of the Huxtables, the epitome of the Black and excellent nuclear family structure. All of that just made me nauseated to think about.
I would like to think my disconnect from domesticity stemmed from a string of teenage and 20-something heartaches at the hand of relationships and situationships gone wrong, but it started way before that.
In second grade, I noticed how serious the girls would get around their crushes, and how they would change their little burgeoning personalities to suit what they thought would get the boys’ attention. Even then, at six, I thought, ew.
I read that many adolescent girls are inundated during their formative years with images that shape their expectations of love, which informs most of their biggest decisions in life. And most of the yearnings that they would later have to be a wife were just the manifestation of early conditioning from the Disney fairy tale movies they watched growing up.
That’s exactly why I didn’t let myself expect too much from Roy that first night we met. Yeah, the flirting felt delicious. And he showed the classic signs that he liked me just as much.
But so what? I had no vision of what was next, and was fine leaving him where I met him. I hadn’t dated anyone in nearly a year at that point — and it was wonderful, which was a bit weird.
So I took to the internet to investigate, and I found the TikTok-ified term for what I had been feeling for most of my life. I had officially decentered men. It’s a movement that holds space for women to put themselves first, rather than focusing everything — whether they realize it or not — on men’s opinions and influence.
After falling down the TikTok rabbit hole, I realized one of the things I found I loved most about the phenomenon was that the movement wasn’t about rejecting your femininity. It also wasn’t about hating, intentionally repelling, or removing men, either. Men simply took too much energy to care about — for me, anyway. And this was about women not putting men at the center of their lives.
It’s not a new concept at all. At least four waves of feminism involve some form of women centering themselves over men in their lives — even cis het women. Finally, I felt like I wasn’t alone in my disinterest with the concept of landing and keeping a man to be the validation of my existence as a woman. And yet, my heart still leapt when Roy texted me two days later.
My face hurt from all the smiling I did when we went on our perfect first date the next evening. My stomach ached from the deep belly laughs his well-timed jokes pulled from me.
We wound up spending the entire night together, bonding in a way I hadn’t with a guy since before I recognized the type of damage men could do if I wasn’t vigilant with my heart. God, who was I becoming?
Over the next several months, any time I was in Dallas for work or to visit friends, Roy was a priority. When I was there, I was his. The irony, though, is that I would go a long time not talking to him at all — no texts, no calls, nothing. It was a great way to affirm to myself that I came first, to not get too lost in the flowery, poetic nature of it all.
My life was still mine. My feet were still on the ground. There would be no family planning, no delusion, no fantasizing or floaty daydreaming about what a home would feel like if the two of us created one together.
Nope. I’d think, men aren’t my focus. Roy isn’t my focus. And that worked well, until I made plans to see him during a trip to Dallas for my best friend’s birthday.
I texted him an itinerary, planned a dinner, bought expensive gifts, quaffed, waxed, and primed myself in anticipation for the time we would spend together. Upon touching down, I sent him a simple text that said, “do you still have time for me? Just arrived in your city.” “Absolutely,” he replied.
I texted him the location of the restaurant I had painstakingly chosen for us to have dinner that night. I sent another text a few hours later to make sure the time I chose worked for him. The hours ticked by. Nothing.
The next day, his radio silence alarmed me. So I reached out again to make sure he was OK. He responded, “sorry, I got caught up in some things. Can’t wait to see you today.”
“Totally fine,” I told him. A do over could happen that day at brunch, or that night at the lounge my friends and I planned to go to. He agreed.
I shared all the meet up details, cautiously giddy again. I imagined how the night would go. And people would remark on how good Roy’s and my version of Black love looked when we walked into the venue, hand-in-hand. But he never showed up.
The next day, as I sat on the plane ride home, I had time to ponder just how much more space Roy took up in my life than I realized, and how his absence reinforced that. As much as I wanted to believe that my dream career, healthy friendships, and self-indulgent hobbies took up all the real estate in my heart, there was still enough wiggle room for something else to get in — love?
Eventually, as I deplaned in Chicago, Roy texted a short, vague apology for his unresponsiveness. There was noticeably no further explanation for what caused it. At that point, it didn’t matter to me. I needed to hurry up and get home to steam the sexy dress I planned to wear for the dinner reservation happening in a few hours.
I had a hot date, with myself.”
After the break, Natasha talks about her experiences with the Roys in her own life. That’s next.
[MINIMAL INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC]
All right, Natasha, tell me your immediate reactions to this essay. What does it bring up for you?
I’m so angry at Roy. I still —
Thank you!
Like, my god! The number of times I’ve had Roys in my life where they have fumbled the bag. Where I’m like, do you know who I am — and not even career-wise, but just as a human? Do you know what I mean?
Totally!
I’m surrounded by boss ass bitches who got Roys in their life wasting their time.
This is dedicated to all the Roys out there.
Yes.
This is a country — this is a world full of Roys.
Yes!
And that sucks. Let’s just say that.
That sucks.
That sucks.
That sucks.
And the work of so many incredible women — I would like to include myself in that —
Yes, girl!
— is just sort of sifting through the Roys.
Yeah.
I’m doing a shovel motion, for those who are listening. But I don’t know why I’m digging. I’m digging in my mind.
I feel you when you were doing that motion. I’m like, yeah, it feels oppressive —
Yes!
— to be, one, confronted with hope. Like, that feels almost violent for the hope to be provoked and taken away by the same person.
Can you share maybe an example from your own life where, as you put it, a Roy fumbled it? And how did you handle it? How did you pick yourself up and move forward after that hope disappeared?
Yeah. So many Roys to choose from for this story.
Well, you take your pick.
There’s definitely been a moment where a Roy played upon that kind of particular and acute vulnerability of women who are longing for partnership and to be seen. And it’s kind of insidious how it slips in. It’s like, good morning.
Yeah.
The infamous fuck boy good morning text.
Totally.
And I fell for it hook, line, and sinker. And now you have schedule send. So these Roys probably have many, many women that they’re —
I never thought about that.
Oh, I think about it all the time. I’m like, I wonder where I am in the lineup with this guy.
Shoot! Oh, my god. OK, well, that’s a whole can of worms I’ll think about later tonight.
But I do think the bait is particularly appetizing for those of us, yourself included, who are like boss ass bitches, who are in this alpha mode, running their lives, running businesses. Because it’s this “are you OK” is the subtext. And how often do we have someone check in on us because people think we have it handled. And so it’s this little comfort pocket you can nuzzle into of just —
Yeah.
—“yeah, good morning to you, too. How was your day? Thanks for asking.” [LAUGHS]
What do you think made you susceptible to the powers of Roy at that point?
Yeah, I think most Roys can slip in when — I think my life can be rather chaotic. And when I forget to pour into myself and a Roy’s like, I got a pitcher of water, that’s an easier lift than pouring into myself. I’d be like, oh, I’ll drink from this source.
Yeah.
So those moments I’m the most susceptible is when I know that I need to fill my cup, because you can’t pour from an empty cup. And rather than fill the cup myself, it’s when I’m going for the whatever drink that they are offering, metaphorically.
Mm-hmm.
And that’s when I betray myself. Because I do think what Jasmine is doing is talking about the need to fill her own cup. She takes herself out on this date. And she’s not waiting for a man to treat her well, she’s going to treat herself well. And I think that’s how you combat it.
This is giving a whole new meaning to when you call someone “thirsty.”
Listen, the metaphor comes from real.
There you go.
But that is so true.
I want to talk about something the author of the essay, Jasmine Brawley, says at the beginning of her piece. She goes all the way back to her childhood. And she writes about how many — this is a quote — “many adolescent girls are inundated during their formative years with images that shape their expectations of love, which inform most of their biggest decisions in life.” Was that true for you growing up? What expectations did you have of love, and how were they formed?
I had immense expectations [LAUGHS]: about love. And I think part of it, my parents celebrated 46 years of being married on the 23rd of February.
Wow. Congratulations, mom and dad.
I mean, truly. And as wonderful of an example that is, it’s oppressive. That’s a high bar, you know what I mean? It’s like, not everyone’s going to have that.
And compounding that was romcoms, and “When Harry Met Sally,” and all of these cinematic depictions that love was the cure all. Right? And it definitely formed my opinion of what to expect.
In terms of my parents, very famously my mom says she was on this youth trip with the church and my dad was on the bus. And they were sitting together and my mom fell asleep on his arm. And she’s just like, in that moment, I felt like God was telling me this is my person.
Wow!
So that just sent me, a clumsy 15-year-old, all through Westlake High School grabbing random dudes’ arms, being like, is this the one? Is this the one?
Sorry, let me just fall asleep really quick.
Yeah, just like, is this — nope, nope. And it’s just like, “yo, Natasha’s walking around school just grabbing boys’ arms.” And I’m like, “I’m doing something, thanks. I’m waiting for God to speak to me through this bicep.”
Hello? Yeah.
I can laugh at it now, but I think that the impulse is beautiful to want to be loved, to want to love, to want to be seen. And I think that the beauty of this essay, it’s reminding you to fall in love and to chase and to woo yourself. Because I didn’t have that part of my equation for the longest time.
I want to say for the better part of the last 10, 15 years, I’ve been courting myself. I’ve been really trying to center myself in the same way that she describes. And it resonated with me so hard because, again, she acknowledges that the desire is always going to be there. But you have the —
The desire for men.
Yeah.
Yeah, or a partner.
A partner, yeah. And you have the agency to also choose yourself. You can decide.
You say for the last 10 or 15 years, which is a long-term relationship, you have been courting yourself. You’ve been wooing yourself. Can you give me a specific look into what that means for you? For Jasmine, the author of the essay, it’s wearing a sexy dress and eating a delicious meal. What does that mean in your life to you?
For me — and I want to clarify. The last 15 years, it wasn’t a perfect, blissful relationship with myself. At times it was abusive. I would not treat myself very well. And I would be sleep deprived, haven’t eaten.
And what it looks like for me now in a big way, is honoring my wants and my needs. Giving myself permission to rest. And I think there are so many small micro moments of love that we can do for ourselves.
And, yes, the bath was great, and the candles and all of that. But it’s like, you know what? I’m going to sleep in tonight. Or you know what? I don’t want to go to this party that everyone says I have to go to. I just want to stay home and crossword. That’s what I’m going to do.
Or vision board — to bring it back.
Or vision board, right. If it’s the end of the year, I’m vision boarding. But most of the times, it’s crosswording.
Yeah, I think loving ourselves often means protecting ourselves, as you’re pointing out — protecting our peace, protecting the ways we like to live, or take care of ourselves. But then I guess the question is, what happens when something or someone new enters the picture? I’m thinking about the author of this essay, how she’d carefully constructed her life to not revolve around men. And then she meets Roy, and he throws everything off-balance. Do you think the author was panicked by that?
The panic, at least as I see it, it’s that fear that the independence and strength that you’ve found will be betrayed by the desire that you have for this person. And I think it is something that you can’t predict or know. You can lose yourself at any time. And I think that’s the risk-reward of it.
When I lived in New York, there was a Roy. And I’d realized he was a Roy, and we stopped talking. And I’d always wanted to walk across the Brooklyn Bridge. I lived in Brooklyn, and I was saving it. I was saving it, because I wanted to do it on a date. I was like, this would be so romantic when that happened.
And after this particular Roy, it wasn’t a fancy black dress like Jasmine wore and got ready to go out. But I walked across the bridge and I went to Grimaldi’s Pizza —
Yum.
— and took myself on the date that I was waiting for this Roy to take me on. You know? And I still worry that the panic is real of just like, I don’t want to meet someone and give up this independent version of myself that I’ve found.
You’re strutting across that bridge, you’re eating some pizza, and you’re like, fuck a Roy. Can we have that in the —
Fuck a Roy!
Yeah. [LAUGHS]
Fuck a Roy.
Fuck a Roy.
Fuck a Roy all the way. Listen, I was so deliriously happy. I felt like I was breaking rules, you know what I mean? And it felt so empowering to be like, I am not going to put life on hold with the hopes that a Roy will catch up to where I am.
Mm-hmm.
And yeah, had me a little pepperoni slice.
We got to end the interview there. “Had me a little pepperoni slice.” Natasha Rothwell, thank you so much for this conversation today.
Thank you.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
This episode was produced by Emily Lang, with help from Reva Goldberg, Davis Land, and Amy Pearl. It was edited by Gianna Palmer and our executive producer Jen Poyant. Production management by Christina Djossa.
The “Modern Love” theme music is by Dan Powell. Original music in this episode by Elisheba Ittoop, Marion Lozano, Pat McCusker, Roman Niemisto, Aman Sahota, and Carole Sabaro. This episode was mixed by Sonia Herrero, with studio support from Maddy Masiello and Nick Pittman. Special thanks to Mahima Chablani, Nell Gallogly, and Jeffrey Miranda. And to our video team, Brooke Minters, Felice Leone, Dave Mayers, and Eddie Costas.
The “Modern Love” column is edited by Daniel Jones. Miya Lee is the editor of “Modern Love Projects.” If you want to submit an essay or a tiny love story to “The New York Times,” we’ve got the instructions in our show notes.
I’m Anna Martin. Thanks for listening.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Aisha Harris’ pop culture superlatives include (clockwise from top left) Hedda, Marty Supreme, Serena Williams at the Super Bowl, Sabrina Carpenter’s lyrics, Love Island USA and Friendship.
Amazon, A24, Getty Images, Peacock/Photo illustration by Emily Bogle/NPR
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Amazon, A24, Getty Images, Peacock/Photo illustration by Emily Bogle/NPR
Well, 2025 has been a year. A year women on reality dating shows got fed up with “apolitical” men; a year a pair of filmmaking brothers both released solo projects about semi-famous athletes; a year a series finale ended in fecal waste. So much happened, and frankly, much of it feels like a blur.
For better or for worse, these cultural moments stood out.
Film’s nerdiest moment: “Aspect Ratios with Sinners Director Ryan Coogler”
YouTube
This Kodak video is a most perfect union of art and commerce, just like Sinners itself. In his distinctive, soothing Bay Area drawl, Coogler got super technical about the differences between each of his movie’s available formats, while breaking things down in easily digestible layperson’s terms. At a time when theater attendance continues to struggle, he made the best case for big screens, and he didn’t need existing IP to do it.
Best running joke at an awards show: “Thank you, Sal Saperstein!” The Studio
YouTube
In retrospect, host Nate Bargatze’s dreadful Boys & Girls Club donation bit at this year’s Emmys only made The Studio‘s parody of running gags on awards shows that much funnier. The bit starts when Adam Scott, playing himself, accepts a Golden Globe and impulsively thanks the guy who let him crash on the couch before his career took off: studio exec Sal Saperstein (Ike Barinholtz). Soon, every other winner – Quinta Brunson, Jean Smart, Aaron Sorkin, Zoë Kravitz – is thanking Sal, too. Most of them have no idea who Sal is. But even better is how each iteration of the corny, beaten-to-death joke eats away at Seth Rogen’s spotlight-seeking studio head Matt Remick.
Best Safdie brother feature: Marty Supreme
Josh Safdie (left) and Timothée Chalamet on the set of Marty Supreme.
A24
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A24
Benny Safdie’s The Smashing Machine is … fine: Dwayne “the Rock” Johnson, in a naked play for artistic credibility, barely has to stretch to play MMA champion Mark Kerr (the wig is doing much of the “transformation”). So in the matchup of solo Safdie bro sports movies, Josh’s Marty Supreme is the clear if imperfect victor. Timothée Chalamet’s wannabe table tennis champion is absolutely insufferable from beginning to end, but the movie bucks the typical narrative and turns out to be the frenetic tale of a cocky hustler who needs — and to a point, gets — a swift ego check.
Most awkward breakup: Huda and Chris, Love Island USA
Chris Seeley (left) and Huda Mustafa in Season 7 of Love Island USA.
Peacock
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Peacock
It was obvious to everyone with eyes that chaotic “mamacita” Huda Mustafa and blasé sleepyhead Chris Seeley were never going to happen; even they knew it. So the setting for their inevitable ending could not have been more magnificent or fitting: a romantic dinner in the middle of a candlelit pond, cordial vibes quickly descending into an exchange of various grievances. (“Why won’t you cuddle with me at night?” “Why won’t you let me get my sleep?”) Then, right in the middle of their breakup, with Huda on the verge of tears, an unnamed woman in an evening gown appeared out of nowhere, waved hello, and proceeded to serenade them with “Moon River.”
Most satisfying breakups: Sara and Ben; Virginia and Devin, Love Is Blind
Ben Mezzenga (left) and Sara Carton in Season 8 of Love Is Blind.
Netflix
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Netflix
The whole premise of Netflix’s bizzarro pod-based “social experiment” is inherently political, but Season 8 was the first in which political conflict played such an unambiguous part of the dating process that the producers presumably couldn’t downplay it through clever editing. Progressive-minded Sara Carton and Virginia Miller both spent much of their on-screen time trying to get their respective fiancés, Ben Mezzenga and Devin Buckley, to discuss issues including abortion, racial justice, and queer rights. Both men repeatedly deflected and refused to take a clear stance, any stance. It took the women far too long to heed all those “apolitical” red flags, but when they finally did and ended their relationships, it felt like a triumph.
Pettiest cameo: Serena Williams at the Super Bowl Halftime Show
Serena Williams performs onstage during the Super Bowl Halftime Show on February 9, 2025.
Emilee Chinn/Getty Images
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Emilee Chinn/Getty Images
In a most pathetic move, Drake filed a lawsuit in January against Universal Music Group, the label he shares with Kendrick Lamar, for “defamation” over “Not Like Us.” Of course, Lamar performed the song at the Super Bowl anyway — but to rub salt in the wound, he brought out fellow Angeleno (and Drake’s alleged former paramour) Serena Williams, who was briefly spotted crip walking with a cool vengeance. Surely, Drake wept. (And then wept again, when a judge dismissed his suit.)
Most ridiculous mathing: Materialists
Dakota Johnson (left) and Pedro Pascal in Materialists.
A24
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A24
Credit where it’s due: Unlike most movies, Celine Song’s romantic dramedy about a matchmaker torn between a wealthy suitor and her working-class ex isn’t interested in painting wealth and class abstractly – her script engages with actual numbers to contextualize it. (Pedro Pascal’s character’s penthouse is worth $12 million!) But one data point just doesn’t add up, and that’s Lucy’s (Dakota Johnson) matchmaker salary of $80K a year before taxes while living in a spacious one-bedroom in New York City, without parental help. How?
Best Lonely Island album: Sabrina Carpenter’s Man’s Best Friend
YouTube
If her 2024 album Short n’ Sweet was notably cheeky and teasing, like a burlesque performance by way of a pop star, Sabrina Carpenter’s Man’s Best Friend went for the broad humor of a Lonely Island-era SNL Digital Short. Nearly every track seems calibrated to be taken un-seriously, from the chintzy disco-flavored “Tears” to the yacht-rock-y “Never Getting Laid.” But the Loneliest track has to be “When Did You Get Hot?”:
Congratulations on your new improvements
I bet your light rod’s, like, bigger than Zeus’s
Hey, wait, can you lift my car with your hand?
You were an ugly kid, but you’re a sexy man
Most depressingly apt series finale: And Just Like That…
Cynthia Nixon in And Just Like That…
Craig Blankenhorn/HBO Max
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Craig Blankenhorn/HBO Max
With less than 10 minutes remaining in the conclusion of a beloved decades-long franchise, a bathroom toilet overflowed with excrement. This was caused by a very minor character who’d appeared in just five episodes total (played by Victor Garber, his talents wasted). Poor Miranda (Cynthia Nixon) spent her final full scene on her hands and knees, cleaning it up. Pretty much sums up most of the AJLT viewing experience.
Sickest musical number: Mr. Milchick and his marching band, Severance
Tramell Tillman in Severance.
Apple TV
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Apple TV
I could hardly tell you anything about the plot points in Season 2 of one of the most opaque shows currently on TV, but the pure pleasure derived from watching authoritarian manager Mr. Milchick celebrate Mark’s (Adam Scott) completion of the “Cold Harbor” file cannot be denied. It’s as if a more sinister Carlton Banks joined an HBCU marching band. Tramell Tillman earned that Emmy, and this moment is a huge reason why.
Best best friend: Nikki, Dying for Sex
Jenny Slate (left) and Michelle Williams in Dying for Sex.
Sarah Shatz/FX
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Sarah Shatz/FX
When Molly (Michelle Williams) is diagnosed with terminal cancer, she’s inspired to end her unsatisfying marriage and pursue sexual pleasure for the first time. But as much as Dying for Sex is about Molly’s journey, it’s also very honest about being a full-time caretaker, through the eyes of her best friend Nikki (Jenny Slate). Nikki’s commitment to Molly becomes a full-time job, to the point that she neglects her own career and emotional wellbeing, and the strains become evident. Slate’s performance is tremendously raw and empathetic, and the friends’ unshakable bond under the worst of circumstances is the heart of the series.
Best bromance: Dennis and Roman, Twinless
Dylan O’Brien (left) and James Sweeney in Twinless.
Roadside Attractions
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Roadside Attractions
The circumstances that allow for the budding friendship between prickly gay man Dennis (writer and director James Sweeney) and dim-yet-compassionate himbo Roman (Dylan O’Brien) are knotty and uncomfortable when eventually revealed in the movie Twinless. Yet watching this unlikely duo bond over similar traumas is a sweet and funny experience; in one of the year’s best scenes, Sweeney deploys a split screen during a house party, underlining their differing personalities while drawing them even closer together. It’s complicated but they’re connected, for better or worse.
Most diabolical bromance: Craig and Austin, Friendship
Tim Robinson (left) and Paul Rudd in Friendship.
A24
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A24
Alas, the bromance between meteorologist Austin (Paul Rudd) and marketing exec Craig (Tim Robinson) in Friendship is extremely short-lived, but the fallout is catastrophic. Cringey. Awful. Dying-from-secondhand-embarrassment. Because men like Craig — men lacking any shred of social EQ or self-awareness but still desperate to forge strong friendships, like any human — can’t handle rejection. Writer-director Andrew DeYoung has crafted one of the weirdest and most apt depictions yet of the current “male loneliness epidemic.”
Most vindictive ex: Hedda, Hedda
Tessa Thompson in Hedda.
Prime
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Prime
Given all Hedda (Tessa Thompson) is up against as a mixed-race woman born to a white father out of wedlock in mid-century England, her naked ambition to maintain a high social status can be understood. But the lengths she unabashedly goes to are ice-cold, nasty, and truly unforgivable. In one lavish evening, she tries to destroy several people’s lives, but perhaps her most humiliating deed is allowing former lover and now-rival Eileen (Nina Hoss) to enter a room full of peers — all men — while Eileen is experiencing an, *ahem* wardrobe malfunction. Thompson’s commitment to Hedda’s delicious depravity is everything.
Sweetest prayer: Wake Up Dead Man: A Knives Out Mystery
Josh O’Connor (left) and Daniel Craig in Wake Up Dead Man: A Knives Out Mystery.
Netflix
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Netflix
If you’ve seen it, you know: This is the scene. After the murder of controversial firebrand Msgr. Wicks (Josh Brolin), his noted rival Rev. Jud (Josh O’Connor) is a prime suspect and looking to clear his name. While chasing a lead, Jud ends up on the phone with a chatty construction company employee (Bridget Everett), and what begins as a mildly annoying interaction becomes a tender expression of compassion when she asks him to pray for her and a sick relative. Time to solve the murder is ticking by, but Jud is called to his duty, and he beautifully serves.
Most haunting ending: It Was Just an Accident
YouTube
The past is never dead, as the saying goes, a sentiment felt acutely throughout Jafar Panahi’s timely film about Vahid (Vahid Mobasseri), a former political captive who kidnaps someone he believes was one of his tormentors. The temptation for vengeance abounds, but Vahid and others wonder, to what end? Can past trauma be overcome or just merely subdued? The final quiet moment, after much has happened and been said, is the image of the back of Vahid’s head as he pauses in his tracks, having sensed the eerie presence of an all-too familiar sound. With the news that Panahi, a vocal critic of the Iranian government, has been given a year-long prison sentence and a two-year travel ban based on charges of propaganda, the ending echoes even louder.
And still more
A few honorable mentions for my 2025 pop culture yearbook:
Most charming misanthrope: Carol Sturka (Rhea Seehorn), Pluribus
Best inevitable death: Erik (Richard Harmon) and Bobby (Owen Patrick Joyner) via an MRI machine, Final Destination: Bloodlines
Breakout performers: Tonatiuh, Kiss of the Spider Woman; Miles Caton, Sinners
Best movie about an artist dad trying to reconnect with his estranged children: Sentimental Value
Worst bad show: All’s Fair
Doing the most with the least: Teyana Taylor, One Battle After Another
Best (and ok, only) “truthstorian”: Lee Raybon (Ethan Hawke), The Lowdown
Greatest show-within-a-show: “Teenjus,” The Righteous Gemstones
As a design writer, I feel lucky to get to peek inside some of Los Angeles’ most iconic homes.
This year, I visited many places, from Midcentury Modern landmarks by Edward Fickett and Raphael Soriano to humble apartments filled with Facebook Marketplace finds.
The rooms that stayed with me long after I left were not always the most luxurious or expensively furnished. Instead, they were the ones that made me smile and left a lasting impression of the person who lives there.
Here are the 14 rooms that resonated with me this year and the people who live in them who inspired me even more.
A colorful, sun-drenched kitchen in Mount Washington that connects to nature
(Mariah Tauger / For The Times)
Priced out of much of Los Angeles, architect Lindsay Sheron and her husband Daniel bought a vacant hillside lot in Mount Washington and proceeded to design and build their own home. Working over a three-year period, the couple served as general contractors and did much of the work themselves. The kitchen is a standout, featuring bright green custom kitchen cabinets painted Raw Tomatillo by Farrow & Ball, which add vitality to the single-wall layout. A custom metal hood by Practice Fabrication, powder-coated the color of a Pixie tangerine, adds a sense of fun.
“I wanted our house to feel really warm and bring nature inside,” says Lindsay, referring to the Western hemlock tongue and groove planks that she and Daniel installed on the walls and ceilings. “Wood does the heavy lifting in accomplishing that.”
Tour the custom built home here.
In Hollywood, a stunning living room that’s filled with second-hand furnishings
(Christina House / Los Angeles Times)
Caitlin Villarreal felt giddy the first time she stepped inside the Whitley Heights rental, a storied 1926 Mediterranean-style penthouse with towering ceilings, hand-carved wooden beams and a pair of arched bookcases alongside an oversize fireplace.
“It had good energy,” Villarreal said of the 1,500-square-foot apartment she rents in a historic neighborhood where Rudolph Valentino, Charlie Chaplin and Bette Davis once lived. “It’s iconic just by standing tall year after year. It has floor-to-ceiling Old Hollywood windows that blow open unexpectedly just like in the movies. It doesn’t feel like a rental. It feels like a forever home.”
Tour the Hollywood penthouse here.
A Midcentury Modern dining room in Studio City that Raphael Soriano would approve of
(Jason Armond / Los Angeles Times)
Architect Linda Brettler’s list of things she loves about her Raphael Soriano-designed home is long, even though the all-aluminum structure, which was designated a Los Angeles Historic-Cultural Monument in 1997, was in desperate need of updating when she purchased it in 2021. “I like doing projects like this where I get to have my own hand and feel, but I’m still honoring what was here,” Brettler says. “I’m trying to create an idealized version of what the house would look like now.” In the dining room, a reproduction of a Millard Sheets painting, rendered by Cal Poly Pomona students on Tyvek, is mounted on a cork-lined wall. Above the painting, she has mounted a projector screen for movie nights and video games.
Tour the historic all-aluminum home here.
A modern West Hollywood living room decorated with pets in mind
(Kit Karzen / For The Times)
“My original inspiration was to match the furniture to the kitties so I don’t see their cat hair,” anesthesiologist Jeffrey Hamilton says of the West Hollywood condo he shares with his boyfriend David Poli, his cats Romulus and Remus and Poli’s Husky mix, Janeway. “The cats very much informed the color scheme. I find them so handsome; it felt like having matching furniture was practical.”
In the living room, Hamilton chose a camel-colored Curvo sofa in velvet by Goop for CB2, which he found on Facebook Marketplace. Similarly, the accompanying swivel chairs from HD Buttercup and the barstool seats in the kitchen are upholstered in Bengal and Husky-durable textiles that camouflage their rescues pet hair.
“Jeffrey likes to say that everything in his apartment is a rescue, including me,” says Poli jokingly.
Tour the West Hollywood condo here.
A surprising Silver Lake kitchen that doubles as a retro video store
(Juliana Yamada / Los Angeles Times)
Chris Rose fondly remembers the days when he worked at the independent video store I Luv Video in Austin, Texas.
Now an L.A.-based writer, director and producer, Rose, 41, recalls the Austin store’s eclectic assortment of cult oddities and world cinema.
Although he can no longer visit the video store, Rose doesn’t have to go far to rent these days, as he has brought a similar yet distinctive collection to the kitchen of his one-bedroom bungalow in Silver Lake.
Tour the Silver Lake apartment here.
Two college friends transform a Glassell Park living room (and garage) into an art-filled escape
(Juliana Yamada / Los Angeles Times)
Antonio Adriano Puleo didn’t intend to renovate his traditional 1946 bungalow, but after consulting with architectural designer Ben Warwas, who told him he could transform the house into a “forever home,” the artist changed his plans.
“The living room wasn’t big enough, and it featured a huge red brick fireplace that had doors on either side of it, leading to the backyard,” said Warwas.
The living room of the main house is now open and airy, with custom cabinets and millwork by James Melinat that showcase the artwork Puleo made himself and the pieces he has collected for more than 30 years. The living room’s fireplace is gone, but the wooden mantle remains atop a console behind the sofa, graced with a series of colorful ceramic planters by Ashley Campbell and Brian Porray of Happy Hour Ceramics.
“Little tweaks totally transformed the house,” Warwas said.
Tour the house and ADU here.
A fabulous wet bar in a West Hollywood apartment that’s perfect for parties
(Jason Armond / Los Angeles Times)
Growing up in a small town outside of Cleveland, Tyler Piña was fascinated by Los Angeles and the glamour of Hollywood.
“My dad grew up out here, and it’s where my parents met,” says the 33-year-old screenwriter. “I remember looking at old Polaroids of them in the ‘80s and seeing how much fun they had.”
His attraction to Los Angeles, however, was more than just nostalgia. “I was mesmerized by the landscapes and architecture,” he says.
Looking back, he can’t believe he realized his dream of moving to Los Angeles from San Francisco in 2018 and eventually renting a Midcentury Modern penthouse by Edward Fickett steps from the Sunset Strip.
“A Midcentury Modern penthouse on Sunset Boulevard in the heart of West Hollywood, with a bar in the living room? I mean, does it get more iconic? I am, in no way, cool enough to live here,” says Piña.
Tour the Midcentury apartment here.
A bedroom in Beachwood Canyon is transformed into an art-filled office (and occasional guest room)
(Myung J. Chun / Los Angeles Times)
When Natalie Babcock and Samuel Gibson found a listing for a sunny apartment in Beachwood Canyon five years ago, they immediately fell for the two bedroom’s charming built-in bookshelves, faux fireplace, hardwood floors and formal dining room. Practical amenities such as an in-unit laundry and a garage, which are often elusive in Los Angeles rentals, didn’t hurt.
Today, however, the couple says they are most impressed by the sense of belonging they have found in the community just outside their 1928 Spanish fourplex. Here, where tourists and brides in wedding gowns often pose for photographs in the middle of the street in an effort to capture the Hollywood sign in the background, Babcock and Gibson have become part of a larger family. “Everyone knows our dogs’ names,” says Babcock.
The couple’s taste is vibrant, and the colorful interiors reflect their sense of fun and love of design. They painted one wall in Gibson’s office a dramatic Kelly green, which makes the white-trimmed windows and his extensive art collection pop.
“Art is one thing that I am always happy to spend money on,” Gibson says.
Tour the Beachwood Canyon apartment here.
A treasures-filled living room in Eagle Rock that’s a colorful showstopper
(Jason Armond / Los Angeles Times)
Isa Beniston and Scotty Zaletel are romantics. Not just in their love for each other, which they are as vocal about three years in as budding high school crushes, but also in the way they describe the contents of their 412-square-foot one-bedroom apartment. They can recall the season they discovered each treasure — from fruit-shaped throw pillows to more than 30 animal portraits — and the cross streets of the flea markets from which they bought them. They gush about the time they’ve spent together in fabric stores and flooring supply shops as if they were dimly lighted restaurants primed for date night.
“We both just love stuff,” the two said in near-unison.
— Lina Abascal
Tour the 412-square foot apartment here.
A tricked-out garage/ADU in Venice that serves as an office, gym and family hub
(Luke Johnson / Los Angeles Times)
“They’re fun,” architect Aejie Rhyu says of the creative couple Will Burroughs and Frith Dabkowski, as she walked by the undulating two-story ADU she helped them realize.
Rhyu’s assessment helps to explain the joy that permeates the family compound, from the pink Los Angeles Toile wallpaper in the bedroom (humorously adorned with illustrations of L.A.’s beloved mountain lion P-22, the La Brea Tar Pits and Grauman’s Chinese Theatre) to the tricked-out garage on the first floor, which includes overhead bike storage, an espresso maker, a mini-fridge and a large flat-screen TV that allows Sydney-born Burroughs to watch Formula One car races and cricket games at 4 a.m. when his family is asleep.
Burroughs even installed a subwoofer speaker beneath the sofa to give the garage the feel of a movie theater during family movie nights. “Jack went flying off the couch when we watched ‘Top Gun,’ ” he said of their son, laughing.
Tour the two-story ADU with a rooftop deck here.
A serene guest room in Mid-Wilshire that’s a light-filled studio for a textile artist
(Christina House / Los Angeles Times)
After living in her two-bedroom apartment in Los Feliz for more than a decade, Debra Weiss encountered a problem experienced by many renters in Los Angeles: She was evicted.
When her son-in-law spotted a charming two-bedroom apartment near the Los Angeles County Museum of Art on Zillow, her initial reaction was, “I want this,” Weiss said of the fourplex.
The rental had high ceilings, oak floors, ample sunlight, an appealing fireplace, a garage and a washer and dryer.
In the guest room, a wall hanging composed of three separate weavings in a gingham check pattern is embroidered with a series of characters she based on her 5-year-old granddaughter’s drawings. “It’s about people coming together in chaos and supporting each other,” Weiss said.
Even though the process of having to move was stressful, Weiss is happy with her new home and neighborhood. “I take the Metro bus everywhere and hardly ever drive,” she said. “Everything worked out perfectly.”
Tour the sunny Mid-Wilshire fourplex here.
A ’70s-inspired speakeasy/lounge in Highland Park that’s hidden behind a bookcase
(Carianne Older / For The Times)
Standing beneath a glittering tiered chandelier in her pink “cloffice,” designer Dani Dazey shares the essence of her colorful style: “From the wallpaper to the artwork, my home is a reflection of me right now,” she explains. “It’s a personal and hip twist on traditional design.”
Rather than embrace rustic farmhouse style or minimalist Midcentury Modern design as is often the case in Los Angeles, Dazey has taken the Highland Park home she shares with husband Phillip Butler and given it an over-the-top maximalist spin.
The speakeasy lounge, accessible through a hidden door sliding bookcase, is a ‘70s-inspired sanctuary with a modular sofa, curtains and wallpaper in the same floral pattern.
Their home is proof, that our homes should make us happy by reflecting who we are. In Dazey’s case, that translates to bold color, lush textures and retro vibes.
Tour the Highland Park home here.
A memento-filled living room in Long Beach is an ode to ‘the people we love’
(Genaro Molina / Los Angeles Times)
A sense of fun permeates the rooms of Cecilia and Abraham Beltran’s colorful one-bedroom Midcentury apartment in Long Beach.
“We both have a deep passion for Midcentury design and color,” Cecilia shares.
The Beltrans’ apartment encapsulates their design sensibility and “above all, the people we love,” Cecilia says. There’s bold, Midcentury Modern-inspired furniture the couple found on Craigslist, tongue-in-cheek smiling pillows and the “Hole to Another Universe” wall decal by Blik, which can be removed when they move. Peppered throughout the space are mementos from their travels, such as the limited-edition art print “La Famille” purchased on a trip to London in 2023.
Ultimately, Cecilia says, she wants the apartment “to feel like us. I think we pulled it off.”
Tour the Long Beach apartment here.
In Reseda, an apartment where every antique tells a story
(Stephen Ross Goldstein / For The Times)
When Evelyn Bauer, 97, downsized from her four-bedroom home in Sherman Oaks to an apartment in Reseda in 2014, the longtime collector and antiques dealer was forced to relinquish many of her personal belongings.
“Collecting is my passion, my addiction, and I’m so happy to be afflicted with it,” says Bauer, whose two-bedroom, two-bathroom apartment at an independent living facility for seniors is filled with furnishings and decorative arts from her 65 years as a collector.
Step inside her living room, and the vast collection of antiques feels like entering the former Encino Antique Center, where she was once the proprietor during the 1990s. Each item has a story, a memory and a unique charm that she cherishes.
“There’s always room for one more gem,” she says.
Tour the Reseda apartment here.
On-air challenge
Every answer today is a familiar two-word phrase or name in which the first word starts BE- and the second word start D- (as in “bed”). (Ex. Sauce often served with tortilla chips –> BEAN DIP)
1. Sinuous Mideast entertainer who may have a navel decoration
2. Oscar category won multiple times by Frank Capra and Steven Spielberg
3. While it’s still light at the end of the day
4. Obstruction in a stream made by animals that gnaw
5. Actress who starred in “Now, Voyager” and “Whatever Happened to Baby Jane?”
6. Two-time Conservative prime minister of Great Britain in the 19th century
7. Italian for “beautiful woman”
8. Patron at an Oktoberfest, e.g.
9. Dim sum dish made with ground meat and fillings wrapped in a wonton and steamed
10. [Fill in the blank:] Something that is past its prime has seen ___
11. Like the engine room and sleeping quarters on a ship
Last week’s challenge
Last week’s challenge came from Robert Flood, of Allen, Texas. Name a famous female singer of the past (five letters in the first name, seven letters in the last name). Remove the last letter of her first name and you can rearrange all the remaining letters to name the capital of a country (six letters) and a food product that its nation is famous for (five letters).
Challenge answer
Sarah Vaughan, Havana, Sugar.
Winner
Josh McIntyre of Raleigh, N.C.
This week’s challenge (something different)
I was at a library. On the shelf was a volume whose spine said “OUT TO SEA.” When I opened the volume, I found the contents has nothing to do with sailing or the sea in any sense. It wasn’t a book of fiction either. What was in the volume?
If you know the answer to the challenge, submit it below by Wednesday, December 24 at 3 p.m. ET. Listeners whose answers are selected win a chance to play the on-air puzzle.
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