Business
How Amazon’s ‘neighborhood watch’ turns police officers into ‘Reddit moderators’
September 23, 2021, was a busy day in Jeffry Poole’s inbox. The detective with the Los Angeles Police Department started receiving emails about alleged crimes at 3:30 a.m. that day.
The messages came in slowly at first, but by the afternoon they were landing every 10 minutes or so. All told, Poole received 63 emails from Neighbors, the social media platform for people who own Ring doorbell cameras.
Similar to the message-board-style app Nextdoor, Neighbors encourages people with Ring cameras, and others who join the platform independently, to share information to keep their neighborhoods “safe.” People can use Neighbors to publish footage alongside their posts; when the posts are forwarded to police officers, officers can click through to view the accompanying media.
Billed as the “new neighborhood watch” when it launched in May 2018, Neighbors positioned itself as an app to unite “your neighbors, the Ring News team and local law enforcement, so we can work together to stop burglaries, prevent package theft and make our communities safer for all.”
Ring, which is owned by the tech giant Amazon, has formed a working relationship with the LAPD that results in a steady stream of email alerts from the Neighbors platform to hundreds of officers in the department. The LAPD is one of more than 2,600 police departments in the United States that have partnerships with Amazon’s Ring network.
Working with students from the NYCity News Service at the Craig Newmark Graduate School of Journalism at CUNY. (Full disclosure: Craig Newmark is also a funder of the Markup, which used public record requests to obtain more than 200,000 emails that were sent to officers’ inboxes from Neighbors from July 11, 2020, to Sept. 30, 2022.)
This article was co-published with The Markup, a nonprofit, investigative newsroom that challenges technology to serve the public good. Sign up for its newsletters here.
The LAPD’s collaboration with Ring is one of the latest examples of the department’s rush to adopt technologies and amass data that have shown few signs of improving policing outcomes. And although it’s unclear just how useful these practices are, they take over inboxes, invade consumer privacy and run the risk of misdirecting police officers’ time and attention.
Poole, who did not respond to three separate requests for comment via his LAPD email and phone, nor to requests sent through a public information officer, was one of 260 LAPD law enforcement officers who had opted in to receive emails of crime alerts posted on Neighbors as of Sept. 30, 2022. Detective Poole received the most Neighbors email alerts of anyone else in the LAPD: During the 18 months or so after he signed up to the service, he received 10,651 emails about alleged crimes and 89 other alerts from Neighbors, including reminders to log into the service when he hadn’t done so in several weeks.
(You can read more about the demographics of Neighbors users here, and how the Markup analyzed the data it received here.)
If a user in Los Angeles classifies a post as a “crime,” a police officer such as Poole may receive an automated alert in their inbox and can click through to the original post to view any media attached, according to emails that the LAPD released to the Markup. About one-third of the emails Poole received on that day in 2021 mentioned package theft or a “PORCH PIRATE,” as one message proclaimed in all caps. Roughly 1 in 10 emails did not describe a crime and often depicted behavior that the poster considered suspicious, such as “checking cars.”
Despite Neighbors’ intention to get police access to information about potential crimes, posts that contain no criminal activity regularly land in officers’ inboxes. When the Markup reviewed 1,000 randomly selected alerts forwarded to LAPD staffers, it found that roughly one-third of them described non-criminal behavior that had been deemed suspicious by users — such as walking by cars to check doors or a stranger ringing someone’s doorbell. Some experts worry that this kind of information may shift policing more toward quality-of-life issues and property theft rather than life-threatening crimes such as assault.
To Albert Fox Cahn, the founder and executive director of the Surveillance Technology Oversight Project, the deluge of information is a waste of officers’ time. Attention that could be focused on meaningful police work instead gets spent wading through email alerts.
“Treating officers like Reddit moderators isn’t a good use of their time. It’s not a good way to actually engage with the community,” Cahn said.
Ring did not respond to specific questions about Neighbors and did not comment on the data analysis methodology shared with the company ahead of publication. Spokesperson Mai Nguyen shared a general overview of Ring’s work with the police and provided a statement that touted “positive examples” of communities working with public safety agencies, such as by returning missing people and pets. “All posts and comments on Neighbors are publicly viewable on the Neighbors feed by users and public safety agencies alike. Both users and public safety agencies control whether and what type of posts they receive via email alerts,” Nguyen wrote in an email to the Markup.
As with Poole, other LAPD officers who the Markup identified as using Neighbors to keep tabs on crime did not respond to requests for interviews. But Sarah Brayne, a sociologist at the University of Texas at Austin and author of the book “Predict and Surveil,” found that many of the civilian employees and LAPD officers she interviewed worried about the privacy implications of data collection. One person interviewed described the LAPD’s approach of “collect now, analyze later” as a form of “data greed,” and wondered whether the massive data collection efforts actually ended in meaningful policing outcomes that would justify the LAPD invading the privacy of consumers.
Peter Polack, a data analyst with the Stop LAPD Spying Coalition, worries that Neighbors’ relationship with the LAPD is “creating an environment where there aren’t any restrictions to how much information is being collected about people.”
“It just extends the power of police — not just over people who commit crime, but over everyone,” he said.
‘We are going to war’
When Jamie Siminoff first pitched his doorbell company to investors on the reality TV show “Shark Tank” in 2013, he said that it would make “lives more convenient.” He called his gadget Doorbot back then, and said it was like a “caller ID” for your doorbell. It also added security, he said. He didn’t get the investment he wanted from the show, but was able to raise funds elsewhere.
Three years after its TV debut, the company pivoted hard.
“We are going to war with anyone that wants to harm a neighborhood,” Siminoff wrote in an email to employees in 2016, according to the Intercept. Ring would be teaming up with police, he said. Employees were sent camouflage shirts with the Ring logo printed across the chest and the words “Always home” on the back.
In a message to “the dirtbag criminals that steal our packages and rob our houses,” Siminoff wrote that “your time is numbered because Ring is now officially declaring war on you!” Another email to employees praised Ring’s role in a case where footage from one of its cameras aided law enforcement with issuing a warrant, the Intercept reported. In it, Siminoff said that he wished he “had some better wording for this […] but to put it bluntly, this is just F—ING AWESOME!”
Ring threw parties with free food and open bars to recruit police to use their services, with at least one party featuring Shaquille O’Neal. The company also started sharing information such as maps of active doorbell cameras with police departments.
It brought on police officers as influencers to market its cameras under an ambassador program called Pillar. Ring would send interested officers packages containing “flyers, discount cards, and door hangers with your coupon code printed on them,” according to documents that the LAPD released via the city’s public records requests portal. The company gave at least 100 LAPD officers free cameras, which helped the department create a network of surveillance devices that, in turn, made it easier to obtain video footage, the Los Angeles Times reported. Some cities paid up to $100,000 to subsidize discounts on Ring cameras.
As part of its efforts to court police interest, Ring offered access to a service called the Ring Neighborhoods Portal — a platform separate from Neighbors that allowed police officers to communicate with camera owners, get an overview of active Ring devices in their jurisdiction and request footage directly from users. In 2021, after criticism following national police brutality protests, Ring changed its policy to no longer allow police to contact users directly. After this, law enforcement officials instead had to post on the apps’ timelines to ask for footage. (An instructional video of the Ring Neighborhoods Portal is archived here).
Today, any “local public safety agency” is invited to fill out a submission form for Ring to review, or email Ring directly to join the Neighbors Public Safety Service, which allows law enforcement to engage with residents on the platform. At the same time, Neighbors continued its email notification system, automatically forwarding some posts to officers.
When the LAPD joined Neighbors in May 2019, it became the 240th law enforcement agency to join the service. Today, that number is more than 2,600, according to data from Ring’s Active Agency Map.
The LAPD has a history of embracing unproven technologies that raise concerns about privacy and civil liberties. It was one of the first police departments in the country to develop its own predictive policing program in 2011 called Operation LASER (which stands for Los Angeles’ Strategic Extraction and Restoration). Its goal was to extract “offenders” with laser-like precision, according to the Guardian. Documents obtained by the Stop LAPD Spying Coalition showed that the program would produce “chronic offender” lists based on inconsistent data, and that police officers often subjected people on these lists to harassment.
The department also worked with another company, Geolitica, then known as PredPol, which produced a controversial piece of software that disproportionately predicted crimes would happen in minority neighborhoods. The LAPD ceased both the PredPol program and Operation LASER amid public outcry about bias in 2019 and 2020.
“We’ve seen lots of experiments that have failed. I think you can look at L.A. as a failure of data-driven policing,” Andrew Guthrie Ferguson, professor at the American University Washington College of Law and author of the book “The Rise of Big Data Policing,” told the Markup. “And yet there’s this ever-growing push to have ‘tech solutionism’ be a response to poverty and lack of a social safety net, and a response to some really structural problems that we think we can just have a quick fix with a new algorithm. And [it] usually doesn’t work too well.”
‘We Do Not Work Specifically With Ring’
According to emails that the LAPD released to NBC through a records request, Ring actively recruited the LAPD to use the platform. Once Ring’s “success managers” had signed up some members of the LAPD to the service, they would tap into these early adopters to mobilize their peers. To familiarize LAPD officers with the platform, the company organized in-person training sessions as well as video calls.
Ring worked with the LAPD and requested Excel sheets of ZIP Codes about policing beats to draw up “alert zones,” or geographical boundaries that officers could select to receive posts on Neighbors from that area.
“When you select an alert zone, you will receive any new resident posts that are categorized through … email notifications,” Andrea Han, a partner success manager at Ring, said in an email to more than three dozen police officers in May 2019.
The Markup reached out to the LAPD on three separate occasions between May and September 2023. The LAPD declined all interview requests, and did not respond to specific questions.
In an email, a spokesman for the department, Officer Drake Madison, said that it does not view its relationship with Ring as a partnership. “We do not ‘work with’ RING,” he wrote.
“We work with citizens, or whoever has a RING system, as part of a crime investigation. Video surveillance is a great tool. Unfortunately, we will not be speaking on the RING system at this time.” .
It’s unclear what the tangible outcomes of these partnerships are, or how LAPD officers make use of the forwarded posts. In the more than 200,000 emails the Markup received via public records, nearly 400 were notifications that a user responded to a post by a LAPD officer. In this dataset, at least 26 LAPD officers posted in Neighbors at least once and received responses from users.
Some users would thank officers for their posts, with many officer usernames, at times, including their rank and name, followed by “Los Angeles Police Department.” Others responded with their own concerns. One user, for example, commented on a post titled “LAPD Coffee Sun Valley, Shadow Hills, La Tuna Canyon, North Hollywood,” asking “What can we do about the homeless people in RVs around the neighborhood?” Another post by a police officer titled “Need the Community’s help … Serial Commercial Burglar” prompted a Neighbors user to comment: “Maybe clean up the street across Panera by [redacted name of business]? All homeless people.”
In response to another post from the LAPD titled “COMMUNITY ALERT – Hot Prowl Burglary,” a user replied: “I thank the LAPD for posting this and doing their part to apprehend these losers.”
A 2019 investigation by NBC showed that many police departments didn’t make any arrests from Ring footage, and that there’s very little evidence that Ring actually reduces crime.
To Cahn of the Surveillance Technology Oversight Project, the platform is a space where “there’s a lot of people who are trying to turn every complaint and grievance they have into yet another policing matter.”
“And they’re doing it in a way which makes it harder for police to actually respond to the things they normally would prioritize.”
Lam Thuy Vo writes for the Markup, a nonprofit news publication focused on the impact of technology on society. NYCity News Service writers Randi Love, James O’Donnell, Ariana Perez-Castells, Natalia Sánchez Loayza and Paisley Trent contributed to this report.
This series was made possible through support from the Pulitzer Center’s AI Accountability Network.
Business
How Poshmark Is Trying to Make Resale Work Again
Lauren Eager got into thrifting in high school. It was a way to find cheap, interesting clothes while not contributing to the wastefulness of fast fashion.
In 2015, in her first year of college, she downloaded the app for Poshmark, a kind of Instagram-meets-eBay resale platform. Soon, she was selling as well as buying clothes.
This was the golden age of online reselling. In addition to Poshmark, companies like ThredUp and Depop had sprung up, giving a second life to old clothes. In 2016, Facebook debuted Marketplace. Even Goodwill got into the action, starting a snazzy website.
The platforms tapped into two consumer trends: buying stuff online and the never-gets-old delight of snagging a gently used item for a fraction of the original cost. During the Covid-19 pandemic, as people cleaned out their closets, enthusiasm for reselling intensified. It was so strong that Poshmark decided to go public. On the day of its initial public offering in January 2021, the company’s market value peaked at $7.4 billion, roughly the same as PVH’s, the company that owns Calvin Klein and Tommy Hilfiger, at the time.
Then, the business of old clothes started to fray.
Using the Poshmark app, Ms. Eager and others said, started to feel like trying to find something in a messy closet. The app was cluttered with features that did not work or that she did not use, and it felt “spammy,” she said, sending too many push notifications.
Many platforms found selling used items hard to scale. Now, online resellers are trying to recalibrate. Last year, ThredUp decided to exit Europe and focus on selling in the United States. Trove, a company that helps brands like Canada Goose and Steve Madden resell their goods, purchased a competitor, Recurate. The RealReal, a luxury consignor, appointed a new chief executive as the company tried to improve profitability.
Poshmark is undergoing perhaps the biggest reinvention. In 2023, Naver, South Korea’s biggest search engine as well as an online marketplace, bought the company in a deal valued at $1.6 billion, less than half its IPO price.
Something of a mash-up of Google and Amazon, Naver is betting it can rebuild Poshmark, which has 130 million active users, with the same technology that made Naver dominant in its own country.
It may also help breathe new life into the resale market. Analysts think the resale fashion market still has room to grow in the United States, with revenue expected to increase 26 percent to $36.3 billion by 2028, according to the retail consultancy firm Coresight Research.
New legislation in California could help. The law, passed last year, requires brands and retailers that operate in the state and generate at least $1 million to set up a “producer responsibility organization” to collect and then reuse, repair or recycle its products. Resale platforms like ThredUp and Poshmark could be in a position to help brands carry out that mandate.
At the moment, though, Naver’s focus for Poshmark is more basic: Make it a better place to sell and shop. The company has the “operating know-how” to do that, said Philip Lee, a founder of the media outlet The Pickool, which covers both South Korean and U.S. tech companies.
“They’re trying to renovate Poshmark and then expand the market share,” he said.
A Marriage of Search and Commerce
Poshmark, which is based in Redwood City, Calif., was founded in 2011 by Manish Chandra, an entrepreneur and former tech executive, and three others. In trying to expand, Poshmark faced a problem common to resellers: Capturing the excitement of the secondhand-shopping treasure hunt while not frustrating buyers with an endless scroll. The company knew it needed better search, as well as interactive elements that gave people more reasons to come beyond paying $19 for a J. Crew sweater.
For its part, Naver was looking for ways to push beyond South Korea, where its commerce and search businesses were already mature. The growing online resale market in the United States presented an opportunity, and also gave the company access to the largest consumer market in the world.
“Commerce is a big growth engine for us,” Namsun Kim, Naver’s chief financial officer, said. And the peer-to-peer sector, where users sell to one another, was still in its infancy, with room to expand. But, Mr. Kim added, “it’s a more challenging segment, and that’s why it’s harder for a lot of the larger players to enter.”
There are two common business models for resale: peer-to-peer and consignment. With consignment, a platform collects and redistributes physical goods. Poshmark uses the peer-to-peer model, which relies on scores of people — many of them novices — haggling over prices and then mailing items to one another. This decentralization can be a headache for brands, which like to maintain a certain level of control of their products. And platforms like Poshmark must make buyers comfortable with trusting the sellers on their site.
Before the Naver purchase, it was difficult to push through needed technological changes, said Vanessa Wong, the vice president of product at Poshmark.
“I would always talk to my engineers and ask, ‘What if we do this or do that?’ They’re like, ‘That’s hard. The effort’s really high,’” Ms. Wong said.
Naver’s purchase offered both the investment and the expertise to pull off the changes. Founded in 1999, the company is everywhere in South Korea.
“We are not just a simple search technology or A.I. service,” said Soo-yeon Choi, the chief executive of Naver, whose headquarters are near Seoul. The company, she said, “alleviates the frustrations of people, which is what is needed to help growth.”
Search built Naver “into the massive power that they are in Korea,” said Mr. Chandra, who stayed on as chief executive after Naver’s purchase. It was the top priority when the company bought Poshmark.
Several new elements for users and sellers have been introduced. With a tool called Posh Lens, users can take a photo of an item and, using Naver’s machine-learning technology, the site populates listings that are the same or similar to the shoe or tank top that they’re searching for. A paid ad feature for sellers called “Promoted Closet,” pushes listings higher on customer feeds.
Poshmark also introduced live shows, some of which are themed, to draw in the TikTok generation and increase engagement. One party auctioned off clothing previously worn by South Korean celebrities, a connection that was made with the help of Naver.
Still, the resale market is going through growing pains and has not quite found its footing since the height of the pandemic. It’s not clear whether the changes taking place at Poshmark will be enough. In May, Mr. Kim, Naver’s finance chief, said in an earnings call that Poshmark’s profitability was improving, but by November, the company was cautioning that growth had slowed because of weakness in the peer-to-peer resale market in North America.
Missteps and Reinvention
The company has already done some backpedaling on unpopular decisions.
In October, Poshmark introduced a new fee structure, which increased costs for buyers. Sellers, fearing that higher costs would make consumers bolt, revolted. Within weeks, the company scrapped the new fee structure.
And there are still user headaches: tags and keywords that help users find what they’re looking for can be miscategorized. Sellers sometimes tag their products incorrectly to get more eyeballs on their less popular products. (Hard-to-offload Amazon leggings, for example, may be listed as Free People apparel.)
The company is beta testing changes with its frequent sellers — people like Alex Mahl, who sells thousands of dollars in apparel on the site each year. And within dedicated Facebook groups related to Poshmark, there’s a lot of chatter about the changes that sellers and buyers would still like to see.
“The only way for it to do well is there’s going to be constant changes,” Ms. Mahl said about the tweaks on Poshmark. “If you were just on an app that never changed — one, it would be boring, and two, the opportunity to just do better wouldn’t be there.”
One recent morning, Ms. Eager, the seller who joined Poshmark back in college, was pleasantly surprised to find that the app had some new features she actually liked. She snapped a photo of her Aerie gray tank top with Posh Lens. Within seconds, the app populated listings of similar products. It was so much better than conjuring up the adjectives needed to describe it.
“Love it,” Ms. Eager exclaimed.
Business
When receipts of home renovations are lost, is the tax break gone too?
Dear Liz: I have sold my family home recently after almost 50 years. I had done lots of improvements throughout those years. Due to a fire 15 years ago, all the documentation for these improvements has been destroyed. How do I document the improvements for the capital gains tax calculation?
Answer: As you probably know, you can exclude $250,000 of capital gains from the sale of a principal residence as long as you own and live in the home at least two of the previous five years. The exclusion is $500,000 for a couple.
Once upon a time, that meant few homeowners had to worry about capital gains taxes on the sale of their home. But the exclusion amounts haven’t changed since they were created in 1997, even as home values have soared. Qualifying home improvements can be used to increase your tax basis in the home and thus decrease your tax bill, but the IRS probably will demand proof of those changes should you be audited.
You could ask any contractors you used who are still in business if they will provide written verification of the work they performed, suggests Mark Luscombe, principal analyst for Wolters Kluwer Tax & Accounting. You also could check your home’s history with your property tax assessor to see if its assessment was adjusted to reflect any of the improvements.
At a minimum, prepare a list from memory of the improvements you made, including the year and the approximate cost. If you don’t have pictures of the house reflecting the changes, perhaps friends and relatives might. This won’t be the best evidence, Luscombe concedes, but it might get the IRS to accept at least some increase in your tax basis.
If you’re a widow or widower, there’s another tax break you should know about. At least part of your home would have gotten a step-up in tax basis if you were married and your co-owner spouse died. In most states, the half owned by the deceased spouse would get a new tax basis reflecting the home’s current market value. In community property states such as California, both halves of the house get this step-up. A tax pro can provide more details.
Other homeowners should take note of the importance of keeping good digital records. While documents may not be lost in a fire, they may be misplaced, accidentally discarded or (in the case of receipts) so faded they’re illegible. To make sure documents are available when you need them, consider scanning or taking photographs of your records and keeping multiple copies, such as one set in your computer and another in a secure cloud account.
When an employee is misclassified as contractor
Dear Liz: A parent recently wrote to you about a son who was being paid as a contractor. I know someone else who got a job that did not “take out taxes from his paycheck.” Such workers believe they are pocketing more money, but unfortunately, too many do not know about the nature of withholding. They only learn if they choose to file for their expected refund, but instead discover an exorbitant tax liability that a paycheck-to-paycheck worker cannot pay.
The sad fact is that many of these employers improperly classify their workers, who are truly employees, as independent contractors! And they do this to avoid paying their own portion of Social Security and unemployment taxes and also workers compensation insurance.
If workers believe that they have been misclassified (the IRS website provides all criteria), they can file IRS Form SS-8 and Form 8919, which will allow them to pay only their allocated half of their Social Security taxes. Hopefully the IRS will then contact these employers to correct their wrong classifications. And finally, it should be a law that, when hired, all true independent contractors should be given a clear form (not fine print on their employment agreements) that informs them of their status and the need to make estimated tax payments.
Answer: A big factor in determining whether a worker is an employee or contractor is control. Who controls what the worker does and how the worker does the job? The more control that’s in the employer’s hands, the more likely the worker is an employee.
However, the IRS notes that there are no hard and fast rules and that “factors which are relevant in one situation may not be relevant in another.”
The form you mentioned, IRS Form SS-8, also can be filed by any employer unsure if a worker is properly classified.
Liz Weston, Certified Financial Planner®, is a personal finance columnist. Questions may be sent to her at 3940 Laurel Canyon, No. 238, Studio City, CA 91604, or by using the “Contact” form at asklizweston.com.
Business
Inside Elon Musk’s Plan for DOGE to Slash Government Costs
An unpaid group of billionaires, tech executives and some disciples of Peter Thiel, a powerful Republican donor, are preparing to take up unofficial positions in the U.S. government in the name of cost-cutting.
As President-elect Donald J. Trump’s so-called Department of Government Efficiency girds for battle against “wasteful” spending, it is preparing to dispatch individuals with ties to its co-leaders, Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy, to agencies across the federal government.
After Inauguration Day, the group of Silicon Valley-inflected, wide-eyed recruits will be deployed to Washington’s alphabet soup of agencies. The goal is for most major agencies to eventually have two DOGE representatives as they seek to cut costs like Mr. Musk did at X, his social media platform.
This story is based on interviews with roughly a dozen people who have insight into DOGE’s operations. They spoke to The Times on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly.
On the eve of Mr. Trump’s presidency, the structure of DOGE is still amorphous and closely held. People involved in the operation say that secrecy and avoiding leaks is paramount, and much of its communication is conducted on Signal, the encrypted messaging app.
Mr. Trump has said the effort would drive “drastic change,” and that the entity would provide outside advice on how to cut wasteful spending. DOGE itself will have no power to cut spending — that authority rests with Congress. Instead, it is expected to provide recommendations for programs and other areas to cut.
But parts of the operation are becoming clear: Many of the executives involved are expecting to do six-month voluntary stints inside the federal government before returning to their high-paying jobs. Mr. Musk has said they will not be paid — a nonstarter for some originally interested tech executives — and have been asked by him to work 80-hour weeks. Some, including possibly Mr. Musk, will be so-called special government employees, a specific category of temporary workers who can only work for the federal government for 130 days or less in a 365-day period.
The representatives will largely be stationed inside federal agencies. After some consideration by top officials, DOGE itself is now unlikely to incorporate as an organized outside entity or nonprofit. Instead, it is likely to exist as more of a brand for an interlinked group of aspirational leaders who are on joint group chats and share a loyalty to Mr. Musk or Mr. Ramaswamy.
“The cynics among us will say, ‘Oh, it’s naïve billionaires stepping into the fray.’ But the other side will say this is a service to the nation that we saw more typically around the founding of the nation,” said Trevor Traina, an entrepreneur who worked in the first Trump administration with associates who have considered joining DOGE.
“The friends I know have huge lives,” Mr. Traina said, “and they’re agreeing to work for free for six months, and leave their families and roll up their sleeves in an attempt to really turn things around. You can view it either way.”
DOGE leaders have told others that the minority of people not detailed to agencies would be housed within the Executive Office of the President at the U.S. Digital Service, which was created in 2014 by former President Barack Obama to “change our government’s approach to technology.”
DOGE is also expected to have an office in the Office of Management and Budget, and officials have also considered forming a think tank outside the government in the future.
Mr. Musk’s friends have been intimately involved in choosing people who are set to be deployed to various agencies. Those who have conducted interviews for DOGE include the Silicon Valley investors Marc Andreessen, Shaun Maguire, Baris Akis and others who have a personal connection to Mr. Musk. Some who have received the Thiel Fellowship, a prestigious grant funded by Mr. Thiel given to those who promise to skip or drop out of college to become entrepreneurs, are involved with programming and operations for DOGE. Brokering an introduction to Mr. Musk or Mr. Ramaswamy, or their inner circles, has been a key way for leaders to be picked for deployment.
That is how the co-founder of Loom, Vinay Hiremath, said he became involved in DOGE in a rare public statement from someone who worked with the entity. In a post this month on his personal blog, Mr. Hiremath described the work that DOGE employees have been doing before he decided against moving to Washington to join the entity.
“After 8 calls with people who all talked fast and sounded very smart, I was added to a number of Signal groups and immediately put to work,” he wrote. “The next 4 weeks of my life consisted of 100s of calls recruiting the smartest people I’ve ever talked to, working on various projects I’m definitely not able to talk about, and learning how completely dysfunctional the government was. It was a blast.”
These recruits are assigned to specific agencies where they are thought to have expertise. Some other DOGE enrollees have come to the attention of Mr. Musk and Mr. Ramaswamy through X. In recent weeks, DOGE’s account on X has posted requests to recruit a “very small number” of full-time salaried positions for engineers and back-office functions like human resources.
The DOGE team, including those paid engineers, is largely working out of a glass building in SpaceX’s downtown office located a few blocks from the White House. Some people close to Mr. Ramaswamy and Mr. Musk hope that these DOGE engineers can use artificial intelligence to find cost-cutting opportunities.
The broader effort is being run by two people with starkly different backgrounds: One is Brad Smith, a health care entrepreneur and former top health official in Mr. Trump’s first White House who is close with Jared Kushner, Mr. Trump’s son-in-law. Mr. Smith has effectively been running DOGE during the transition period, with a particular focus on recruiting, especially for the workers who will be embedded at the agencies.
Mr. Smith has been working closely with Steve Davis, a collaborator of Mr. Musk’s for two decades who is widely seen as working as Mr. Musk’s proxy on all things. Mr. Davis has joined Mr. Musk as he calls experts with questions about the federal budget, for instance.
Other people involved include Matt Luby, Mr. Ramaswamy’s chief of staff and childhood friend; Joanna Wischer, a Trump campaign official; and Rachel Riley, a McKinsey partner who works closely with Mr. Smith.
Mr. Musk’s personal counsel — Chris Gober — and Mr. Ramaswamy’s personal lawyer — Steve Roberts — have been exploring various legal issues regarding the structure of DOGE. James Burnham, a former Justice Department official, is also helping DOGE with legal matters. Bill McGinley, Mr. Trump’s initial pick for White House counsel who was instead named as legal counsel for DOGE, has played a more minimal role.
“DOGE will be a cornerstone of the new administration, helping President Trump deliver his vision of a new golden era,” said James Fishback, the founder of Azoria, an investment firm, and confidant of Mr. Ramaswamy who will be providing outside advice for DOGE.
Despite all this firepower, many budget experts have been deeply skeptical about the effort and its cost-cutting ambitions. Mr. Musk initially said the effort could result in “at least $2 trillion” in cuts from the $6.75 trillion federal budget. But budget experts say that goal would be difficult to achieve without slashing popular programs like Social Security and Medicare, which Mr. Trump has promised not to cut.
Both Mr. Musk and Mr. Ramaswamy have also recast what success might mean. Mr. Ramaswamy emphasized DOGE-led deregulation on X last month, saying that removing regulations could stimulate the economy and that “the success of DOGE can’t be measured through deficit reduction alone.”
And in an interview last week with Mark Penn, the chairman and chief executive of Stagwell, a marketing company, Mr. Musk downplayed the total potential savings.
“We’ll try for $2 trillion — I think that’s like the best-case outcome,” Mr. Musk said. “You kind of have to have some overage. I think if we try for two trillion, we’ve got a good shot at getting one.”
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