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VP debate: How Vance and Walz differed from their running mates on immigration

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VP debate: How Vance and Walz differed from their running mates on immigration

Though mass deportation of immigrants in the country illegally has been a central talking point of Donald Trump’s 2024 campaign, on the national debate stage both the former president and his Republican running mate, Ohio Sen. JD Vance, have offered few details about how it would work.

Asked to explain during Tuesday’s vice presidential debate how a Trump administration would carry out what he has called “the largest deportation operation in American history,” Vance said he would start with deporting those who have committed some crime beyond illegally crossing the border. He also said he would make it more difficult for those lacking legal status to obtain jobs in the U.S., claiming that “a lot of people will go home if they can’t work for less than minimum wage in our own country.”

But he repeatedly dodged a question about whether he would separate children who are U.S. citizens from their parents, and incorrectly stated that there are “20, 25 million” immigrants in the U.S. without legal status (the widely accepted number is about 11 million).

Much like the presidential debate last month, Tuesday’s face-off between Vance and Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz, the Democratic vice presidential nominee, yielded more rhetoric on immigration than new policy prescriptions.

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Unlike at the presidential debate, in which the commentary on immigration devolved into sound bites and verbal jabs, Walz and Vance presented their respective campaign’s message with a congenial tone. For Vance, that meant blaming a host of problems — from crime to housing costs — on immigrants who are in the country illegally. For Walz, it meant blaming Trump for the failure of bipartisan border security legislation, while working to appeal to moderate voters.

Immigration is a central issue in this year’s election, and polls have shown a majority of voters want to see immigration levels reduced.

Last month, Vance stoked lies about Haitians in Springfield, Ohio, stealing and eating other residents’ pets. In an interview with CNN, he defended amplifying the rumors, saying he was willing to “create stories” to get his message across.

On Tuesday, Walz brought up Vance’s comments on Haitians, most of whom live and work in the U.S. legally under temporary protected status.

“The consequences in Springfield were the governor had to send state law enforcement to escort kindergartners to school,” Walz said. “When it becomes a talking point like this, we dehumanize and villainize other human beings.”

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Vance pivoted to talking about broader immigration policy.

“The people that I’m most worried about in Springfield, Ohio, are the American citizens who have had their lives destroyed by Kamala Harris’ open border,” he said. “It is a disgrace, Tim, and I actually think I agree with you. I think you want to solve this problem, but I don’t think that Kamala Harris does.”

During the presidential debate, Trump repeatedly returned to the topic of immigration, including when asked about the Jan. 6, 2021, insurrection, the economy and why he refused to accept that he had lost the 2020 election. Trump and Vance repeated false claims about Haitians in Springfield, which have been denounced by Ohio leaders including Republican Gov. Mike DeWine.

Walz‘s argument for solving immigration centered on his support for the failed bipartisan border bill, which would have added 1,500 border agents and resources to stem the flow of fentanyl and speed up asylum adjudications. Trump pressured House Republicans to abandon support for the bill this year.

“We had the fairest and the toughest bill on immigration that this nation’s seen,” Walz said. “It was crafted by a conservative senator from Oklahoma, James Lankford. I know him. He’s super conservative, but he’s a man of principle. Wants to get it done.”

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Harris and Walz pinning their debates on the failure of the bipartisan border security bill leaves out that “in reality, presidents have an amazing amount of existing power on immigration,” said C. Stewart Verdery Jr., who was assistant secretary for Homeland Security during the  George W. Bush administration.

Verdery, now a member of the Council on National Security and Immigration, had hoped to hear from Walz what he thinks about the vast expansion under the Biden administration of temporary legal status, such as the program that has allowed more than 500,000 Venezuelans, Nicaraguans, Cubans and Haitians to fly to the U.S. if they have a financial sponsor. Trump has vowed to deport many of those immigrants with temporary status.

As for Vance, Verdery said he had hoped the senator would be pressed on his apparent belief that immigration is a net bad — which, he said, is contrary to the research of most economists, the traditional Republican Party and moral values. He questioned, for example, whether Vance understands that mass deportations would unleash chaos on the economy and on American communities.

“You really wish they could get some more nuance on what they want to do,” Verdery said. “Especially since neither Walz nor Vance have had federal executive privilege.”

Brad Jones, a political science professor at UC Davis who studies immigration policy, said the exchange between Vance and Walz on immigration was largely nonsubstantive.

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He said Trump and Vance have been good at controlling the narrative around immigration, so Tuesday’s debate offered Walz the last chance in that type of forum to explicitly address his and Harris’ plans — and Walz missed.

“Walz did not address the false narratives of immigration propagated by the Trump campaign and instead wanted to strike a middle ground, but there is not a middle ground on an issue where the other side has zero interest in common ground,” he said. “I think Walz’s desire to attempt to appeal to possible uncommitted voters fell on deaf ears.”

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As a Felon, Trump Upends How Americans View the Presidency

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As a Felon, Trump Upends How Americans View the Presidency

A big economic package, mass deportations, maybe even some invasions of other countries. Oh, and one more item. “I’ll do my little thing tomorrow,” a busy President-elect Donald J. Trump mentioned the other night.

That little thing was the first criminal sentencing of an American president. That little thing was confirmation that Mr. Trump, just 10 days later, would become the first president to move into the White House with a rap sheet. That little thing is the latest shift in standards that once governed high office.

Mr. Trump does not really consider it a little thing, of course, given how strenuously he sought to avoid Friday’s sentencing for 34 felony counts in his hush money case. But to a remarkable degree, he has succeeded in making it a little thing in the body politic. What was once a pretty-much-guaranteed disqualifier for the presidency is now just one more political event seen through a partisan lens.

After all, no one seemed shocked after Friday’s sentencing in New York. While Mr. Trump was spared jail time or financial penalties, he effectively had the word “felon” tattooed on his record for all time unless a higher court overturns the conviction. But that development was already baked into the system. Voters knew last fall that Mr. Trump had been found guilty by a jury of his peers, and enough of them decided it was either illegitimate or not as important as other issues.

“It speaks to the moment we’re in,” said Norman L. Eisen, a former White House ethics counsel to President Barack Obama who has closely tracked Mr. Trump’s various legal cases and has founded a new organization aimed at defending democracy. “You have somebody who is an adjudicated felon 34 times over, but you also have a nation that is either so numb or so in shock that it does not know how to react.”

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And so the nation will soon witness the paradox of a newly elected president putting his hand on a Bible to swear an oath to “preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States,” the supreme law of the land, barely a week after being sentenced for violating the law.

This will be a national Rorschach test. His critics will find it appalling. His admirers will see it as vindication.

That is no accident. Mr. Trump for years has worked to discredit any and all criminal and civil cases against him as nothing more than politically motivated witch hunts and found plenty of Americans to agree with him. His supporters do not view him as a villain but as a victim. Even a significant number of opponents have grown weary of it all, or their outrage has faded into resignation.

“What is extraordinary about Trump’s behavior and record is that the electorate does not care, as it once did, that a president pay public fealty to law and norms and other traditional expectations of the office,” said Jack Goldsmith, a Harvard Law School professor and former assistant attorney general under President George W. Bush. “Trump has revolutionized how the public thinks about the presidency even before his second term has begun.”

Indeed, he has not only moved the bar for the presidency, but is attempting to do the same for senior cabinet positions and other top officials in government. He picked Pete Hegseth, a Fox News personality, to be secretary of defense despite the allegation that he raped a woman at a Republican political conference and a report that he was pushed out as head of two veterans organizations after being accused of mismanagement, drunken behavior and sexual impropriety.

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Mr. Hegseth, who has since left Fox, has insisted the encounter at the conference was consensual, and police did not file charges. But Mr. Trump has selected other candidates for top positions who have been accused of sexual misconduct themselves or failure to stop it. Most of them, like Mr. Hegseth, dispute the allegations and Mr. Trump and his allies seem willing to accept their denials. But there was a time when an incoming president would have avoided nominees with such baggage in the first place.

Mr. Trump’s allies maintain that if standards have shifted, the president-elect’s pursuers have only themselves to blame by initiating unfounded or overhyped investigations as part of what they said looked like an effort to stop a political opponent. Mr. Trump’s adversaries cannot win at the ballot box, his camp charges, so they have abused the justice system.

“Our norms have changed in what we will accept in presidents because federal and state Democratic officials debased prosecution by deploying it as a political tool to influence presidential elections,” said John Yoo, another former Bush Justice Department official now teaching at the University of California, Berkeley.

A YouGov survey released on Friday found that 48 percent of adults said they believed that Mr. Trump had committed crimes in the hush money case, while 28 percent did not and 25 percent were not sure. Following the sentencing, 19 percent said it was too harsh, 24 percent said it was about right and 39 percent did not think it was harsh enough.

On the broader question of whether Mr. Trump was politically singled out for the worst treatment, most Americans disagreed. Forty-two percent said they thought Mr. Trump was actually treated more leniently than other people and 14 percent said he was treated about the same, while 30 percent said he was treated more harshly. That 30 percent clearly reflects Mr. Trump’s hard-core base, and enough other voters evidently concluded that they were not bothered enough to vote against him and cared more about inflation, immigration or other issues.

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The hush money case was not the only legal issue confronting Mr. Trump, though. He was indicted three other times, twice for trying to overturn the 2020 election and hold onto power illegitimately and a third time for taking classified documents that were not his when he left the White House and refusing to give them back even after being subpoenaed. None of those cases made it to trial before the election, but voters were extensively told about the evidence.

Moreover, Mr. Trump lost several other cases that in the past would have been hard for a would-be president to overcome. He was found liable for sexual abuse in one civil case and business fraud in another. And his Trump Organization was convicted in criminal court of 17 counts of tax fraud and other crimes. He will be the first president with judgments of this scale against him to take the oath of office as well.

“Essential to the efforts of the founders was their ultimate respect for the citizens who they believed would be informed and for the most part moral and sensible,” said Ty Cobb, a former White House lawyer for Mr. Trump who has become a critic. “Sadly, we blew past all that somehow.”

Still, the only criminal conviction of Mr. Trump personally was the hush money case, in which he was found guilty of falsifying business records to hide $130,000 paid to a woman who said she had a sexual tryst with him while his wife Melania was pregnant with their son. He denied the affair, but made the payments through a fixer anyway.

Mr. Yoo said that the nature of the hush money case worked against Mr. Trump’s adversaries because it seemed less momentous than the other three criminal indictments.

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“If the Democratic lawfare campaign had actually convicted Trump of a crime related to Jan. 6, we might think of Trump differently,” Mr. Yoo said. “But pursuing him for bookkeeping shenanigans to conceal hush money payments showed that Trump’s opponents would stoop to the most inconsequential legal charges to try to stop him.”

Even some who have been critical of Mr. Trump questioned whether the hush money prosecution was worth it, especially since it was brought by a Democratic district attorney who reopened the matter after his predecessor opted against filing charges.

“Of all the cases against Mr. Trump, the New York case was the most partisan and least meritorious,” said Michael W. McConnell, a Stanford Law School professor and former federal appeals court judge appointed by Mr. Bush. “The conviction says more about the low standards of prosecutorial integrity in the once-vaunted Manhattan D.A. office than about Mr. Trump.”

Even the judge’s sentence seemed to undermine perceptions of the case’s seriousness. Rather than try to impose jail time or financial penalties, the judge gave Mr. Trump what is called unconditional discharge, a concession to the reality that an actual penalty was implausible 10 days before the inauguration.

At the end of the day, beyond the minimum qualifications in the Constitution, the standards for who is fit to be president are determined not by politicians or a judge or jury but by the voters. In this case, the voters gave their verdict long before the official sentencing.

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And that is no little thing.

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Gov. Newsom cut fire budget by $100M months before lethal California fires: report

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Gov. Newsom cut fire budget by 0M months before lethal California fires: report

California Gov. Gavin Newsom cut funding for wildfire and forest resilience by more than $100 million just months before the wildfires currently ravaging Los Angeles broke out, according to a report.

However, a review of the state’s annual budgets under Newsom shows that direct spending on fire prevention has increased dramatically over the last six years.

The budget, signed in June and covering the 2024-25 fiscal year, eliminated $101 million from seven “wildfire and forest resilience” programs, according to an analysis according to an analysis by the state’s Legislative Analyst’s Office and reported in Newsweek.

The California fires, responsible for destroying more than 10,000 buildings in the Los Angeles area, are still not contained.

CALIFORNIA WILDFIRES DEVASTATE LOS ANGELES COUNTY, KILLING 5 AND THREATENING THOUSANDS OF HOMES

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Fire crews battle the Kenneth Fire in the West Hills section of Los Angeles Thursday, Jan. 9, 2025.  (Ethan Swope/AP)

Cal Fire had a $5 million reduction in spending on fuel reduction teams, including funds used to pay for vegetation management work by the California National Guard, the report noted.

LA FIRE SOUNDED ALARM ON BUDGET CUTS IMPACTING WILDFIRE RESPONSE: MEMO

Other changes:

  • $28 million cut from multiple state conservancies that expand wildfire resilience
  • $12 million cut from a “home hardening” experiment that would protect homes from wildfires
  • $8 million cut from monitoring and research spending, mostly dedicated to Cal Fire and state universities
  • $4 million cut from the forest legacy program, which encourages landowners to manage their properties
  • $3 million cut from funding for an inter-agency forest data hub
Gavin Newsom surveying fire damage

California Gov. Gavin Newsom, right, surveys damage in Pacific Palisades with Cal Fire’s Nick Schuler Wednesday, Jan. 8, 2025, in Pacific Palisades, Calif. (Jeff Gritchen/MediaNews Group/Orange County Register via Getty Images)

Newsom’s director of communications, Izzy Gardon, called the budget cuts a “ridiculous lie,” in a statement to Fox News Digital Friday night.

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ESSENTIAL PHONE NUMBERS FOR LOS ANGELES-AREA RESIDENTS AND HOW YOU CAN HELP

“The governor has doubled the size of our firefighting army, built the world’s largest aerial firefighting fleet and the state has increased the forest management ten-fold since he took office,” she wrote. “Facts matter.”

California Wildfires Photo Gallery

The devastation of the Palisades Fire in the Pacific Palisades neighborhood of Los Angeles Friday, Jan. 10, 2025.  (AP Photo/John Locher)

His office attached statistics that refer to the overall increase in spending and personnel over a number of years since he took office in 2019, as opposed to commenting on the most recent cuts.

A Fox News review of the current state budget showed that the state earmarked $3.79 billion and 10,742 employees for fire protection, a steep increase from the 2018-2019 budget, which allocated just over $2 billion and 5,829 employees for fire protection.

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Cal Fire did not immediately respond to a request for comment as of 8 p.m. Friday.

EDITOR’S NOTE: This story has been updated to show that California’s state spending on fire protection has increased since Gavin Newsom became governor.

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Smart business? Currying favor? Why big tech leaders are friending and funding Trump

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Smart business? Currying favor? Why big tech leaders are friending and funding Trump

Four years ago, several of California’s most influential tech titans determined that then-President Trump was such a threat to democracy they barred him from posting on their social media platforms.

“We believe the risks of allowing the President to continue to use our service during this period are simply too great,” Facebook Chief Executive Mark Zuckerberg wrote on his platform on Jan. 7, 2021 — one day after Trump supporters stormed the U.S. Capitol in a violent attempt to keep him in power.

Today, some of the same tech leaders, including Zuckerberg, are taking a strikingly different tone as Trump prepares to retake the White House. They are meeting with him personally, touting the business opportunities they see under his next administration, announcing policies that appear designed to appease him and bankrolling the pageantry of his return with huge donations to his inaugural fund.

On Tuesday, four years to the day since his post announcing Trump’s Facebook suspension, Zuckerberg posted a video arguing that the “complex systems” his company has built to moderate dangerous, illicit and misleading content have led to “too much censorship” — a favorite argument of Trump’s — and will be dramatically scaled back.

Calling the recent elections “a cultural tipping point,” Zuckerberg said Meta — which owns Facebook, Instagram and WhatsApp — will “get rid of fact checkers” and instead rely on users to challenge misleading posts. The company will greatly reduce its content restrictions on some of Trump’s favorite political subjects, such as immigration and gender, he added, and ratchet up the amount of political content its algorithms steer to users.

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It also will move remaining safety and content moderation teams out of California and into Texas, which Zuckerberg suggested would provide a less “biased” environment, and work directly with Trump “to push back on governments around the world that are going after American companies and pushing to censor more.”

Industry experts say the changes are part of a broader shift in public political posturing by big tech’s heavy hitters — one that began long before Trump’s November win but has escalated greatly since, and is greater than the perfunctory bowing of pragmatic business leaders with the changeover in government every four years.

Some have defended the shift. In an interview with the Associated Press last month, Salesforce CEO Marc Benioff credited it to the incoming Trump administration showing more interest than the Biden administration in industry concerns and expertise.

“I think a lot of people realize there is a lot of incredible people like Elon Musk in the tech industry and in the business community,” Benioff said. “If you tap the power and expertise of the best in America to make the best of America, that’s a great vision.”

Others say the shift reflects a financial calculation, in line with the libertarian streak that has long run deep in tech circles, that Trump’s penchant for deregulation and disdain for content moderation — which he has claimed is biased against conservatives — will be good for the bottom line, the experts said.

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The tech executives see an opportunity to wipe their hands of the expensive responsibility to clean up their platforms, the experts said, and a useful excuse to do so under the guise of free speech — an ideal Trump has often cited in order to ridicule platform moderation.

“It is a recognizing that Trump’s power is enormous, as we’ve seen through the election, that he’s definitely here to stay for these four years, [and] that the MAGA movement is the biggest social movement in the United States,” said Ramesh Srinivasan, director of the UC Center for Global Digital Cultures. “When it comes to Meta and these big companies, their interest is in maintaining if not increasing their valuation and/or profitability, and they’re gonna go with whatever the easiest ways are to achieve just that.”

That posture is unsurprising and financially savvy, he and other experts said, but also alarming — particularly in light of Trump’s promises to wield the Justice Department as a political weapon against his enemies and the tech leaders’ willingness to counteract that threat with cash and other consolations to the White House, they said.

Sarah T. Roberts, co-founder and faculty director of the UCLA Center for Critical Internet Inquiry, said the tech donations to Trump’s inaugural fund were “quite a vulgar demonstration” that in order “to succeed in the marketplace in the next four years, it will require currying favor with the president.”

A major problem is that decisions by Meta, X and others to capitulate to Trump by tossing away years of accumulated know-how and expertise in the area of content moderation are not in the best interests of platform users around the world who are harmed when such safeguards aren’t in place, said Roberts, author of “Behind the Screen: Content Moderation in the Shadows of Social Media.”

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The tech leaders know that, too, but don’t seem to care, she said.

“They know from their own internal research that there is harm without measures and efforts to intervene, and they are making very calculated decisions to ignore their own evidence, dismantle those teams, [and] sell out their own work and workers,” Roberts said.

Also at work, said Rob Lalka, a business professor at Tulane University, is a long-running strategy among big tech leaders to reshape American capitalism in their favor by gaining influence in Washington.

“They are getting involved in politics in ways that go beyond the money,” he said. “They’re interested in power.”

Money and power

Zuckerberg, Elon Musk of X, Tim Cook of Apple, Jeff Bezos of Amazon, Sundar Pichai of Google and other leaders in the cryptocurrency and AI industries who have backed Trump control platforms and services that play an outsize role in shaping civil discourse and political debate, experts said.

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An important check on their sweeping powers is government regulation, which has increased in recent years as countries grapple with the threats such platforms pose to consumers and democracy, including through the spread of misinformation and hate speech.

Individual nations and the European Union have increasingly issued mandates for content moderation and the safeguarding of children, issued take-down orders for content deemed illegal or dangerous, and filed antitrust and other litigation to break up or fine the companies for anticompetitive business practices.

Amazon, Apple, Google, Meta and X — formerly Twitter — have all faced antitrust litigation or review in recent years, some of which originated under the first Trump administration. None responded to requests for comment, though they have denied wrongdoing in court.

They or their chief executives also have all pledged donations to Trump’s inaugural fund, which pays for galas, parades and dinners.

Meta and Apple’s Cook have said they will contribute $1 million to Trump’s fund. Google has said it’s giving $1 million and that the inauguration will be streamed on YouTube. Amazon, led by multibillionaire Jeff Bezos, has committed to giving $1 million in cash plus a $1-million in-kind contribution by streaming the inauguration on Amazon Video.

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Musk, the world’s richest man, spent more than a quarter of a billion dollars — the most of any single donor in the 2024 election cycle — to help reelect Trump and Republicans in the House and Senate, including through two separate political action committees, campaign finance filings show.

Musk has been in Trump’s inner circle ever since, and Trump has appointed him to lead a new “Department of Government Efficiency.”

Bill Baer, former head of the Justice Department’s Antitrust Division in the Obama administration, said the tech leaders are “currying favor” — which he added was “not a crazy thing for them to be doing” given Trump’s focus on loyalty.

“They want to make sure that, if there is an enemies list being compiled, they’re not on it,” Baer said.

It’s also unclear how the Trump administration is going to handle tech platforms or the investigations into their operations, Baer said. Both Trump and Vice President-elect JD Vance have “expressed some concern about tech platforms,” and there “seems to be a mixed view among Republicans in Congress,” he said.

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Baer’s concern, however, is that the Trump White House will make good on its promises to “control law enforcement in a way that would allow it to protect its friends and to pursue its enemies, and that includes people who are currently being sued on antitrust grounds as monopolists, as well as people being investigated for those behaviors.”

If Trump does so, the tech leaders’ willingness to pay into his inaugural fund and appease him in other ways will raise legal questions, Baer said — especially if the antitrust cases against them suddenly go away, or they get off easy.

It’s “something that the public ought to be concerned about” Baer said. “Our whole economy is built on the notion that competition results in innovation, in price competition, in quality improvement.”

‘Everyone wants to be my friend’

At a December news conference, Trump remarked on the “much less hostile” reception he has received from tech leaders.

“The first term, everybody was fighting me. In this term, everybody wants to be my friend,” Trump said.

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When asked about Meta’s announcement Tuesday — which followed another naming Dana White, chief executive of Ultimate Fighting Championship and a staunch Trump loyalist, to Meta’s board — Trump simply said Zuckerberg has “come a long way.”

The remark was a nod to the argument by Trump and other Republicans that big tech is steeped in liberal bias and that its algorithms and content moderation are designed to help Democrats and hurt Republicans.

Experts say there is plenty of evidence to show that bias is a myth — not least of all the latest actions of tech’s most powerful leaders.

But regardless of those leaders’ personal politics, they have all “drawn the same conclusion” that they must stroke Trump’s ego, Roberts said.

“If that’s the price of doing business, I guess they are prepared to do it — while selling out a lot of other people and putting them in danger.”

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Lalka, of Tulane and author of “The Venture Alchemists: How Big Tech Turned Profits Into Power,” said the fact that Trump is surrounded by tech leaders reflects how vastly Silicon Valley has shifted its posture on politics since 2016 — when venture capitalist Peter Thiel raised industry eyebrows by donating $1.25 million to Trump’s first campaign.

Lalka said Americans underestimate, and should be better informed on, the degree to which Silicon Valley types have since infiltrated government — Vance, among others, also has deep ties to Thiel — and how much they stand to permanently alter American governance to better serve their own free market interests.

Musk’s “Department of Government Efficiency” and the aligned plans under Project 2025 to fire career civil servants in favor of Trump loyalists are perfect examples, he said.

“What they’re arguing for here is much more Silicon Valley of an idea — which is that anything that is legacy, that is traditional, needs to be rejected in favor of the new, the novel, the innovative, the technological,” Lalka said. “Do we have that appetite for risk taking based on these people who are coming in? As a general public, I’m not sure about that.”

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