Lifestyle
Why Jenny Slate sometimes feels like a 'terminal optimist' : Wild Card with Rachel Martin
Jenny Slate says she’s always looking for the light in the dark.
Photograph by Emily Sandifer; illustration by NPR
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Photograph by Emily Sandifer; illustration by NPR

Jenny Slate says she’s always looking for the light in the dark.
Photograph by Emily Sandifer; illustration by NPR
Welcome to Wild Card from NPR, where host Rachel Martin asks guests randomly-selected questions from a deck of cards. Tap play above to listen to the full podcast, or read an excerpt below.
I spent a lot of years hosting news shows at NPR and I got really tired of covering stories that reinforced how bad everything in the world was.
Basically, I was burned out. But it was also bigger than my job. My dad died unexpectedly and my mom had died a long time ago, so I felt empty and sort of lost. And I felt this urgency. All I wanted to do was think through really big questions about what it means to be alive. What experiences made us who we are? What lessons do we have to learn over and over? What beliefs help us make sense of the world?
And when I started opening up about this to friends, I realized that a lot of other people were also swimming around in these kinds of questions. So I thought, what if we talked about this stuff out loud? And wouldn’t it be cool to do it with people who, on the outside, seem like they’ve got their existential act together? But that’s a little intimidating. So we came up with this idea for a game to make it easier.

This is the way it works: we made this little deck of cards with really big questions on them. My guests pick cards from the deck at random. And then they answer the questions.
And I’m telling you, it’s amazing what happens. They start talking about ideas and experiences they haven’t talked about before, and then, I’m doing the same thing. I always leave these conversations feeling better — feeling that no matter how different we are, we’re all working through the same stuff.
And my hope is that this is going to happen for you too. That you’ll find yourself thinking about these questions and how they fit into your own life.
And I couldn’t have dreamed up a better guest to get things started than Jenny Slate. She is one of the deepest, most interesting comedians out there, in my opinion.
That comes out in her stand up and her movies, especially Marcel the Shell with Shoes On, which is one of the weirdest, most random, beautiful movies. You might know her from Obvious Child or for her role as Mona-Lisa Saperstein from Parks and Recreation.
This year, Slate released her latest comedy special called Seasoned Professional, which, at this point in her career, she really is — even if she’s still figuring out life like the rest of us.
The trailer for Jenny Slate: Seasoned Professional.
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So, let’s shuffle the Wild Card deck and draw our first question. Which is…
Question 1: What’s an ordinary place that feels extraordinary to you because of what happened there?
Jenny Slate: This sounds maybe gross or something, but I really feel that way about our bedroom in Massachusetts. And not because I’m like, you won’t believe what went down in here [laughs].
My husband is someone I met as a stranger and I really felt that I would not see him again. I thought about him a lot and I heard from another friend about where he lived in Massachusetts. And it felt to me that he lived almost in another dimension.
And I just remember the first time that I went to sleep in his bedroom and I was like, wow, this is a real place. It’s kind of like seeing the Eiffel Tower, like, I can’t believe it is real. And even though we live in that house together now, I still feel that way.
It’s a house that was built for his great grandmother, and when he lived there by himself it was filled with, like, a hundred years of stuff. And it felt very bachelor-y, like Dickensian bachelor-y. Like, there’s a taxidermied tortoise in here and heavy draperies from before. And now that we live there, it’s very sparse. I prefer a more Shaker aesthetic.

Rachel Martin: You had been married before. Did something have to change in you to make this relationship work, or was it just timing?
Slate: I couldn’t stop the timing of falling in love with him. And it was right for both of us to fall in love. But while walking down that path, I was very aware that I was injured. And I had to learn to trust — not just the big things, like I hope this person won’t lie to me, but also, I hope they won’t tell me they’re having one experience while having another. I hope they won’t secretly resent me for the things that they first felt were attractive about me.
As a performer, you want to shine your power out and that can be really attractive to people. But then all of a sudden they can get angry about it. That it’s not just for them. And so I do think that I really had to do a lot of work on my side of the problem in terms of learning to trust self-worth issues. But I am also an operatic romantic. I just love love, and that really helps.
Question 2: What is something you think about very differently today than you did 10 years ago?
Slate: Dressing. Not salad dressing, I’ve always loved it and I’ll never stop. Dressing my body.
Martin: What is different about how you think of that?
Slate: I’m pleased to say that I’ve come through a fair amount of internalized misogyny. So 10 years ago I was 31 and it was like, “You better wear that bikini.” You know, just these horrible, brutal feelings about my physical body and about how I needed to present what sexiness was and how much of my body to show.

I’ve always had a pretty clear sense of what I find to be beautiful. But I feel like it was sort of muddled up, and now I just want to dress like Jane Goodall, but like sometimes with a crop top. Like, let it flow.
I used to feel that I had to prove that my butt was there. And now I’m like, it’s not relevant whether or not you think my butt is there. I know it’s there. My toilet knows it’s there. And my husband knows it’s there. And, unfortunately, some of my friends know it’s there.
Question 3: Is there anything in your life that has felt predestined?
Slate: I don’t really connect to the concept of destiny. Sometimes I get scared and ask my husband, “What if we hadn’t met each other? What were the chances?” And he always goes, “100%.” And I like that. I don’t know about the soul mate thing, and I know it sounds so cheesy, but I do feel like he’s my spiritual match.
I guess I believe in a spiritual eventuality, which you could call destiny, but it’s more like a point on the globe. It’s like a fixed point, but it doesn’t mean you’ll get there. You still have to do things to get there. It’s an option.
But no, I’ve never felt like anything was predestined. I’ve just felt as if every now and then there’s a kind of meteor shower and good fortune falls into my life like that.

Martin: Have you always been good about appreciating the meteor shower or has that come later in life for you?
Slate: I think I actually have been. And I think it’s because my mother, who I love dearly, can be rather negative. If you ask her to tell a story, it often sounds as if it were cloudy in the sky, like it’s just with this sort of tinge of dread and negativity. And it’s kind of drama. It’s drama.
My response to that has been to be, no — sunshine! And it can also make me be a terminal optimist in the worst way, like almost a fool. But I think I’ve always had that kind of look out. It’s not a Pollyanna-ish thing. It’s looking for light in the dark. That’s what it is.
To listen to this full conversation, tap play at the top for the Wild Card podcast.
Lifestyle
‘Dead but Dreaming of Electric Sheep’ is full of beautifully written grotesqueries
Paul Tremblay has made a career of pushing the horror genre – and the novel format – in strange and exciting new directions.
In his latest, Dead but Dreaming of Electric Sheep, the author offers an amalgamation of genre elements that can be best described as psychological-dystopian-science-fiction horror. It’s a mouthful, but the narrative does all of that and more in a way that defies categorization.
Julia Flang is a former semiprofessional gamer working two mediocre jobs she dislikes and living in a modest ranch house in a San Fernando Valley suburb with her retired uncle, whom she calls Uncle Fun. Julia likes movies and gaming but there’s little else going on in her life, so when her estranged mother, the CFO of a large tech company, contacts her with a possible job offer – a “once-in-a-lifetime thing” that pays handsomely just for doing the interview – she hesitantly agrees.

The job is relatively simple and perfect for someone with gaming skills: using a controller built into a phone to get a man, who is stuck in a vegetative state, from California to the East Coast. It will require her to learn how to control his body – walking, moving, sitting, standing, using his arms – so she can maneuver him out of the facility where he is located and into cars and planes and through crowded airports. A fan of movies, Julia decides to call the man Bernie – after the movie Weekend at Bernie’s. When the ethics of the job start to bother her, Julia realizes it’s too late and she must go through with it. However, she’s soon contacted by people interested in sabotaging the whole thing, people who, like her, don’t align with the shady interests of conglomerates and those set to make “gobs of money” from this new, somewhat inhuman technology.
As with every Tremblay novel, any synopsis barely scratches the surface. The novel’s chapters alternate between Julia and you (yes, you). Julia’s chapters are “normal” in the sense that they obey a chronological order and have action, basic descriptions of movement and places, and dialogue. The chapters in second person are like fever dreams from a shadow world; the desperate experiences of a man trapped inside his own body with no control of it, no clue what’s happening to him, and only a few fragmented memories of his life. Also, Tremblay uses a similarly fragmented style of storytelling (including words and sentences trapped in boxes and/or “moving” on the page) to keep things interesting but also confusing and creepy.
This novel operates on several different levels and – planes of existence? Bernie has a head full of AI that controls his body, but his consciousness is still there and struggling to regain control, struggling to remember things. There are monsters, leeches, mysterious rabbits, and eerie shadows in his world, but the true horror comes from the lack of control, from being moved around against his will and having no clue what comes next. Bernie is the embodiment of losing control to AI, and when taken together with the commentary of creativity and AI and the meta interludes in which the author takes a wrecking ball to the fourth wall and addresses readers, this is the best anti-Generative AI story horror has produced so far.
Despite the horror of it, this is a very funny novel. Julia is sarcastic and struggles to keep her comebacks in line, but the conversations she has and messages she writes are always entertaining. However, the humor is far from the crown jewel here. That title belongs to a plethora of big ideas Tremblay juggles. The nature of life, death, and consciousness, the evils of conglomerates, inhuman practices in the name of capitalism, and AI, and even what it means to be human are all explored here: “Is Bernie alive? Is he feeling pain? Is he experiencing everything as a prisoner looking through the bars of his body? Has his consciousness been winnowed to a metaphysical keyhole? Where does consciousness begin or end?” There are no definite answers here, but the way Tremblay infuses humanity, love, the importance of relationships, and humor throughout the narrative provides the kind of answers that can’t and don’t need to be spelled out.
A genre-bender full of big ideas that constantly switches between a world full of real or uncomfortably plausible nightmares and a bizarre hellscape in which loss of self, memory, and autonomy are only the tip of the proverbial iceberg, Dead but Dreaming of Electric Sheep is a horrific and terrifyingly disorienting novel that invites readers to consider a future that already started. Tremblay has always been an innovator, but this beautifully written collection of real and imagined grotesqueries cements him not only as one of the most original and exciting voices in horror but also as one of the smartest, most engaging authors in contemporary fiction.
Gabino Iglesias is an author, book reviewer and professor living in Austin, Texas. Find him on X, formerly Twitter, at @Gabino_Iglesias.

Lifestyle
At Mindful Archery, L.A. women take aim at their exes, toxic jobs and Donald Trump
Give a girl a bow and arrow, take her to the woods, and anything feels possible.
That’s what I was thinking as I positioned myself in front of bales of hay in an open field at the Woodley Park Archery Range in Van Nuys. Channeling my inner Katniss, I took a “power stance:” shoulders back, legs slightly bent, bow cradled in my upper body. I slid a small but fierce-looking arrow bearing orange feathers onto the bow “nock,” filled my lungs with air, then heaved the tense bowstrings back to my jaw, one eye closed and the other narrowed in concentration.
Then I did what often feels impossible for me: I let go.
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The arrow hurdled forward, unleashing an audible woosh followed by a distant thwack. I missed my target entirely, stabbing the hunk of hay more than a foot away from the bull’s-eye. But the feeling of release as the bowstrings were left vibrating in my arms was palpable, intensely satisfying.
This was Mindful Archery.
Angie Fadel, founder of Soulcare, leads Mindful Archery.
(Eric Thayer / Los Angeles Times)
The seemingly militaristic act of archery and peaceful meditation may seem diametrically opposed. But at Angie Fadel Soulcare, they make perfect sense together. Fadel leads workshops in Mindful Archery that combine meditation, somatic practices such as breathwork, immersive nature therapy and archery instruction.
The idea, Fadel says, is for participants to gather in a healing nature setting while becoming mindful of something they want to either let go of (an unfulfilling job or toxic relationship, for example) or something they’re aiming for and want to bring into their lives. Fadel leads a short guided meditation at the start of the workshop for participants to relax and get grounded, followed by a nature walk so they can further sink into the moment and become clear on what, exactly, their targets will be for the day — what they’ll be shooting for, or at. Then participants draw their individual targets on paper with colored markers that Fadel provides.
Attendees hold up their targets during a Mindful Archery class.
(Eric Thayer / Los Angeles Times)
One target might look like an abstract drawing representing a feeling, another might be a jumble of words and symbols such as “Love,” “$” and “Health.” Or an illustration of Donald Trump, as one past archer aimed for.
“I’ve seen everything,” Fadel says. “People have put their parents, their exes, people have put rapists — the most damaging things that have happened to them — on a target because if you can hit that thing, it feels better in your body. The same thing happens when you hit something good, it’s a hopeful mechanism in the body.”
Fadel’s archery instruction is as much about how the sport feels in the body as it is about technical precision. The slow and steady, intentional steps of deep breathing, taking aim and shooting at a carefully considered target is a powerful act, she says.
“Even if the arrow doesn’t go where you want, there’s this immediate thing that happens in your body that feels good,” Fadel says. “When you let go of that string, there’s an energy, there’s a movement — actual, physical energy moves. Something magical happens. It helps the things that are stuck in the body get unstuck. It’s somatic. Then it’s an extra bonus if you do hit your target, because the slap of the paper feels even better.”
Angie Fadel readies bows.
(Eric Thayer / Los Angeles Times)
Fadel, who lives in Portland, Ore., and calls herself “a soul-collaborator,” has a masters in spiritual companionship and spent a decade working as a pastor in a Portland church helping members find untraditional spiritual paths. She’s also been an archer for more than 15 years. She came to both practices — spiritual companionship and archery — separately before they organically entwined. Midway through pursuing her master’s in 2011 she discovered a friend was a master archer. She’d always wanted to learn archery, since she was a kid growing up in rural Washington, and she persuaded him to give her a lesson.
“It was just one lesson, but it changed my life,” Fadel says. “I was doing something that I’d always dreamed of doing. It unlocked something I didn’t realize could be unlocked.”
Targets pinned to a hay bale allow participants to take aim at what they want to bring into their lives.
(Eric Thayer / Los Angeles Times)
Fadel found archery increasingly therapeutic. She was doing a lot of introspective Jungian journaling at the time. As life challenges came up in her journaling — the stress of school or a difficult roommate, “or just society as a whole,” she says — she’d put them on targets in the form of words. Shooting at them helped her process the conflict. She thought the beneficial side effects of archery were particular to her, however. Then she took a struggling friend out for her first archery lesson and the response was profound.
“I realized, you know what? This works. I can take you from never touching a bow to your leaving with your nervous system relaxed. I thought: I have to figure out how to give this to other people.”
Now with Soulcare, Fadel conducts multiple types of archery workshops in Portland and around the country, including in Colorado, Texas and throughout California. She comes to Los Angeles to lead workshops several times a year. One workshop is a Mindful Archery class, not to be confused with her other course Meditative Archery, which involves Jungian journaling; and there’s a one-on-one archery session with spiritual guidance.
Empowering women and minorities, Fadel says, is a key part of her archery workshops.
“An archery range can be a very white, male-dominated space,” she says. “And the stance, with a bow and arrow in your hand, shooting — it’s very male. And [men] don’t have any problem, most of the time, taking up space. So it is a practice to remind ourselves, as a queer woman, a trans person, nonbinary person, anybody that’s kind of othered in our society, to be able to take up space. To adopt a power stance and be, like, I’m allowed to be here.”
Inside the Mindful Archery workshop
Our workshop began with gentle stretching in an open field. It was a cool, overcast day and as the wind rustled the tree leaves, a baby coyote raced across the lawn in the distance. During introductions, attendees shared why they were here.
Archery is about “letting go” and here, a student lets her arrow fly.
(Eric Thayer / Los Angeles Times)
“I’m actually a very anxious person,” said Rachel Clipper, 26, “so I’m always looking for something to help me feel more grounded and promote mind-body connection.”
Kati Lee, 29, said that as a “‘Hunger Games’ girlie,” she’d always thought archery was cool. “But what drew me to keep coming back was the mindful part of it,” she said. “My favorite part is that we make our own targets.”
During the nature walk, we ambled down a tangle of dirt trails as Fadel pointed out wild rose bushes, Aspen trees and elderberry, giving a recipe for syrup. When we came to a body of water in a clearing — the Woodley Park Wetlands — we watched as a majestic-looking cormorant stretched its wings in the distance.
“Think about what would feel good to either annihilate,” Fadel said as we returned to the range. “Or bring in, or let go of, or make peace with. You can put all of it on your target.”
And so we did. We hunkered down at a picnic table by the archery range for crafting and snacks that Fadel provided, every one of us falling into silent sketching and scribbling as we munched on peanuts and granola bars. It felt like summer camp.
Lee set her markers down. “Done,” she said, contemplating her target. It was adorned with words such as “Health,” “Love,” “Family” and “Friends” inside concentric hearts.
Yvonne Golomb, 70, said she’d done archery as a high school student in gym class. She was shy back then, but archery had made her feel bold. Now that she’s retired, she’s craving that feeling again and is returning to the sport for sustenance.
“It’s this nice memory, it made me feel strong, it was freeing,” she said. “Now that I’m retired I’m exploring it. I wanted to bring back those memories.”
When it was time for our archery lesson, Fadel conducted one last somatic exercise to loosen us up. She had us tap up and down our body parts, from our feet to our ears, before shaking out any remaining stress.
Then she coached us, individually, as we took aim at our targets in sets of three.
“Breathe, zero in on your target, OK, now smooth …,” she said, hovering over one attendee.
May Claire La Plante, 31, said she was doing archery today, in an “adaptive stance” Fadel had taught her, to build up her arm strength after a surgery.
Kati Lee, right, and Tristan Gonzales affix their targets during a Mindful Archery class.
(Eric Thayer / Los Angeles Times)
“I was feeling very frustrated that I couldn’t get it at the beginning,” La Plante said. “I didn’t even finish my arrows. But getting back up and the act of trying again — despite the injury and all the baggage that comes with it — is really empowering.”
“Bull’s-eye!” Clipper cheered nearby, her anxiety seemingly dissipated. She’d hit her target, dead center. What was on it? A labyrinth-like spiral of words with “Peace,” “Love” and “Creative Control” at the epicenter.
I wasn’t having as much luck and was missing my target repeatedly.
“Try loosening your grip,” Fadel coached. She adjusted my stance. “Now breathe.”
It seemed counterintuitive to slacken my grip given such a precise goal — to land a slender arrow in the epicenter of a black dot. But I did, letting the edge of the bow sit loosely, even wobbly, between my fingers. I took aim and shot. This time the arrow flew strong and straight.
One participant hit the bull’s-eye, which calls for “peace” and “love,” dead center.
(Eric Thayer / Los Angeles Times)
Another round later and it landed smack on the paper target, just above my bull’s-eye.
“See?” Fadel said, elated. “Archery isn’t about doing it right, it’s about repetition. The more you can be in your body, and relaxed with the repetition, the better you are. Rarely do I have someone not hit their target at least one time.”
She squinted at my target, then turned to me.
“It’s because they’re relaxed and it’s because they trust me,” she added. “And they learn to trust themselves more.”
Lifestyle
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