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‘Modern Love’ Podcast: Why Gossiping Could Help Your Love Life

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‘Modern Love’ Podcast: Why Gossiping Could Help Your Love Life

For Kelsey McKinney, the author of the new book, “You Didn’t Hear This From Me: (Mostly) True Notes on Gossip,” spreading a good story occupied a morally gray zone throughout her childhood.

McKinney, who is also the former host of the podcast, “Normal Gossip,” talks with Modern Love’s Anna Martin about navigating the ups and downs of gossiping in her own life.

McKinney also reads the Modern Love essay “We Were a Party of Two, but Never Quite Alone” by Linda Button, who tells the story of how gossiping with her rich suitor’s exes brought the euphoria of her relationship back down to earth. While reading Button’s essay, McKinney fields questions from Martin so they can do some gossiping of their own.

Links to transcripts of episodes generally appear on these pages within a week.


“Modern Love” is hosted by Anna Martin and produced by Reva Goldberg, Emily Lang, Davis Land, Amy Pearl and Sara Curtis. The show is edited by Jen Poyant, our executive producer. Production management is by Christina Djossa. The show is mixed by Daniel Ramirez and recorded by Maddy Masiello and Nick Pitman. It features original music by Dan Powell. Our theme music is by Dan Powell.

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Special thanks to Larissa Anderson, Dahlia Haddad, Lisa Tobin, Brooke Minters, Sawyer Roque, Daniel Jones, Miya Lee, Mahima Chablani, Nell Gallogly, Jeffrey Miranda, Isabella Anderson, Christine Nguyen, Reyna Desai, Jordan Cohen, Victoria Kim, Nina Lassam and Julia Simon.

Thoughts? Email us at modernlovepodcast@nytimes.com.

Want more from Modern Love? Read past stories. Watch the TV series and sign up for the newsletter. We also have swag at the NYT Store and two books, “Modern Love: True Stories of Love, Loss and Redemption” and “Tiny Love Stories: True Tales of Love in 100 Words or Less.”

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Video: Farmer Rescues ‘Gay Sheep,’ Creates Rainbow Wool

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Video: Farmer Rescues ‘Gay Sheep,’ Creates Rainbow Wool

new video loaded: Farmer Rescues ‘Gay Sheep,’ Creates Rainbow Wool

A German sheep farmer and a Los Angeles fashion designer have collaborated to produce a knitwear collection made from the wool of sheep that have been saved from the slaughterhouse.

By Chevaz Clarke

November 11, 2025

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Ana de Armas Hangs With Hunky New Man After Rumored Tom Cruise Split

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Ana de Armas Hangs With Hunky New Man After Rumored Tom Cruise Split

Ana de Armas
Spotted With Hunk
… After Rumored Tom Cruise Split

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‘Flesh’ wins 2025 Booker Prize: ‘We had never read anything quite like it’

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‘Flesh’ wins 2025 Booker Prize: ‘We had never read anything quite like it’

Flesh is Hungarian-British author David Szalay’s sixth novel.

Yuki Sugiura/Booker Prize Foundation


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Yuki Sugiura/Booker Prize Foundation

István isn’t one of the most talkative characters in literary fiction. He says “yeah” and “okay” a lot, and is mostly reactive to the world around him. But that quietness covers up a tumultuous life — from Hungary to England, from poverty to being in close contact with the super-rich.

He’s the center of David Szalay’s latest novel, Flesh, which just won this year’s Booker Prize. “We had never read anything quite like it,” said Roddy Doyle, chair of this year’s prize, in a statement announcing the win. “I don’t think I’ve read a novel that uses the white space on the page so well. It’s as if the author, David Szalay, is inviting the reader to fill the space, to observe — almost to create — the character with him.”

The Booker Prize is one of the most prestigious awards in literature. It honors the best English-language novels published in the U.K. Winners of the awards receive £50,000, and usually a decent bump in sales.

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Szalay is a Hungarian-British author. Flesh is his sixth novel. In 2016, he was shortlisted for the Booker prize for his book All That Man Is. He told the Booker Prize that he was inspired to write Flesh after his own time living between Hungary and England, and noticing the cultural and economic divides that exist within contemporary Europe. “I also wanted to write about life as a physical experience, about what it’s like to be a living body in the world.”

Flesh beat out five other books for the win — including Susan Choi’s Flashlight, Kiran Desai’s The Loneliness of Sonia and Sunny, Katie Kitamura’s Audition, Ben Markovits’ The Rest of Our Lives and The Land in Winter by Andrew Miller.

The other judges for this year were novelist Ayọ̀bámi Adébáyọ̀, critic Chris Power, author Kiley Reid and actor and producer Sarah Jessica Parker.

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