MS. JOHNSON: I want to go ahead and jump into–and piggyback off of what you just said in that intro video, at the end of it, where you were talking about how the teacher shortage is a reflection of a lack of respect. Can you unpack that a little bit? Talk to us about what you mean by a lack of respect.

SEC. CARDONA: Absolutely. You know, I started off as a fourth-grade teacher and a school principal, and, you know, I have children in public schools. So when I say that the teacher shortage issue is a symptom of a teacher respect issue, I mean just that. I mean that as a profession, it seems that in 2024, many educators are still fighting for that professional status, and that’s reflected in, you know, teachers making about 26 percent less than people with similar degrees.

Another example is that we’ve normalized that teachers, many of whom have master’s degrees, have to bartend or have to drive Ubers to make ends meet. And in many states, teachers are eligible for state assistance. We have to do better.

MS. JOHNSON: So when you’re talking about respect, you’re talking about societal respect? You’re talking about respect from parent? Are you talking about–a little bit of all of it is what it sounds like.

SEC. CARDONA: Well, you know, I think, in general, I think we have to make sure that if we are serious about addressing the shortages in the profession, we provide what I call the ABCs, you know, agency and treat them like professionals, better working conditions, pathways to career growth, and conditions where they have enough support to meet the needs of the students. And then C is competitive salaries. You know, if I were to add a D to that, Akilah, I would say diversity also. We have to make sure that our professional staff reflect the beautiful diversity of our country.

MS. JOHNSON: Absolutely. And according to a report that your Department put out in 2022, 41 states and D.C. are facing teacher shortages in at least one subject area or at least one grade level, and this is an issue that was exacerbated by the covid-19 pandemic, right? And so you’ve got burnout, low pay, and it sounds like from what you’re mentioning, a respect issue were kind of key considerations that were driving people from education. And so I guess one of my questions for you is, how do you begin to change that? How do you begin to kind of turn that ship around on the teacher shortage crisis?

SEC. CARDONA: Well, let me tell you, it is the best profession. It is the best profession, without question. Very few other professions are possible without teachers.

And, you know, the ability to engage with students and help them develop their skills and find themselves is one of the most rewarding things you could do, and I tell you the profession sells itself. We just need to support.

So what we’re doing is–you know, I mean, if you look at our budget, you’ll see how we’re showing. We’re putting over $2.7 billion in teacher quality programs. We’re investing in grow-your-own programs. We’re also making sure that teacher voice is listened to, and we’re talking about how to not only reopen but recover and reimagine education. We’re fighting to make sure that teachers have a seat at the table. Aside from parents, teachers know the children more than anyone else.

So for me, these are some ways that we’re doing it. We’re reminding folks that teachers shape lives. So I don’t want you to think for one second that it’s a profession that I think that people should steer away from. If anything, I have found throughout my career, people change careers because they went through what Luis Miranda calls a “purpose crisis.” And they realized that they want to serve their community, and teaching is the best profession for that.

Part of the reason why I think, you know, we need to be aggressive about moving forward is because teachers do this for the love of their students, but they should be able to, you know, teach for the love of their students while also be respected and paid competitively with other professions that have similar degrees.

MS. JOHNSON: Let’s go back to those ABCs you mentioned a little bit and piggyback off of that answer when you talk about agency and the importance of teachers having a seat at the table. How are you all doing that at the federal level, making sure that teachers have a seat at the table at the district level, at the state level, at the federal level? Like, what does that look like?

SEC. CARDONA: Yeah, that’s a great question, and, you know, I think educators want to feel respected. They want to feel like they’re being valued for what they bring to the table. So across the board, you know, at the Department of Education at the federal level, we have quarterly meetings with teacher groups. In each of my visits–I visited 48 states and territories–I have conversations with educators about what’s working, what’s not working. You know, how are you perceiving the policies and the practices that we’re promoting in Washington, D.C.? What should we be focusing on? So it’s about making sure that they have a seat at the table, but also that the policies and rules that we come up with or the guidance that we come up with have their fingerprints on it. Who better than our educators who are with our students to help us guide guidance that can help improve schools across the country?

We also work very closely with teachers in different–you know, at state-level organizations, teachers. We bring teachers–I mean, the person leading my multilingual efforts nationally is a former teacher. So for me, it’s more than just listening to them. It’s also asking them to take part in the team to help us improve education across the country.

MS. JOHNSON: And, you know, one of the things that you’ve mentioned is the need to kind of increase salary, right? I’ve never been a teacher, but I was an education reporter. So I spent some time in the classroom with teachers, and they are doing God’s work, shall we say, dealing with the littles all day.

MS. JOHNSON: And so, you know, you’re talking about teachers who are having to supplement their income, driving Uber and bartending. What other considerations need to be made to kind of attract and retain talent as you’re talking about making sure folks have agency and have that seat at the table, specifically when it comes around making sure that people are paid what they deserve?

SEC. CARDONA: Exactly. Well, look, you know, payment, working conditions, respect, these are all things that are critical in any career and any profession, right? And we’re doing our part, not only with working with states and really lifting up the issue. I’m proud to say that over 35 states have already increased teacher salary in the last couple of years, but we still have work to do. There’s some states that start their teachers with a salary of 38-, $39,000 a year.

We’re also working on the backend to provide public service loan forgiveness to our teachers, our para-educated, people who work in the profession. If you work for 10 years and you’re paying your loans for 10 years, we’re going to provide public service loan forgiveness. So we’re doing different things there. But really, it’s, you know, you pay now or you pay later. You pay a competitive salary or you’re going to be paying an intervention.

But I have to tell you, look, educators get into this profession because they want to help their community, help children, but they shouldn’t be–we shouldn’t stop pushing for competitive salaries, because their intention is to help students. And oftentimes we’ve created this culture in this country where if a teacher’s saying, you know, I’m getting paid 20-, $30,000 less than someone with a similar degree in another profession, you know, oftentimes they’re looked at as, well, you’re not really for students because you’re fighting. I challenge that. I think we need to make sure. You know, I often say we want Finland results, but we don’t put the Finland investments. We want to make sure like these countries–Singapore, Finland–that we all hear about. The first thing that they do is invest in the people that are serving their students, para-educators, teachers, principals, invest not only in financial, like competitive salary, but also in professional development and ensuring that they have time to learn and grow and be better. These are all things that we’re seeing, we’re supporting, we’re funding. And I’m pleased to see that the places that do invest in this have better retention rates. You know, the teachers want to be there, and the students produce better.

MS. JOHNSON: You know, it’s interesting. You said something about working for the students, and I want to zoom in a little bit and talk specifically about how the impact of teacher shortages–the impact teacher shortages are having on special education. And a special education instructor once said to me, “I work for the students. I don’t work for the principal. I don’t work for the district. I work for the students.” And so if we’re talking specifically about special education, close to 15 percent of students enrolled in U.S. public schools qualify for what we call IEP, right, like an individual education plan. And so how are these students kind of impacted by this teacher shortage, and what needs to be done to make sure that they all–that those students are getting the resources that they deserve and they need based off of their IEPs?

SEC. CARDONA: Sure. Yeah, that’s a great question. You know, and it’s funny because I had a similar story to yours, Akilah. When I was a student teacher getting into the profession, I had a special education teacher named Rindy Hardy, who said to me, “Miguel, as you go into this profession, never forget you teach kids, not curriculum,” and that stuck with me.

Look, when we have a teacher shortage or when we have students being taught by long-term subs–and God bless the substitute teachers. They do great work, but when we have students learning over a long period of time by a substitute teacher, it affects all students because they don’t have the certification. It double impacts students with exceptionalities or students with disabilities, because the adherence to the individualized education plan that you made reference to has to be followed no matter what. Now, if that person is a substitute or you don’t have a teacher in that classroom, the chances that the IEP and the individualized plan for learning being followed is diminished.

Now, when you have students who struggle or students who get disconnected from school because the plan is not being followed, that’s how you lose students. So the impact is greater.

We provide $15 billion to students for IDEA, Individuals with Disability Education Act, and we know that there’s still a great need. And I want to really emphasize that special education teachers are the salt of the earth, without question. But it’s important that we also remember that students with disabilities, before they’re special education students, they’re general education students. They should have access to the core curriculum. So we need to make sure that our classroom teachers have adequate professional development, that all teachers can serve students with disabilities, not just specialized special education teachers.

I think we run the risk of isolating students further if we think that the only way that they’re going to grow is by having a paraeducator with them or a special education teacher with them all day. Yes, that’s going to be helpful, and in some IEPs, it’s required. But let me tell you, all teachers need to be supported, developed, to meet the needs of all learners.

MS. JOHNSON: You know, you’re mentioning something that touches on an audience question that we got, right? And so we received a number of them, and I want to share what Jacqueline from Idaho has asked us. And she says, you know, “Students with disabilities are largely excluded in learning communities, often physically and socially segregated from their peers without disabilities. How can we better include the voices of persons with a disability generally and intellectual disabilities specifically into these discussions as we’re talking about diversity, equity, and inclusion in education?”

SEC. CARDONA: Yeah, that’s a great question, Jacqueline, and I appreciate it. You know, in my experience as a school principal, one of the things that we work really hard on is making sure that students feel seen, welcomed, and a part of a bigger community. And, you know, for all students, it’s really important that you’re learning in an environment where you feel that you belong.

You know, think about the emotional toll it takes on students when they feel–especially at the elementary level, where they feel like in order for them to learn, they have to be brought to a different room or in a room the size of a closet to get their learning. I think that’s really ignoring the social well-being of that child, the emotional well-being of that child. The last thing you want is for that student to have lowered expectations.

Now, students with disability–all students, quite frankly, learn at different paces. So it could be that we provide professional learning, we provide opportunities for differentiation, where an adequately funded, adequately supported school has the resources to ensure that students get what they need and their learning profile gets met while they’re learning the content.

A lot of work–when I was at school–you know, I’m talking 20 years ago. We talked a lot about inclusion and what that means and differentiating in how the student learns, what the student is learning, and how we assess our students. So this is an ongoing–this is an ongoing learning opportunity and challenge that we have across the country.

But let me tell you, when you have a substitute teacher, every day, a different substitute teacher, because we’re not paying teachers adequately, and then you don’t have a permanent teacher, the chances of that student getting differentiation is minimal.

So I think this is a perfect example, and Jacqueline’s question really painted the picture. Unless we provide good professional learning opportunities on what good inclusion looks like, we’re not going to see it and our students are going to suffer.

MS. JOHNSON: You know, we’ve talked a bit about kind of how to retain teachers more broadly, right? But let’s think specifically and stay on this issue of special education instruction. How do you make sure and retain that–make sure and retain the pool of special educators you have, and then how do you grow that? Because it sounds like, right, there’s not only a need to retain what’s there, but to grow that pool.

SEC. CARDONA: Yeah, there is a shortage. And, you know, I think 45 states reported a shortage in special education teaching. So clearly, we have a challenge, and we have to–if we do what we’ve done, we’re going to get what we’ve gotten. We have to do a better job ensuring that our schools have the resources.

When I talk about better working conditions, you know, ABCs, better working conditions mean that schools are adequately staffed. If I’m a special education teacher working with a student that has developmental delays or significant, you know, emotional needs or behavioral needs and I don’t have adequate social workers, school counselors, school psychologists, or a team of climate specialists that could help, paraeducators that could help assist for transitions, then a lot of it is going to fall on the special education teacher. And it’s going to be very difficult with caseloads, in some cases, over 30 students, for a special education teacher, for them to meet that. That’s why many of them are leaving.

So, you know, you can’t look at the special education teacher, retaining a special education teacher in silo. The conditions in working and supporting students has to be looked at holistically. That means we have adequate resources, we have enough personnel to address the needs of the student, and we have reasonable caseloads so that the teachers could really go deep and support those students in whatever they need.

I think, you know, that’s specifically what I know and I’ve heard from teachers, not only in my role as a former school principal but in role as Secretary as I travel the country.

MS. JOHNSON: Well, let’s talk a little bit about success in the future, right? We’ve talked about kind of the current state of affairs, but let’s talk about what success looks like. Are there states or school districts that have come up with solutions that could be a blueprint that should be replicated and used as best practices for what success looks like in the future?

SEC. CARDONA: Well, I was in Clark County, Nevada, and I visited a classroom. And this was over two years ago, but it’s etched in my mind because the positive impact it left on me. There was a teacher that she’d been teaching maybe 25, close to 30 years. You can tell she loved what she did. She had about 15, 16 high school students who were thinking about a career in teaching, and then her class was a high school class that was giving those students credits at UNLV for their teaching program. So here we have these pre-service teachers who are excited, learning from a teacher that is talking about the profession in a way that really motivated them, giving these high school students an opportunity to go explore in elementary school or get some hours in before they graduate high school. That’s exciting.

And then I’m going to get very personal here. My daughter, over the last six months, made the decision to become a special education teacher. She just graduated high school, and she’s committed to serving students with disabilities for the rest of her career. And how did she get so excited about that? She participated in a summer program for students with disabilities, and she just felt a calling.

So I think the more we can give students, high school students exposure to these programmings, the more we can help create communities in our schools where all students feel connected, the more we can give our high school students opportunities to see what options exist, and then provide mentorship and support. I think we’re going to be on the up and up, but we have to be serious about ensuring that our schools have the resources that they need and that we’re supporting our educators for the great work that they do.

MS. JOHNSON: So what advice did you give your daughter when she said she wanted to go into this field?

SEC. CARDONA: I was thrilled. I was really honored. I mean, you know, we go into this profession to help kids. We go into this profession to make our community better, and, you know, one of the things she said, half-jokingly, is like, “Papi, the salary of this is going to be different than some of the other options that I have.” And I promised her I was working on it, but, you know, the reality is she recognizes that it’s an extension of who she is as a person. And that’s what I got into the profession for, too, because I wanted to help my community. I wanted to help my kids. But because of that, we still have the responsibility to make sure that it’s a profession that is competitive.

You know, I’ll tell you, Akilah, we’re working really hard to create pathways for students into college and career, and there are many high-skilled, high-paying careers that are available to students where you may not need a four-year degree, but you can make, you know, $70,000 a year starting, $75,000 a year starting, and then you continue with your education. You can make well over six figures, you know, in a span of five, six years.

So if we’re serious about lifting the teaching profession, we have to make the career competitive. The days of paying teachers $38,000 a year to start and having a very slow scale up and having teachers then pay another $30,000 for a master’s degree or continue paying for their education, we got to do better.

One thing we did that I’m really proud of is we really pushed for apprenticeships. When I started as Secretary, there were zero states that had teacher apprenticeships. Basically, we pay your student teachers in teacher apprenticeships. What other profession expects you to go into it working for free for four months? In teaching, we normalize that.

So we have teacher apprenticeships where you earn while you learn in close to 40 states now. So we’re proud of that progress. We want to see that across the country. Those are some of the things that we’re doing to really elevate the profession and show the respect that it deserves.

MS. JOHNSON: I think that’s a wonderful place to leave this conversation, unfortunately, because I could talk to you about this all day long. Congratulations to your daughter. Like, round of applause. I think that is an accomplishment to graduate from high school–

MS. JOHNSON: –and already kind of know what your future holds for you or what it is that you want to do.

So again, thank you so much for joining me today and making the time to speak with us.

SEC. CARDONA: It’s great to be with you. Thank you.

MS. JOHNSON: And for those of you watching, don’t go anywhere. Our program will continue in just a few minutes.

MR. BORZYKOWSKI: I’m Bryan Borzykowski. When it comes to education, disability rights are often put on the back burner, leaving students and educators with disabilities and special education teachers, more generally, left behind. Many of the issues that have held those with disabilities back in school, whether it’s a need for more support for teachers or additional resources for students, have only been exacerbated since the pandemic. In fact, the National Education Association says that when it comes to disability rights, we’re in a crisis. What are the challenges to making education more accessible for people with disabilities, and what is the NEA doing to help tackle these important issues? Becky Pringle, president of the National Education Association, joins me now to explain. Becky, thanks for being here.

MS. PRINGLE: It’s good to be with you.

MR. BORZYKOWSKI: Becky, why is education in a crisis when it comes to disability rights?

MS. PRINGLE: The National Education Association has been fighting for disability rights since the passage of the ADA and the IDEA for decades, but when we think about the crisis we’re in right now, the pandemic, just like everything else, made it worse. The gaps that have existed grew wider, and we know that it is absolutely essential that we provide the funding, the resources, the supports, not only for our students with disabilities, but also for our educators with disabilities.

We have been fighting for inclusion and accommodations and those extra supports that ensure that all of our students, regardless of their zip code, regardless of their economic status or their race or their ability, that they have what they need when they need it. And we know that that fight must continue, because we have to ensure that all of our students, everyone, has the access and opportunity and the resources to live into their brilliance.

MR. BORZYKOWSKI: What are the primary challenges to making the education environment more accessible for people with disabilities?

MS. PRINGLE: We know that whether the disability is seen or unseen, we need to center the voices of our students themselves and our educators with disabilities as well. We need to listen to them, to have them help us understand where those gaps are, what they need, and what works.

We know that inclusion in all of the opportunities that our students have available, we need to ensure that we make the accommodations for their students.

We also know that our students with disabilities and our educators with disabilities are addressing additional issues around stress, and we need to ensure that we have the mental health supports, that we have the resources, that we do whatever accommodations we must in terms of school buildings so they can have full access to the variety of learning experience that we’re providing for all students.

MR. BORZYKOWSKI: What protections do students and educators with disabilities have under the Americans with Disabilities Act and the Individuals with Disabilities Act?

MS. PRINGLE: With the passage of both of those acts, first of all, it is absolutely essential that we acknowledge that we have students with disabilities and educators with disabilities in our schools and in our communities. And in acknowledging that, then we need to learn more. We all need to continue our journey of awareness and education so we understand ableism, we understand what the needs are.

We know that with legal–with legislation being passed, that helps provide those additional resources. That helps ensure or at least try to ensure that schools and communities are held accountable for making the resources and accommodations available. And so the ADA and the IDA do those things, specifically IDA, as we think about making sure that parents are involved and educators involved and students themselves are involved in developing the individual education programs for our students, that that is assured, regardless of what school they’re in, that those resources are provided to do what we need to do for the individual needs of our students.

MR. BORZYKOWSKI: One of the big issues that, you know, the NEA has talked about before is retention issues amongst special education teachers. Can you talk a bit about how covid impacted those retention issues, and how is NEA and its affiliates addressing this challenge?

MS. PRINGLE: Retention as well as recruitment has been a chronic issue, and the NEA has been following the unfortunate decline in the number of students in college who are making the choice to go into education writ large but specifically into special education.

But the pandemic, again, made that worse. Not only are educators, all educators, finding that they have additional responsibilities that are making their jobs even more difficult, we know that with our special education students, those gaps and those–and the resources that they need have grown much, much larger.

And so as we think about retention, we dig into that and we’ve asked educators themselves why, why are they leaving the profession. The NEA did a survey, and we found that 55 percent of our educators were planning on leaving the profession, particularly among special educators. What they said was what they’ve always said, that they need to have a salary that reflects the important work they do so they don’t have to work two and three jobs, particularly our special educators who already have additional responsibilities after school hours. They said they need the professional respect and the opportunity and the autonomy to make the teaching and learning decisions that are best for their students, particularly the students with disabilities. And then they need more of them. They need more teachers and counselors and support professionals, paraprofessionals who are trained in working with our special education students. Those are the things that we have to address, not only to retain educators, but to recruit them. Our students need to see that we are addressing these issues so when they come into the profession, they are provided with the resources and supports they need to be the professionals that they want to be.

MR. BORZYKOWSKI: We just have about 30 seconds left. I just–what else do you want to share about the importance of uplifting disability rights and inclusion?

MS. PRINGLE: It is so important for everyone to understand that this is our shared responsibility so that when we say every student, we actually mean every student, and that includes our students with disabilities. So we can’t do it alone as educators. It is important for us to partner with other organizations that are working on these issues.

At the NEA, we partner with the Ford Foundation, and they have allowed us to actually issue grants to educators who are advocating for issues around making sure that all of our students and educators with disabilities have what they need and what they deserve. So we need to partner with other organizations. We need to advocate. We need to ensure that we are providing the resources that are necessary for our students and our educators with disabilities.

MR. BORZYKOWSKI: And just finally, if people want to learn more about the NEA, where can they go?

MS. PRINGLE: Please go to NEA.org/disabilities, where there are resources for parents, for students, for educators, for partners, and that site will not only allow them to address the issues of students with disabilities, but to actually advocate with us on advancing things like public loan forgiveness, which we’re working collectively with the Biden administration on, on addressing to deal with the retention issues. But it will also allow them to take action so that we can meet the needs of our students and educators with disabilities.

MR. BORZYKOWSKI: Great. Becky, we will leave it there. Thank you so much for being here.

MR. BORZYKOWSKI: And now we’ll send it back to The Washington Post.

MS. JOHNSON: Hello and welcome back. For those of you just joining me, I’m Akilah Johnson, health disparities reporter at The Post.

Here to continue the conversation about disability rights in schools are Rebecca Cokley and Dr. Jacqueline Rodriguez. Rebecca, Jacqueline, thanks so much for joining me today.

DR. RODRIGUEZ: So great to be here.

MS. COKLEY: Thank you so much for having us.

Two redheads on the same call. When does this ever happen?

MS. COKLEY: Moment of personal pride.

MS. JOHNSON: And I have dyed hair. My hair is wine color–

MS. COKLEY: We got you. We’ll claim you. You’re one of us.

MS. JOHNSON: So let’s go ahead, and Rebecca, I want to jump in and start with you. And I want to continue part of the conversation that you saw earlier when I was in discussion with Secretary Cardona, and we were talking about the pandemic and the way the pandemic made the teacher shortage worse, specifically for students with disabilities. You know, let’s talk about the pandemic, and what were the realities that you saw that were made more difficult for students that have disabilities?

MS. COKLEY: Thank you so much. It’s a great question. I think we often still forget that the pandemic is a mass disabling event, easily the most profound mass disabling event since the Vietnam War in all likelihood, and so the ramifications of the pandemic are going to last for decades. And we’re going to see those ramifications spin out in our classrooms, just like in our workplaces, just like in our homes.

We know that over 44 percent of parents of students with disabilities reported that they felt like their kid’s legal right to an accessible and equitable education was largely abandoned during that time. That’s a shout out to Understood that works on these issues.

We know that there are states, including places like Oregon, that are actively still trying to push back on the requirement to include students with disabilities in public school on this side of the pandemic.

You know, we know that there were students that received as little as five to ten hours of instructional time per week, and honestly, back in 2020, one of the things that we–a number of us advocates had recommended as part of candidate platforms that were running for office was the creation of an emergency fund for IDEA in case there was an emergency like a pandemic or a tornado impacting a school so that schools could get additional resources to be able to supplement the services for students with disabilities so they didn’t fall behind.

I’m also a mom of three kids, two of whom have 504 plans, and I had a 504 plan in school. And I can tell you that none of our kids are okay, but kids with disabilities are significantly even more impacted. And we should also note the fact that there are more kids with disabilities as a result of the pandemic, whether living with long covid, living with trauma, living with grief, that should be able to access the supports that they’re promised by civil rights law to ensure–

MS. COKLEY: –that they receive a free and appropriate public education.

MS. JOHNSON: So for folks who don’t know, what’s a 504 plan? Is that an IEP?

MS. COKLEY: A 504 plan is different than an IEP. A 504 plan is about physical access to the space, not shifting or accommodating the terms of the curriculum, but whether how do you shift the structure of a school building or a classroom or the actual physical accommodations that a student uses to be able to access the learning environment. And so it falls under the Rehabilitation Act as opposed to the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act.

MS. JOHNSON: Got it. Thanks for that clarification.

Jacqueline, in that intro video, you say that disability–the disability rights movement is the civil rights movement of our generation. How do you see that manifesting? I want to talk in K-12 classrooms, but also college campuses, if you don’t mind.

MS. JOHNSON: The education spectrum, so to speak.

DR. RODRIGUEZ: Oh, yeah. I want to first plus-one what Becca already communicated to you. I totally agree with what we’re thinking about when it comes to the disability rights movement, and she said something in the intro video that I think is the perfect moment in that there is no issue that is happening on this planet that doesn’t disproportionately impact people with disabilities, and in that same case, that doesn’t have an intersectional impact across so many different identities for kids and with young people with disabilities.

And so when I think about this generation and how they grew up in what was, in education terms, the mainstreaming timeline that moved into the inclusion timeline and have now started to not only reckon but appropriate the term “disabled” and talk about themselves and recognize that they are an identity-first person and language, that’s when I think about this movement being so impactful because we have an entire generation of people who are in the seat to call the shots for themselves.

So you mentioned earlier, for example, how important it is with the Secretary as well as with Rebecca to have people with disabilities in positions that they can affirm and have agency over the supports they receive, the education they’re receiving, the kind of instruction and curriculum that they’re having access to. And that’s why I’ve always said, like, this is the moment. The sense of urgency is right now, because we do have a generation of people who are in the best position possible to advocate and have their own agency over those pieces and to include the fact that if we involve individuals in the K-12 system in creating their IEPs with their educators at a developmentally appropriate age where they are at the table in a seat directly communicating with the people who are most involved in providing that equal access and opportunity to free and appropriate public ed, then we have an entire generation of people who will go out into the world and then advocate for themselves in the workplace, in postsecondary environments, whether it’s vo-tech, two-year community colleges, four-year institutions, graduate school.

You know, NCLD has an entire group, the Young Adult Leadership Council, of 18 to, sometimes, 26 and 30-year-olds who advocate for themselves and on behalf of our organization, and what they’ve always said is if you give us agency, we will communicate to you what it is that we need, not just to sustain ourselves but to thrive.

MS. JOHNSON: You know, you mentioned something when talking about kind of language and reclaiming language, and I want to lean in a little bit on that, because I think it is an important part of the conversation–

DR. RODRIGUEZ: Absolutely.

MS. JOHNSON: –that we don’t really talk about and I think important part of lots of conversations when we talk about, you know, communities that maybe are outside of the mainstream, shall we say. And so let’s lean into a little bit about some of this reclaiming of language and what that means to have agency.

And so, Rebecca, I want you to jump into this conversation as well in terms of what does that mean and folks are talking, right, as we–special needs, disabled, other-ly abled. All right? So when you are inviting people to sit at the table with you, we want to make sure we’re doing it in a way which you’re also not offending them and they’re like I don’t know if I want to be at that table. So what are some of the–like, how should we begin to think about how we enter those conversations to make sure that folks do have a seat at the table and we’re focusing on those A and D, right, agency and diversity of voices and thoughts?

MS. COKLEY: Absolutely. I think the first thing is asking people how they want to identify.

I also think it’s important to notice that every euphemism for disability has come out of largely the education space or the family leadership space. It’s called the Americans with Disabilities Act. It’s called the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act. We don’t have special needs. I don’t have special abilities. Last time I checked, I can’t teleport. If I could, it would make managing luggage a lot easier. But we continue to use this language because non-disabled people are uncomfortable talking about disability, and that’s not our problem. That’s non-disabled people’s problem.

And so, I mean, I literally in working in previous roles with candidates running for office, I would actually make them sit in Wonder Woman stance and say the word “disability” and talk about people with disabilities until they became comfortable with it. I think in using euphemisms, we fundamentally disconnect students with disabilities from their civil rights. They may not know that they have a disability. They may not know that after they go to high school and graduate and go to college that their mom is not going to be there for them managing their accommodations process, because they’ve never been told that they’re disabled. You know, I think the other piece of it that’s really important is the fact that even in how we talk about special education and teachers working in special education, it’s often grounded in pity and charity instead of innovation, where the reality is there is not a single innovation in the field of public education today that is applied to all students that does not have its roots in the education of students with disabilities and has been Columbused by modern infrastructure. It’s like, “Oh, we discovered this thing. It’s called an IEP, but we’re not going to call it that for non-disabled people. We’ll call it an individualized learning plan,” so they’re not the same thing even though they’re identical. And we look at that, and we’re like that’s another thing that came from the disability space.

It’s the curb-cut effect. It’s just like captioning or iPods, all of this technology that has been mainstreamed for use by non-disabled people that has its roots in education for students with disabilities, but then why don’t we hold up educators for students with disabilities as the real innovators in our public schools? Why don’t we talk about special education as the hub for innovation that it actually is?

MS. JOHNSON: So, Jacqueline, you serve as the CEO of the National Center for Learning Disabilities. Explain what your organization does. Are we talking about hubs for innovation? Are we talking about some of these things that, you know, Rebecca just mentioned?

DR. RODRIGUEZ: Absolutely, we are, and I’m just so thrilled that we’re on this together because I cannot emphasize what Rebecca just mentioned enough. She’s 100 percent correct in that every innovation that has come out of the public school system has begun and has its roots in decades of research in the special education literature. Science of reading, the science of math, this is coming from special education research on what is good teaching and good practice and what we have demonstrated evidence that works for all kids.

There’s this statement on rising tides lifts all boats, and that is 100 percent correct. When we think about artificial intelligence, when we think about the type of facilitated instruction that we’re providing in the science of reading and math, et cetera, those are things that are going to impact exponentially. Students who are receiving–they’re not special education students–they are receiving services through a special education department, but they are also going to help all kids in the classroom.

And so the National Center for Learning Disabilities, in that same vein, helps do that same type of advocacy. We do the same kind of programming, and we do what I would consider is bold, audacious, never-been-done research in this field that really helps educators and policymakers better understand the circumstances of learning disabilities and the co-occurring disability and disorders that often find themselves with an LD. For example, so many kids, as we’ve just mentioned, post-pandemic have a learning disability, and they have anxiety, and they have trauma, and they have behavioral needs that require additional supports. And so our organization has been for 47 years now endeavoring the need for all educators to be fully prepared and profession-ready to meet the needs of kids with disabilities in the classroom.

MS. JOHNSON: You know, you both are talking about the pandemic, and I want to kind of stick on that trend for a minute, but, you know, Rebecca, you mentioned something that I have heard myself when I report on long covid about the pandemic being a mass disabling event. And some of the misunderstanding around the results of that, what it means to have long covid, particularly for students in school, you know, “Oh, you’re just being lazy,” or “You’re unfocused.” And there’s a whole host of reasons and rationales why this is happening that have to do with, you know, having long covid and having–and suffering the repercussions of being infected by covid.

And so what I’m wondering is, if we think about the pandemic and it’s–how did it shift the ability for students with disabilities to access their education materials? Right? We’ve talked about iPods. We’ve talked about closed captioning. We’ve talked about some of those things, but how did the pandemic shift people’s ability to access the education materials that they need and that they are supposed to have access to? Right? Not that just they need, but that they that they fundamentally have a “right” to, I guess, is the word that I’m trying to say. Jacqueline, how did you see that shift happen? And then we’ll get to you, Rebecca.

DR. RODRIGUEZ: So one thing that I think was interesting around covid is it almost opened a door for people to start saying yes as opposed to start saying no. No, we can’t do these things. No, that’s not possible. No, that’s not an accessible feature. And then all of a sudden, when push came to shove and we recognized that students needed not only access and opportunity, but they needed high-quality instruction during a period of significant trauma, we were able to say yes to a number of things that in the school systems we just haven’t had access to in the past.

So for example, at the University of Kansas, there was an entire center focused on what does it look like for high-quality online instruction to meet the kids–a student–to meet the needs of kids who have disabilities. We saw students have one-on-one instruction. We also saw them receive instruction outside when necessary, but I also don’t want to pretend that that necessarily was successful. And I don’t think it was at the behest of teachers. I think it was because we had not prepared educators before covid to meet these types of needs in these types of settings, and I think teachers did what was a Herculean lift in an effort to meet the needs of kids who were in their classrooms. And yet we saw falling behind of not only curricular aspects but also test scores that we saw and social-emotional well-being.

And so I just want to end on the fact that I think that the teaching profession is the most important profession on the planet, and I don’t want to point the finger at the profession for not meeting the needs of kids when I think we didn’t prepare everybody for what we didn’t know was going to come.

Rebecca, do you want to jump in? Have some thoughts?

MS. COKLEY: Yeah. I think this is also why the data piece is so important. You know, my kids just finished standardized testing, and they were like, “Ooh, testing.” And I said to them, you know, I think one of the reasons that the testing really matters right now is because we’re actually able to see how our kids, specifically kids with disabilities, are catching up and what are the supports and services that our schools and our students still need to get them where they need to be. And I said, you know, this is more about holding the system accountable than how we evaluate you as individualized learners. And so I do think the continuing piece around looking at the data is going to be critical.

I think there’s one other thing about the pandemic that we haven’t really talked about, which is, you know, we saw data in the workforce talking about how specifically women of color preferred working from home because they found that they were less likely to be subjected to microaggressions and actions of structural white supremacy and discrimination. And I think one of the things that we actually saw through the pandemic was that we didn’t have kids with disabilities secluded or restrained, and we know that seclusion and restraint is disproportionately used against students with disabilities and specifically students of color with disabilities.

And, you know, it will be really interesting to me as we continue to move forward from this point looking at how the disproportionality rule has been put into effect at the Department and looking at how are we going to–like, what is the discipline rates around students of color with disabilities as we continue to get kids with disabilities back into school? Are we going to see more folks identified as having specific impairments and being able to access special education services? Are we going to see more kids being segregated as a result of that being pulled out of class, and, you know, how are those incidents and the duration of those incidents, the type of disciplinary actions that are taken against students of color with disabilities–what is that data going to look like as we continue to be–move forward? Because let’s also be real and acknowledge the fact that in no setting is it ever okay for kids with disabilities to be physically or chemically restrained in order to access the learning environment.

And I think, you know, whereas some kids really thrived during the pandemic, some didn’t. Just like where individual people, some of us thrived working from home. Some of us didn’t. Just the continued sort of ripple effect of covid is going to be something that we’re going to be seeing, and we have the opportunity to learn from for decades to come.

MS. JOHNSON: You know, Rebecca, you’re at the Ford Foundation. Talk a little bit about the work that you’re doing there, and how does it intersect with the classroom? As you’re talking about data, is this something that kind of comes into play in your in your day-to-day at the Ford Foundation?

MS. COKLEY: Absolutely. So I have the pleasure of being the first U.S. disability rights program officer at any major foundation. By the end of this year, we’ll have moved over $60 million over the last three years to disability rights and justice organizations.

Our focus specifically is on economic inequality and disability, and so why is it that people with disabilities have to go through so many hoops and are so regulated, in fact, to keep them poor? Why is it that we continue to perpetuate a sub-minimum wage where people with disabilities get as little as $2.15 a week? Why is it that during a time of heightened inflation, people with disabilities on certain programs can’t have more than $2,000 in a bank account without losing their health care? Why is it people with disabilities can’t get married without losing their health care? It is–the number of regulations we have around the lives of disabled people are just completely ridiculous and are set up in such a way that keep us poor, and we actually see it really starts honestly in the classroom.

I mean, when you look at the need for early intervention services for students with disabilities, specifically IDEA Part C right now, which is the early childhood piece, it’s only serving a small fraction of infants and toddlers that would benefit from it, and access is even lower for families of color. And then when, you know, you look at the fact that disability and poverty are essentially an ouroboros, they are, you know, causes and consequences of each other.

And so when it comes to long covid and education, you know, places that we’re really looking and we have invested is specifically in organizations like the Myalgic Encephalomyelitis Action Network, ME/CFS. The ME Action Network is working to help support people living with long covid, as well as the American Association of People with Disabilities has a program specifically working with students and faculty with disabilities on college campuses on making those college campuses more inclusive for people with disabilities, whether students or faculty. And also, we support, obviously, this work, this phenomenal work that the NEA is doing.

MS. JOHNSON: So we’ve got about a minute left, and I’d like to end kind of with an audience question. And it is–so it is from Valerie from Oregon–I think we mentioned Oregon–asked, “What can be done to promote less separation between general education and special education?” And so I would like to know, Jacqueline, what do you have to think about that?

DR. RODRIGUEZ: So my first thought is to repeat what President Obama said in 2010 and what Secretary Cardona just mentioned on the call which is every kid with a disability is a general education student first, and if we’re not preparing general educators in a manner in which they can meet the needs of every single student in their classroom, then we’re not doing them a service, and we’re definitely doing a disservice to kids with disabilities in the classroom.

So I would herald the dual enrollment, the co-teaching, the insurance that there is a wraparound and community support between general, special ed, school counselors, school psychologists, parents, families, and caregivers. There must be a loop of communication between all of the people that are supporting every single student and the recognition that the proponents of our students with disabilities are in the general ed setting more often than not, and if we’re not preparing that setting for them, they’re not on their little shoulders meant to prepare themselves for that setting.

MS. JOHNSON: Absolutely. Rebecca, I’ll let you have last word, 30 seconds to answer–

MS. COKLEY: What I would–

MS. JOHNSON: –the question for you.

MS. COKLEY: What I would say is we actually need to understand that teachers teaching in special education are actually specialists. They have the same education as general educators, but they have an actual bonus level of education when it comes to educating students with disabilities. So they’re actually more qualified and have additional levels of education than your standard gen ed teacher, but yet gen ed teachers can have as little as five hours to eight hours to even like almost the same level of education, frankly, as law enforcement has on meeting the needs of people with disabilities, which is kind of scary if you think about it, meeting the needs of students with disabilities.

And so to me, it’s why we actually need to elevate the leadership of teachers who are specialized teaching students with disabilities and create more opportunities for the general educators to learn from them as opposed to it always being a reverse hierarchy.

MS. JOHNSON: Absolutely. We’re going to have to leave it there. I feel like I could talk to the two of you for many more minutes and possibly hours about this very important topic. So thank you so much for joining me here today

DR. RODRIGUEZ: Thank you. Let’s do this again.

MS. COKLEY: Thank you. Absolutely.

MS. JOHNSON: And thanks to all of you for watching. To learn more about our upcoming programs, please go to WashingtonpPostLive.com. Again, I’m Akilah Johnson. Thank you so much.

The Communist Party-led Chinese government, which rules Tibet as an autonomous region, has insisted that it holds the power to effectively choose the Dalai Lama’s successor, a claim rejected by most Tibetans.

Tibet, a deeply religious Buddhist region, has traditionally used the practice of reincarnation to anoint its political leader. The Dalai Lama, or a committee of senior monks, is expected to choose a successor close to his death who is believed to be his reincarnation.

The Dalai Lama, who turns 89 in July, has long said that he may not be reincarnated at all, which would deny legitimacy to whomever Beijing chooses to be his successor in the eyes of many Tibetans.

The U.S. delegation, which was led by House Foreign Affairs Committee Chairman Michael McCaul (R-Tex.) and included former House speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), told reporters Wednesday that U.S. support for Tibet remains steadfast and urged Beijing to engage in “unconditional dialogue” with the Dalai Lama.

The legislators also presented to the Dalai Lama, at his home in Dharamshala, a framed copy of the Resolve Tibet Act that was passed by Congress last week and represents a shift in U.S. policy toward Tibet. It states that Washington believes the dispute between Tibet and China remains unresolved in accordance with international law, and it rejects China’s claim that the Tibet issue is an internal matter and that Tibet has been part of Chinese territory since “ancient times.” President Biden is expected to sign the bill into law.

For decades, official U.S. policy has recognized Tibet as part of China.

“It is still my hope that one day the Dalai Lama and his people will return to Tibet in peace,” McCaul told reporters following the meeting, according to Reuters. He added that the United States “will not let” Beijing play a role in the selection of the Dalai Lama’s successor.

The Chinese government, which considers the Dalai Lama a separatist, asked the United States to stop meddling in Xizang — the Chinese name for Tibet — while its state media called the trip a U.S. effort to “contain” China.

“Xizang affairs are China’s internal affairs,” Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Lin Jian said Thursday ahead of the meeting. “We urge the U.S. to clearly see the sensitivity and importance of Xizang-related issues … and stop sending out wrong signals to the world.”

Lobsang Gyatso Sither, a member of the Tibetan Parliament in Exile and director of technology at the Tibet Action Institute, a Tibetan advocacy group, said the presentation of the Resolve Tibet Act, which would challenge Chinese claims that Tibet has long been part of China, was significant and showed that the United States is no longer cowed by the Chinese government’s warnings and outrage.

“This is China’s playbook, and the world has wisened to it,” he said. “This no longer works.”

Indian officials did not comment on the visit, but the U.S. delegation’s trip was notable given that foreign officials visiting India are usually not permitted to address the media, particularly on political or human rights issues deemed sensitive by the New Delhi government. Pelosi has addressed public audiences on previous visits to Dharamshala, including a visit in 2017, when she called for an “autonomous, authentic” Tibet. But she and other U.S. lawmakers went further on this visit in calling for Tibetan self-determination.

“The People’s Republic of China must respect the rights of the Tibetan people under international law, including their right to self-determination,” Rep. Jim McGovern (D-Mass.) said in a speech. “This is about basic human dignity.”

“The comments on self-determination appear to be a major departure, and what that exactly means needs to be studied,” said Srikanth Kondapalli, an expert on India-China relations at Jawaharlal Nehru University. He added that India tends to be “cautious” about the Tibet issue compared to Washington because of its ongoing border dispute with China, which takes place precisely in the Himalayan highlands once controlled by the ancient Tibetan kingdom.

“One of the issues India is concerned about is that the fallout over the territorial dispute and the military clashes,” Kondapalli said. “The U.S. doesn’t have a border with Tibet and China. It’s a luxury the United States has, unlike India.”

Following their Dharamshala visit, the U.S. delegation also held meetings in New Delhi with Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi and External Affairs Minister S. Jaishankar and discussed the bilateral strategic relationship.