SALT LAKE CITY (KUTV) — Utah’s self-defense laws are in the spotlight following two high-profile cases. A law that went into effect in 2021 allows defendants to challenge the charge before trial by proving their use of force was justified.

The law requires the state to present “clear and convincing evidence” that a defendant’s use of force was not justified, with a judge deciding the outcome. If the prosecution fails to meet this burden, the case is dismissed with prejudice, meaning it can never be refiled.

At the time, House Bill 227 chief sponsor, state Rep. Karianne Lisonbee, said she was trying to decrease the risk to Utahns whose lives could be upended with lengthy and costly prosecutions and incarceration after trying to protect themselves. 2News Investigates asks if the justification hearing is working as Rep. Lisonbee intended while prosecutors claim it is an even more rigorous review for them that could be resulting in fewer cases filed.

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Body Camera Footage Captures Matt Alder’s Statements Following “No Kings” Shooting

On June 14, 2025, Arthur Folasa “Afa” Ah Loo was shot in the head during the “No Kings” march in downtown Salt Lake City. A safety volunteer, previously called a “peacekeeper,” Matt Alder told police that he saw a man later identified as Arturo Gamboa holding a rifle and told them he believed Gamboa was preparing to open fire on the protesters. Alder shot at Gamboa three times, injuring him and fatally striking Ah Loo.

Body camera footage from another safety volunteer at the scene captured Alder telling him what he saw prior to firing his gun. To be clear, Alder’s attorney, Phil Wormdahl, gave 2News Investigates permission to use the footage of his client. Police body camera footage from that day is not being released while the case is pending.

Matt Alder: Guy was around the corner, had an AR — he was ducked in around the corner like this — he was like loading his rifle and sh*t. I saw him. I fired a couple shots at the building to try to warn him off, get him to stop and he just took off.

Matt Alder: I can’t believe it. I fu**ing saw him, he was fu**ng loading an AR right fu**ing there.

A man asks Alder, “Did you just freeze for a second, couldn’t fu**ing believe it, or did you go for your gun?”

Matt Alder: For like half a second I pulled my gun, got behind the column, and I took shots at him.

Matt Alder: I saw him loading the fu**ing rifle like that dude was definitely not there for fu**ing fun.

Alder then asks about the man on the ground.

Matt Alder: F**k me, I hope that guy’s all right.

Earlier in the footage, he is seen kneeling down on the ground around responders who were trying to tend to Ah Loo.

Matt Alder Charged With Manslaughter 172 Days Later

It took nearly six months for the Salt Lake County District Attorney’s Office to file criminal charges in this case. On Dec. 3, Salt Lake County District Attorney Sim Gill and Deputy District Attorney Josh Graves filed one count of Manslaughter, a Second-Degree Felony, against Alder in connection with Ah Loo’s death. The information filing states that the “defendant did recklessly cause the death of another.”

That same day, DA Gill held a press conference at his office. He explained the screening process in this case.

“We went through a very sort of arduous process internally with our entire homicide team, and we tried to turn every stone we could,” Gill said.

He also said they weighed the evidence against Utah’s self-defense laws and the state’s self-defense justification law.

Road Rage Case Involving Death of Pat Hayes

Another example for the 2News investigation is the Sept. 25, 2024, shooting death of Pat Hayes in Wasatch County following a road-rage incident between Hayes and Greg DeBoer at Jordanelle State Park in the Ross Creek area. That deadly shooting was captured by surveillance cameras atop the buildings.

Greg DeBoer: “Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah.”

Pat Hayes: “You want to get out. Come on ***** boy. Come on. Come on ******. What’s wrong, what’s wrong. Come on. Come on, you little *****.”

Pat Hayes: “Ow, ow, ow, ow, ow.”

In October, Jim Bradshaw, the civil attorney for Hayes’ family, questioned why the Wasatch County Attorney’s Office won’t let a jury decide this case. Bradshaw told Judge Jennifer Mabey, “The conduct in this case is taking Pat Hayes life. And I don’t think anyone disputes that Mr. DeBoer did that — he’s admitted that.”

In a statement to 2News Investigates, County Attorney Scott Sweat wrote, “The Wasatch County Attorney’s Office does not believe that there is a likelihood that the evidence can disprove beyond a reasonable doubt the assertion of self-defense in this case.”

An excerpt from Wasatch County Attorney Scott Sweat’s statement in the Greg DeBoer case as to why his office could not disprove self-defense. (KUTV)

No homicide charge. No justification hearing. DeBoer is charged with obstruction of justice for allegedly hiding the gun used to kill Hayes under a rock in his backyard.

The Justification Hearing Law

In 2021, Utah State Representative Karianne Lisonbee (R-District 14) was the chief sponsor of House Bill 227, creating a new hearing called a “justification hearing.”

During that hearing, prosecutors must prove to a judge that self-defense does not apply and the defendant’s use of force was not justified.

It’s a lower standard here in that self-defense does not apply by “clear and convincing evidence.” But during a jury trial, it’s “proof beyond a reasonable doubt.” The judge then decides whether the use of force was justified. If the judge finds that it was justified, the court dismisses the case with prejudice. If the judge rules it was not justified, the defendant can still present a self-defense claim to a jury.

Rep. Lisonbee Says the Law Is Working as She Intended

Rep. Lisonbee was not available for an on-camera interview for this report but says the law is working as she intended. 2News Investigates asked her about both cases, that of Matt Alder and Greg DeBoer. Rep. Lisonbee criticized the delay in Alder’s case, attributing it to failures in the Salt Lake County District Attorney’s office. She maintained that the law is functioning as intended, allowing for prompt and appropriate charges if evidence supports it. She issued the following statement to 2News Investigates.

Utah State Representative Karianne Lisonbee criticized the Salt Lake County District Attorney for the length of time it took his office to file a criminal charge against Matt Alder. (KUTV)

2News Investigates provided Rep. Lisonbee’s statement to DA Gill and asked for a response to her criticism.

Keith Chalmers, communications manager for the Salt Lake County District Attorney’s Office, sent the following response via email:

“The Salt Lake County District Attorney’s Office requested the grand jury on Oct. 6, the earliest date available to do so. The panel denied the grand jury on Nov. 5, but Gill said a similar case in Massachusetts helped shine some light on a path forward on charges. Furthermore, our ballistics test results, which were looking at whether the bullet that killed Mr. Ah Loo was a ricochet, did not come back until Nov. 20,” said Salt Lake County District Attorney Sim Gill.

Salt Lake County District Attorney Sim Gill’s response to 2News Investigates regarding Rep. Lisonbee’s criticism. (KUTV)

Former Prosecutor Weighs In on How Law Affects Prosecutors

Nathan Evershed, a former Salt Lake County deputy district attorney, spent eleven years working in Gill’s office, reviewed both cases and spoke on camera with 2News Investigates for this report. He has prosecuted several of Utah’s high-profile cases. He is now a criminal defense attorney. He said the justification law has had an impact on the screening of cases for criminal charges by prosecutors.

“A justification hearing causes the prosecutors to rethink their case — that is for sure. Because they know that they will have to answer to the evidence that they have presented much sooner than a jury trial in the court hearing,” Evershed said.

He had this to say about the justification law itself: “The justification hearing law is forcing prosecutors to really evaluate their cases and to make sure that they can get through a justification hearing by clear and convincing evidence.”

He further said, “What is needed for a justification hearing and at the end of the day what is needed for trial is evidence. The prosecution needs evidence in order to disprove self-defense.”

Additionally, he said, “There’s two bites at the apple: the defendant has to assert self-defense claims, so does it cause a greater onus on the prosecutors to make sure that they can disprove self-defense — absolutely. That part of the law I think has come to fruition in terms of what the prosecutors are doing. They’re analyzing cases much more thoroughly for self-defense issues, and one big reason that they do that is under our system of law — the defendant doesn’t have to prove anything.”

Evershed said evidence is of the utmost importance. “It really comes down to the evidence, and so now prosecutors are in a place where they have to really strategically and meticulously look at the evidence and see if they can get through a justification hearing in order to get to a jury trial.”

And as a result, he told 2News Investigates, “Less cases are probably being filed because of that.”

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FARMINGTON, Utah (KUTV) — A threatening voicemail caught KUTV 2News photojournalist Jeremy Dubas completely off guard near the end of his shift.

The call came from a man claiming to be Sgt. Tyson Young with the Douglas County Sheriff’s Office in Nebraska. The caller told Dubas he had missed jury duty for a major case and that meant jail time.

Dubas, who grew up in Nebraska, has lived in Utah for more than two years. But the caller seemed prepared, saying the subpoena went to an old address and was signed for by someone else on his behalf.

“It’s such a different scam from what I’m used to watching out for,” said Dubas. “I’m still on the phone with him and he said, ‘Okay, so we need to get a payment so we can freeze the warrant for your arrest so you don’t get arrested.’”

About 40 minutes into the call, Dubas sent roughly $200 through PayPal. Within an hour, he realized it was a scam.

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“I’m very on high alert when I get an email, when I get a phone call, when I get a text message,” he explained. “This one just caught me off guard.”

Investigators with the Davis County Sheriff’s Office here in Utah said Jeremy Dubas is far from alone.

Megan Reid, a detective with Davis County, said the Sheriff’s Office gets at least 30 reports of jury duty scams a day. And Utah is losing a significant amount of money to them.

“Hundreds of thousands,” Reid said. “Just last week, we had a victim lose $12,000. That was their entire savings in that account.”

And it’s not limited to just older adults. Scammers target victims across all age groups, using real detective names and spoofing actual law enforcement phone numbers. They pull personal details from online sources, adding legitimacy to their predatory calls.

The feeling of shame after falling victim often keeps people from reporting what happened.

“This just happened last week,” said Reid. “He drove several cities away to a cryptocurrency ATM that the scammers knew didn’t have warning signs. He lost everything in his savings and hadn’t told his family yet. The money was gone within two minutes.”

In Dubas’ case, PayPal was able to refund his money. Now, he hopes his experience helps warn others.

“I felt dumb for not seeing the signs right away,” said Dubas, later adding, “If it seems like it’s serious and needs to be handled immediately, that’s when you’re supposed to pause and think about what’s really going on.”

The scam is being investigated at the federal level because of how much money is being lost. In some cases, it is possible to recover funds, but investigators said time is critical.

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SALT LAKE CITY — The judge overseeing the lawsuit over Utah’s redistricting process is expected to issue a ruling before Christmas on whether to grant the legislature’s request to close the case, sending it to the Utah Supreme Court.

Lawyers for the Utah State Legislature have urged 3rd District Court Judge Dianna Gibson to issue a final ruling, clearing their path for an appeal. They argued that the case effectively wrapped up once the judge issued a series of rulings on the legality of Proposition 4 and chose a new map for Utah’s congressional districts.

The League of Women Voters of Utah and Mormon Women for Ethical Government basically got what they wanted, argued Frank Chang, an attorney for the Utah State Legislature.

“What if I told you I disagree?” Judge Gibson said to him in the midst of arguments, asking for case law that even allows a case to be closed so abruptly.

During a hastily called hearing on Monday, lawyers for the League and MWEG urged the judge to reject the request. They argued that the case is far from over with claims yet to be addressed and the legislature failed to seek the proper interlocutory appeals when the time was appropriate. The injunctions she entered on Prop. 4 and the new map are preliminary, they argued, and the legislature passed new bills rewriting some of the rules of redistricting, which keeps the case alive.

When Judge Gibson asked if the legislature was essentially right that the case is basically over with the 2026 election? The plaintiffs suggested lawmakers might still bypass the courts and pass a new map in the upcoming legislative session.

“That is sort of a question mark I have in light of some statements, the public statements that have been made by certain legislators,” said Mark Gaber, an attorney for the plaintiffs. “Sen. Weiler, on his podcast, suggested the legislature could pass a new map for the 2026 election if a permanent injunction had been entered. That’s a question I have: if it’s intended by the legislature. If that’s the case? Remedial proceedings could certainly not be done as there would need to be a proceeding as to that new map.”

When Judge Gibson asked Chang about it, he said it was what “one member said in a podcast.”

“If this court is seeking to find out what the intent of the legislature is, it’s the act of the legislature. The most recent one here was what the legislature did in the special session,” he said.

In that special session, lawmakers voted to move the deadline for congressional candidate filings to March and pass a resolution condemning Judge Gibson’s ruling.

As the court hearing as going on, FOX 13 News texted Sen. Todd Weiler, R-Woods Cross, about his remarks. Sen. Weiler (who is an attorney in his day job), replied that he was explaining to listeners the difference between interlocutory and final appeals and just stating “hypotheticals” in response to any stay issued by the Utah Supreme Court.

“But I’m not aware of any plans to do that,” he wrote.

In 2018, voters approved Prop. 4, which created an independent redistricting commission to draw lines for boundaries in congress, legislature and state school board. When the legislature overrode the citizen ballot initiative and passed its own maps, the League and MWEG sued arguing that the people have a right to alter and reform their government. In particular, they alleged the congressional map that the Utah State Legislature approved was gerrymandered to favor Republicans.

The court sided with them, ruling that Prop. 4 is law and throwing out the congressional map. She ordered lawmakers to redraw a new one. They did, under protest, but she rejected their map for not meeting Prop. 4’s neutral redistricting criteria. Instead, she chose a map submitted by the plaintiffs that she declared met the tenets of Prop. 4. It has resulted in a Salt Lake County-centric district that Democratic candidates have rushed to enter, viewing it as more competitive for them.

The Utah State Legislature has argued that it has the sole constitutional right to draw boundaries in redistricting, setting up a legal showdown that will go to the Utah Supreme Court and potentially the U.S. Supreme Court.

Judge Gibson said she planned to issue a ruling before Christmas on whether to finalize the case.