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An Illustrated Guide to Trump’s Conflict of Interest Risks

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An Illustrated Guide to Trump’s Conflict of Interest Risks

During his first administration, President-elect Donald J. Trump’s global business empire created an unprecedented number of conflicts of interest for a sitting president. Ethics experts worried that opportunists could try to curry favor by booking stays at Mr. Trump’s network of hotels, golf clubs and other properties.

Their predictions bore out: Foreign governments and lobbyists spent lavishly at his Washington hotel, which has since been sold, as well as at his Mar-a-Lago resort and other properties. The federal government itself also became an awkward customer by renting millions of dollars’ worth of rooms at his hotels and clubs.

Those concerns now seem almost quaint in light of some of Mr. Trump’s more recent business ventures. They include a publicly traded company, a cryptocurrency venture, new overseas real estate deals involving state-affiliated entities and numerous branding and licensing deals.

The new additions to Mr. Trump’s portfolio could provide more direct avenues for those wishing to influence a sitting president or even to try to extort him, according to some outside ethics lawyers.

Some of the new international real estate deals are among the most potentially worrisome.

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Several of Mr. Trump’s recent real estate projects have connections to foreign governments in the Middle East, raising concerns that Mr. Trump’s financial interests could influence foreign policy.

Many of the contracts that the Trump family has negotiated overseas since Mr. Trump left office are so-called branding deals. The Trump family sells its name to international developers that build residential and resort complexes and sell luxury units at a premium, they hope, based on Mr. Trump’s perceived star power.

One of the developments, a luxury hotel and golf course complex in the Middle Eastern nation of Oman, is being built on land owned by the country’s government. That project and three others are proceeding in partnership with a subsidiary of a Saudi-based real estate company, Dar Al Arkan, which has close ties with the Saudi government. Saudi Arabia has a long list of pressing matters before the United States, including requests to buy F-35 fighter jets and gain access to nuclear power technology.

Oman also plays an important role in the Middle East, often serving as a middleman between the United States and Iran.

It is extremely unusual, historians say, for any U.S. president to be involved in family business deals with a foreign government nexus at the same time as he is managing foreign policy matters that affect that same nation.

A new cryptocurrency business introduces an entirely different set of ethics concerns.

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Last fall, the Trump family helped launch World Liberty Financial, a platform for investors to borrow and lend using cryptocurrencies. The Trump family members are not owners or officers in the company, but they have an agreement to be paid for helping promote it.

After getting off to a rocky start, the company got a boost in the form of a $30 million token purchase by Justin Sun, a cryptocurrency executive who has been targeted by the Securities and Exchange Commission on fraud claims unrelated to World Liberty Financial. Mr. Sun has moved to dismiss the case.

As of November, World Liberty claimed to have at least 20,000 token holders who have bought a stake in what the company calls a “platform inspired by Donald J. Trump.” These purchases were made even though the tokens — at least for now — cannot be resold, meaning they have no immediate value to the buyers.

But the purchases, made by individuals whose names are not public, should generate tens of millions of dollars in payments to the Trump family, according to company filings.

Mr. Trump has already seen the effect he can have on the cryptocurrency market. When he announced his pick for S.E.C. chairman, the crypto advocate and lawyer Paul Atkins, Bitcoin value surged above $100,000 for the first time in its history. Mr. Trump immediately moved to claim credit for the milestone. “CONGRATULATIONS BITCOINERS!!! $100,000!!! YOU’RE WELCOME!!! Together, we will Make America Great Again!,” he wrote on his social media platform, Truth Social.

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Mr. Trump himself, according to his 2024 financial disclosure, owned as much as $5 million worth of Ethereum, a token second only to Bitcoin in popularity. That cryptocurrency has also surged in value since the election.

The new leadership at the S.E.C. is likely to decide on rules that could significantly increase the value of Ethereum, Bitcoin and tokens at World Liberty Financial. They could also pave the way for the company to market its coins to a wider swath of the public,, which would potentially generate hundreds of millions of dollars in additional payouts to Mr. Trump and his family.

A publicly traded company presents another avenue for persuasion.

Last spring, Trump Media & Technology Group, which is the parent company of Truth Social and the president-elect’s single greatest source of wealth, went public. Buying company shares is another new way special interests could try to sway Mr. Trump, its largest shareholder.

For instance, corporations and others could buy shares in the company or advertise on Truth Social. And while foreigners are not allowed by law to make campaign contributions to Mr. Trump, there is no limit on their ability to buy large chunks of stock in his company, perhaps in an effort to intentionally push up the stock’s value and further enrich the Trump family. Mr. Trump did recently transfer his ownership stake in Trump Media to a trust controlled by his oldest son, Donald Trump Jr.

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As president, Mr. Trump will also be in a unique position to drive traffic — and ultimately revenue — to Truth Social, whose parent company has been struggling to make money.

He has an agreement with Truth Social to post certain types of content on Truth Social first, before posting to other platforms, like Elon Musk’s X.

Most news releases about cabinet picks and other appointments during the Trump-Vance transition have provided links to a corresponding Truth Social post.

Mr. Trump’s name is on an array of new items, some quite expensive.

Then there are the numerous new merchandise licensing deals, which may not give purchasers a direct line to attempt to influence geopolitics but certainly line Mr. Trump’s own pockets. Since leaving the White House, Mr. Trump has lent his name and image to dozens of products.

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  • Bibles and other books. A version of the Bible with Mr. Trump’s signature is available for $1,000.
  • fragrances. Several of these licensed perfumes and colognes bear golden likenesses of Mr. Trump.
  • Trump digital trading cards. Mr. Trump reported making more than $7 million for these “nonfungible tokens,” or NFTs, which depict Trump as a superhero, an astronaut and other characters
  • sneakers. “Trump 47 Crypto President Low Tops” and “Inauguration High-Tops” are among the dozens of styles for sale
  • watches. One model of watch bearing Mr. Trump’s name costs $100,000.
  • guitars. Prices start at $1,000 and go as high as $11,500 for an autographed guitar

The list of such products seems to be growing. It includes three recent books, the first of which relied largely on photos taken by White House photographers, which Mr. Trump repackaged and is now selling for as much as $500 a copy. Mr. Trump more recently has moved to selling Trump Digital Trading Cards, which brought in more than $7 million, according to his latest financial disclosure. He also has helped sell Bibles, earning a cut of the profits. It remains unclear if these merchandise sales benefiting Mr. Trump will continue while he is president.

Almost all of the real estate holdings and deals from Mr. Trump’s first term remain active.

Mr. Trump has an extensive network of assets that he held during his previous term and is carrying into his second, excluding several properties that have been sold since 2017.

In the United States, there are golf clubs and resorts

  • Mar-a-Lago. A membership at Mar-a-Lago currently costs $1 million, triple the price from 2017
  • Trump International West Palm Beach
  • Trump National Bedminster
  • Trump National Charlotte
  • Trump National Colts Neck
  • Trump National Doral. During his last term, Mr. Trump proposed hosting the Group of 7 summit at Doral.
  • Trump National Hudson Valley
  • Trump National Jupiter
  • Trump National Los Angeles
  • Trump National Washington, D.C.
  • Trump National Westchester
  • Trump National Philadelphia

and hotels and residential and commercial properties. Mr. Trump owns some in full or part; others use his name in exchange for a fee.

  • 40 Wall Street
  • Trump International Hotel & Tower Chicago
  • 6 East 57th Street
  • Trump Park Residences
  • Trump Tower. A three-story penthouse in Trump Tower was Mr. Trump’s primary residence for decades.
  • Trump Palace
  • Albemarle Estate
  • Estates at Trump National
  • 555 California Street
  • Trump International Hotel & Tower Las Vegas. Trump International Hotel & Tower, New York City
  • Trump Grande
  • 1290 Avenue of the Americas
  • Trump Towers Sunny Isles
  • Trump Park Avenue
  • Trump Plaza, New Rochelle, N.Y.
  • Park Tower Stamford
  • 610 Park Ave.
  • Trump Parc
  • Trump Parc East.

Overseas, Mr. Trump owns or has branding deals with more than a dozen properties that were also in play during his first administration.

  • Trump Tower Philippines
  • Trump Tower Kolkata
  • Several properties in South Korea
  • Trump Turnberry
  • Château des Palmiers
  • Trump International Golf Links & Hotel
  • Trump International Scotland
  • Trump Tower Punte Del Este
  • Trump International Golf Club & Resort, Lido, Indonesia
  • Trump International Golf Club & Resort, Bali, Indonesia
  • Trump World Golf Club
  • Trump International Golf Club Dubai
  • Trump Tower Mumbai
  • Trump Towers Delhi NCR
  • Trump Towers Pune
  • Trump Towers

And he continues to hold a stake in about half a dozen other assets.

  • Online store. The official retail website of the Trump Organization sells hundreds of Trump-branded products, from hats to wine glasses.
  • Retail store. The store is located in Trump Tower.
  • Aviation: private aircraft
  • Royalties. Mr. Trump still pulls in royalties from “The Apprentice” and books like “The Art of the Deal”
  • Trump International Realty
  • a real estate company.

Before the start of his first term, Mr. Trump made some attempts to distance himself from his businesses.

He said he would place his business holdings in a trust, but the trust was controlled by his two oldest sons instead of an independent entity, which is more the norm. He pledged that there would be “no new deals” by his company involving international real estate projects while he was in the White House.

This month, the Trump family issued an updated ethics pledge that revived many of the earlier promises with one key distinction: The Trump family intends to continue to do new international real estate deals, as long as the counterparties are not foreign governments themselves.

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Eric Trump, the family member most responsible for overseeing the Trump Organization and its new deals, said the family is committed to avoiding any transactions that exploit connections to the White House. The company has appointed a well-known outside ethics lawyer, a former federal prosecutor and corporate lawyer named William A. Burck, to review any new contracts worth more than $10 million. “The Trump Organization is dedicated to not just meeting but vastly exceeding its legal and ethical obligations during my father’s presidency,” Eric Trump said in a statement.

Legal questions loom.

Certain ethics lawyers have argued that some of Mr. Trump’s conflicts of interest are not only a problem, but that they also represent a violation of the so-called emoluments clause in the Constitution, which prohibits a president from certain payments from any foreign government. The president and vice president are not exempt from this provision, as they are from conflict of interest laws that require other senior federal officials to divest from companies that might benefit from their official actions.

Several lawsuits filed against Mr. Trump during his first term argued that he had violated the emoluments clause by accepting payments at the Trump hotel he then owned in Washington, among other business operations.

His first term ended before the federal court system could definitively rule on questions related to emoluments, although the courts did ultimately allow the cases to proceed, suggesting that it remained possible that the outcome could have been against Mr. Trump.

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But the clock ran out and the Supreme Court ruled that the cases were moot as soon as he left office. The legal fight would have to start all over again, but there is likely to be an allegation that the Trump Organization’s continued business deals through some of its subsidiaries with foreign governments is unconstitutional or illegal, these ethics lawyers said.

In the past 50 years, incoming U.S. presidents have voluntarily taken steps to disentangle themselves from any activities that could be perceived as a conflict of interest or moneymaking venture during their time in office.

Jimmy Carter turned over his peanut farm to a trust, which he learned after he left the White House was deeply in debt. Ronald Reagan announced within two weeks of his inauguration that he had sold off all of his investments, other than his ranch and another home, converting these holdings to cash that was then managed by an independent trustee. Lyndon B. Johnson and his wife put her Texas radio and television holdings in a trust.

But these issues have created questions before — a point Mr. Trump’s family and lawyer raised this month when they laid out Mr. Trump’s own ethics plan. When George Washington was president, the Trump lawyers noted, he continued to own a business that exported flour and cornmeal to Europe and the Caribbean. In the 1970s, Vice President Nelson Rockefeller maintained a stake in Standard Oil, which his grandfather founded.

In Mr. Trump’s case, questions about real or potential conflicts extend beyond the president-elect.

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His oldest son, Donald Trump Jr., announced recently that he is joining the venture capital firm 1789 Capital, which focuses on investing in conservative companies and could see its business boosted as a result of its ties to the first family. Mr. Trump’s son Barron is playing a role in World Liberty Financial, as are Donald Trump Jr. and Eric Trump, according to disclosure documents.

And Jared Kushner, the president-elect’s son-in-law, runs a private equity firm called Affinity Partners that has raised $4.5 billion, mostly from sovereign wealth funds of the oil-rich nations of Saudi Arabia, Qatar, the United Arab Emirates, based on relationships he built while in the White House during Mr. Trump’s first term. Mr. Kushner does not plan to return to the White House. But his ties to Mr. Trump will create new ethics concerns as he continues to make investments over the next four years, including luxury hotel deals in Albania and Serbia, where the governments there are his partners.

Most of these potential conflicts did not exist the first time Mr. Trump was in office. It all means these kinds of questions are only going to be more intense this White House term.

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Politics

How Trump Is Inspiring Wannabe Authoritarians Everywhere

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How Trump Is Inspiring Wannabe Authoritarians Everywhere

When President Joseph R. Biden Jr. convened democracy summits at the White House in 2021 and 2023, he pointedly disinvited President Recep Tayyip Erdogan of Turkey, a man he had once described an “autocrat” who deserved to be driven from office by voters.

On Tuesday, President Trump offered a much rosier assessment of the Turkish president, even as protesters filled the streets following the arrest of the mayor of Istanbul, Mr. Erdogan’s chief political rival.

“A good leader,” the president said of Mr. Erdogan during a meeting of his ambassadors at the White House. He made no mention of the arrest or the protests.

Since taking office 66 days ago, Mr. Trump has turned a central precept of American diplomacy on its head. He is embracing — rather than denouncing — fellow leaders who abandon democratic principles. The longstanding bipartisan effort to bolster democratic institutions around the globe has been replaced by a president who praises leaders who move toward autocracy.

And Mr. Trump’s own actions — taking revenge against his political rivals, attacking law firms, journalists and universities, and questioning the authority of the judiciary — are offering new models for democratically elected leaders in countries like Serbia and Israel who have already shown their willingness to push the boundaries of their own institutions.

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“There’s a great emboldening,” said Rosa Balfour, the Europe director for the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. “What Trump says reverberates strongly here. But also what the United States does not do. It does not punish or condemn any attempt to undermine rule of law or democracy. There are no repercussions.”

Jane Harman, a former member of Congress and former president of the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars, noted that Mr. Erdogan and other leaders around the world had been “drifting away” from democratic principles for years.

In 2016, a faction in Mr. Erdogan’s government attempted a coup to overthrow him. Since then, he has tightened control of the presidency by attacking the media, political opponents, the courts and other institutions.

“This has become a very different world, but I don’t think Trump started it, and I don’t think Trump is going to end it either,” Ms. Harman said. And she noted that in at least a few places, Mr. Trump’s return to power had prompted some voters to question the authoritarian leanings of candidates and parties.

“Think Germany,” she said, referring to recent elections in the country. “The far right has risen in popularity, but it didn’t win. And the backlash to Trump might have been part of the momentum that held it back.”

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Mr. Trump is not the first president to tolerate less-than-democratic actions from allies when they deemed it necessary.

Mr. Biden offered a fist-bump to Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, Saudi Arabia’s de facto ruler, even as he blamed him for the murder of the columnist Jamal Khashoggi. Mr. Biden also worked with Prime Minister Narendra Modi of India, who has increasingly cracked down on dissent in his country, and — at times — with Mr. Erdogan.

But Mr. Trump’s election has coincided with actions by elected leaders that appear to depart from the kind of democratic principles that America stood for.

In Israel, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu no longer needs to contend with Mr. Biden’s opposition to a long-planned overhaul of the courts, which many Israelis view as an attempt to control and politicize the judiciary. In 2023, Mr. Biden told reporters that Mr. Netanyahu “cannot continue down this road” of judicial changes.

Now, with Mr. Trump in office, the Israeli leader faces no such pressure. This month, he fired the chief of the country’s domestic intelligence agency, a move seen as undermining its independence. Later, the cabinet approved a vote of no confidence in the country’s attorney general, prompting fresh accusations that Mr. Netanyahu is curbing the independence of the justice system, purging officials he considers disloyal.

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On Thursday, Mr. Netanyahu’s allies in Parliament voted to give themselves more power over the selection of the country’s judges. The vote came after the prime minister gave a speech echoing Mr. Trump and saying that the action meant that “the deep state is in danger.”

“The U.S. is not going to put any pressure whatsoever on Netanyahu to respect the democratic institutions of his own country,” Ms. Balfour said. “Netanyahu feels that he has impunity in that respect.”

In Serbia, President Aleksandar Vucic has spent years attacking the media and other political opponents. Last month — as Mr. Trump dismantled the U.S. Agency for International Development — Mr. Vucic sent police to raid organizations in his country, some of which had received money from the now largely shuttered American agency.

Authorities in Mr. Vucic’s government cited Mr. Trump’s actions in the United States as justification for moving against the organizations, including the Centre for Research, Transparency and Accountability and Civic Initiatives. They quoted Elon Musk, the multibillionaire who is running the so-called Department of Government Efficiency, who claimed, without evidence, that USAID was a “criminal organization.”

Two weeks after the raids in Serbia, Donald Trump Jr., the president’s eldest son, traveled to Belgrade, the country’s capital, to interview Mr. Vucic for his podcast. In the interview, Mr. Vucic complained that he, like the American president, is opposed by “an entire liberal establishment from Washington and New York and L.A. going against you.” He said the raids of the nongovernmental organizations were designed to root out corruption and financial mismanagement.

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Mr. Trump Jr. fawned over Mr. Vucic, describing what he called “an embrace of common sense, an embrace of law and order, of a shared national sense of identity.” He criticized protesters angry about Mr. Vucic’s recent actions.

“I’m sure the media will cover them only one way,” Mr. Trump Jr. said. “And now there’s seemingly evidence that they are all tied in some form to the same left-wing actors here in America. That same propaganda machine.”

The president’s son is not the only one echoing his father’s language.

Last week, after Mr. Erdogan’s government jailed the mayor of Istanbul, one of Mr. Trump’s senior diplomatic envoys spoke positively about Turkey’s leader during an interview with the former Fox News host Tucker Carlson.

“Really transformational,” Steve Witkoff said of a recent telephone call between Mr. Trump and Mr. Erdogan. “There’s just a lot of good, positive news coming out of Turkey right now as a result of that conversation.”

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Ruth Ben-Ghiat, a professor of history at New York University, said Mr. Trump’s words and actions — and those of his surrogates — are being watched by other leaders. She said the president’s lack of condemnation of Mr. Erdogan following the arrest of the Istanbul mayor would have been noted by authoritarian-leaning presidents and prime ministers.

“The moves of Trump in this same direction,” she said, “embolden foreign leaders who know the U.S. is now an autocratic ally and there will be no consequences for repressive behavior.”

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Trump nominates former Arizona attorney general for US ambassador to Serbia

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Trump nominates former Arizona attorney general for US ambassador to Serbia

President Donald Trump announced Friday he had nominated former Arizona Attorney General Mark Brnovich to become the next U.S. ambassador to Serbia.

“Mark is a proud Veteran of the Army National Guard, and previously served as Attorney General for the Great State of Arizona,” Trump wrote in a Truth Social post.

“As the son of refugees who fled communism, Mark will be a strong advocate for Freedom, and always put AMERICA FIRST. Congratulations Mark!”

TRUMP NOMINATES GEORGIA STATE SEN. BRANDON BEACH FOR US TREASURER

Mark Brnovich was nominated to serve as the next U.S. ambassador to Serbia. (Fox News)

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Brnovich served as attorney general of Arizona from 2015 to 2023.

He is married to Susan Brnovich, a U.S. District Court judge in Arizona.

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Newsom calls the Democratic brand 'toxic' as he defends his podcast

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Newsom calls the Democratic brand 'toxic' as he defends his podcast

Since his podcast debuted in March, Gov. Gavin Newsom of California has flummoxed Democrats who fear that the politician they considered a liberal prizefighter is turning MAGA-friendly.

The rap against “This Is Gavin Newsom,” in which the governor spoke out against trans athletes competing in women’s sports and disavowed the gender-inclusive term “Latinx,” is that he doesn’t sound like the Newsom they know at all.

“What in God’s name is going on with Gavin Newsom?” asked CNN anchor Erin Burnett, quoting a headline criticizing the podcast, during a recent segment ripping the governor’s apparent shift.

“The country is trying to figure out how he went from progressive hero and governor of the most liberal state in the country to interviewing and spending time with MAGA favorites like Steve Bannon and Charlie Kirk.”

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The Democratic governor was also surprised, but by the response.

“I did what I said I was going to do. I mean, when I launched this, I said I was going to have, not debates with people I disagree with, I said we’re gonna have people on we disagree and agree with to have civil conversations to try to understand each other at this time of such polarization,” Newsom said in an interview with The Times on Friday. “And I said I was going to specifically meet with members of the MAGA movement. And then we did it and people were shocked.”

A common takeaway from the podcast is that Newsom is attempting to shape-shift into a moderate as he gears up to run for president in the aftermath of the Democratic Party’s disastrous 2024 election.

Newsom disputed that “exhausting” assumption, which he said others have attributed to actions for more than two decades. The governor offered his own blistering critique of his party to explain why he’s sitting down with controversial GOP figures now.

“Because our party’s getting our ass kicked,” Newsom said. “Because the Democratic Party brand is toxic. Because people don’t think we make any damn sense. They think we make noise. They don’t think we support them. You fill in the generic them. They don’t think we have their values. They think we’re elite. We talk down to people. We talk past people. They think we just think we’re smarter than other people, that we’re so judgmental and full of ourselves.”

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The governor paused to say he loves his party, but “we’ve lost our way” and he wants people to know he hears it.

“I think you do that by having people you disagree with [on the podcast] without being disagreeable.”

It’s not the first time the governor has disagreed with his fellow Democrats.

As speculation mounted about whether then-President Biden was fit to run for president last summer, Newsom called the chatter from his own party “unhelpful” and “unnecessary” as he encouraged Democrats to back the president. A year earlier, he scolded the Democratic Party for its passive response to Republicans and for its lack of an offensive political playbook.

Newsom created headlines across the country in the premiere episode of his podcast when he told Kirk, a conservative activist and Trump loyalist, that allowing transgender athletes to compete in women’s sports is “deeply unfair.” Newsom’s comments represented a clear break from progressives.

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The backlash from the left was swift. Newsom was accused of deserting his core LGBTQ+ constituency and flip-flopping after old social media posts surfaced with him expressing support for the California law signed by former Gov. Jerry Brown that gave trans students more rights in public schools, including the ability to compete in sports and use bathrooms based on their gender preference.

Newsom’s position aligned with 66% of American adults, who in a Pew Research survey in February said trans athletes should be required to compete on teams that match their sex assigned at birth.

The governor also was criticized for suggesting, in his podcast with Kirk, that no one in his office used the term “Latinx,” a gender neutral term, to describe Latinos, despite direct quotes of the governor that prove otherwise. A Pew poll from 2024 found that only 4% of Latinos describe themselves as “Latinx.”

Eric Jaye, the chief consultant for Newsom’s 2003 mayoral campaign, said the governor is an astute politician, though he disagreed with his decision to speak out against transgender athletes.

“San Francisco has produced many extraordinary politicians — Nancy Pelosi, Dianne Feinstein, Willie Brown, Kamala Harris — but in terms of the ability to adapt to changing political times and climes, Gavin Newsom’s head and shoulders above all of them,” Jaye said. “He’s deeply, deeply attuned to which way the political wind is blowing and he has so far shown an extraordinary ability to navigate changing political weather.”

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“Now the challenge is, the question will be, at what point does that stop seeming like someone adapted to changing times and start seeming inauthentic, if not outright fake?”

On Friday, Newsom said he understood why people might view his podcast as a departure from his liberal image, shaped largely by his groundbreaking support for gay marriage as mayor of San Francisco and as an advocate for universal healthcare.

But the governor said his politics has never fit into an “ideological prism.”

Anyone who knows him, he said, remembers when he was the “small business supervisor” in San Francisco, raging against the board for raising fees on business owners and championing “Care Not Cash,” a policy to take welfare checks from homeless people and use the savings to pay for treatment options.

“I’m open to argument,” Newsom said. “I’m interested in evidence. I have very strong values. I’m a progressive but I’m a pragmatic one, and that’s something that anyone who has followed me knows, and people that don’t, they’re learning a little bit about that now.”

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Still, Newsom always has been the main architect of his public image.

A wine entrepreneur allied with the business community, he ran as a moderate to win the mayor’s office in 2003 against a Green Party candidate. “Care Not Cash” was widely panned by progressives but helped seal his victory.

When Newsom set his sights on the biggest political prize in California in the 2018 governor’s race, he ran as a progressive advocate for single-payer healthcare and pledged to build more affordable housing.

Yet even as he effused his liberal platform, Newsom couldn’t shake criticism from his opponents that his positions were a mirage.

Former Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa, a moderate Democrat, accused Newsom of selling “snake oil” with his support for single-payer healthcare in order to win over the nurses union and progressives.

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Newsom delivered some of his campaign pledges in his first term as governor. He successfully advocated for universal preschool and state-sponsored healthcare coverage to all income-eligible Californians regardless of immigration status. He also paused death row executions.

The governor, who has a close relationship with the tech industry and counts Google founder Sergey Brin and Salesforce Chief Executive Marc Benioff as his friends, has shown more of his moderate side in his second term.

He drew criticism from truck drivers for rejecting their push to require more regulation of autonomous big rigs. He vetoed a marquee bill last year that would have required artificial intelligence developers to put safeguards on the technology. Newsom rebuffed Hollywood unions when he rejected a bill that would have allowed workers to receive unemployment benefits when on strike.

He made a show this year of saying he would veto a bill for a second time that sought to restrict the state prison system’s ability to coordinate with federal immigration authorities attempting to deport felons. He’s also rejected proposals to allow immigrants who are in the country illegally to participate in a subsidized home loan program and to allow undocumented students to work at public universities.

Lorena Gonzalez, president of the California Federation of Labor Unions, said she wasn’t shocked to see Newsom appear more moderate on the podcast.

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“He has always been more or less a tech bro from Northern California with the same kind of politics as we thought,” Gonzalez said.

Perhaps, she said, “He’s done playing liberal and now he’s just going to be himself.”

Steve Kawa, Newsom’s chief of staff as mayor, scoffed at the idea that Newsom has changed. He said the governor has always been interested in speaking to people on all sides of a policy idea. Politicians, like regular people, aren’t one-dimensional.

“Maybe he’s moderate on this issue,” Kawa said. “Maybe he’s progressive on this issue. I don’t think he looks at it in terms of under what column is this solution to make life better for the public and I can only be in this column.”

To criticism that he appears too comfortable talking to Bannon, a Trump campaign architect, and Kirk one day and Democrats such as Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz and commentator Ezra Klein the next, Newsom said he meets with people he disagrees with all the time. He mentioned his 90-minute sit-down with Trump in the Oval Office.

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“That’s called life,” Newsom said. “I don’t decide who my friends are on the basis of their politics. I’d never met Charlie Kirk. I’d never met Bannon, but I know people that think like them and they’re good parents and they’re good people, and I vehemently disagree with their politics and they’re Trumpers.”

The amicability he displayed in the podcast toward Republican figures whom Democrats perceive as villains doesn’t come as a surprise to people who have closely followed his career.

“He sounds evenhanded about the views of people that you would think he would find an anathema to his being. That’s because of how he is on a path of existence beyond politics and I think that’s reflected in the podcast,” said David McCuan, a professor of political science at Sonoma State University.

“He’s always lived a charmed life in terms of politics, but there’s also been more to him.”

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