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Lia Thomas speaks for first time since UPenn agreed to Trump admin resolution to protect women’s sports
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Prominent transgender swimmer Lia Thomas spoke in an interview for the first time since the University of Pennsylvania agreed with President Donald Trump’s administration in June to strip the athlete’s swimming records from the women’s program archives, and adopt a policy to keep biological males out of women’s sports.
In an interview with WHYY, Thomas did not directly address the agreement with the Trump administration, but did send a message to those who don’t believe biological male trans athletes should compete in the women’s category.
“You don’t get to pick and choose when you see me as a woman. You don’t get to say, ‘You can be a woman in these situations, but not in these,’ because you would never do that to a cis woman,” Thomas said. “But for trans women, a lot of people think ‘Oh, it’s okay for me to be the arbiter and pick and choose when I see them as women.’”
University of Pennsylvania transgender athlete Lia Thomas swims in a preliminary heat for the 500-meter freestyle at the NCAA Swimming and Diving Championships Thursday, March 17, 2022, at Georgia Tech in Atlanta. (AP Photo/John Bazemore)
Thomas gave the response when asked how the athlete would address people who aren’t against rights for transgender people, but are in support of protecting women’s sports from male inclusion. Thomas went on to suggest that Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) prevents trans athletes from having a competitive advantage.
“There are massive losses to muscle mass, strength and endurance, and to make blanket statements like, ‘Oh, I see you as a woman, but you just shouldn’t compete in women’s sports’ is both transphobic and not reflective of the realities of being trans and being on HRT,” Thomas said.
A study by the Macdonald–Laurier Institute, a Canadian think tank, argued that “there is neither a medical intervention nor a clever philosophical argument that can make it fair for trans women to compete in women’s sport.”
UPENN AGREES TO FOLLOW TRUMP’S MANDATE ON PROTECTING WOMEN’S SPORTS AFTER LIA THOMAS INVESTIGATION
“For trans women who have successfully suppressed testosterone for 12 months, the extent of muscle/strength loss is only an approximately (and modest) -5% after 12 months,” the authors said. “Testosterone suppression does not remove the athletic advantage acquired under high testosterone conditions at puberty, while the male musculoskeletal advantage is retained.”
Thomas also opened up on being in a relationship with a woman prior to making the decision to undergo gender-affirming surgery. Thomas recalled the moment in the summer of 2018 when the former collegiate swimmer openly admitted, “I’m trans” for the first time.
“I and my girlfriend at the time, were staying on campus to do a summer class. She was and has continued to be a very staunch queer ally. And she invited me to go with her to a pride parade as like allies to be supporting. And as a closeted trans women, I was like ‘Yes, absolutely I would love to go hang out with cool, queer people,’” Thomas said. “That evening when we got home, I came out to her. And I think that might have been the first time I said ‘I’m trans,’ out loud. And that was a very huge milestone, and she was incredibly supportive.”
Thomas competed for UPenn women’s swimming team in the 2021-22 season, after previously competing for the men’s team. Thomas went on to win NCAA Division I national championship in the 500-yard freestyle, earned three All-America honors at the NCAA Championships, and was named the High Point Swimmer of the Meet at the Ivy League Championships.
Multiple women who competed alongside Thomas that season, both UPenn teammates and competitors from other schools, have spoken out about their experience sharing the pool and locker room with Thomas.
Former University of Kentucky swimmer and OutKick host Riley Gaines infamously tied with Thomas at the NCAA championships that year, and went on to file a lawsuit and become a well-known women’s sports rights advocate in the years that followed. Gaines’ lawsuit against the NCAA includes a plaintiff list of several other Thomas opponents that year, including former NC State swimmer Kylee Alons and former Kentucky swimmer Kaitlyn Wheeler.
The lawsuit partially advanced past motions to dismiss on Sept. 27.
Another lawsuit filed by three of Thomas’ former UPenn teammates has also been filed against the university and the Ivy League. The plaintiffs are former UPenn swimmers Grace Estabrook, Margot Kaczorowski and Ellen Holmquist.
Fellow former UPenn swimmer Paula Scanlan was the first of Thomas’ teammates to speak out about the situation, and the only to do so during and shortly after the 2022 season. The others have waited years to come forward with their experiences.
Former UPenn swimmer Monika Burzynska said she was assigned the locker just one over from Lia Thomas’ when the transgender athlete joined the women’s swim team in 2021.
“I thought it must be terrible to feel like you’re trapped in the wrong body. Just be so out of touch with who you really are,” Burzynska previously told Fox News Digital. “You have these issues that are from afar and you never really quite think they’re going to touch you personally until you’re on a team with Lia Thomas and your locker is directly next to this biological male. And you would have never believed that you’d be facing this issue directly.
“And then when that happens, your views change where you still feel sorry for this person because they’re clearly so deeply lost. But then it turns into more, ‘OK, this is not fair,’” Burzynska added.
Meanwhile, Thomas was the recipient of the Voice of Inspiration Award at Rainbow Labs’ Violet Visionary Awards on Thursday. The event is sponsored by both the Los Angeles Dodgers and Los Angeles Football Club, among others.
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Robert Bryan is a licensed forester from Harpswell and author or co-author of numerous publications on managing forests for wildlife. Paul Larrivee is a licensed forester from New Gloucester who manages both private and public lands, and a former Maine Forest Service forester.
In November 2025, the Department of Environmental Protection (DEP) approved a conservation plan and forest management plan as mitigation for impacts from the NECEC transmission corridor that runs from the Quebec border 53 miles to central Maine.
As professional foresters, we were astonished by the lack of scientific credibility in the definition of “mature forest habitat” that was approved by DEP, and the business-as-usual commercial forestry proposed for over 80% of the conservation area.
The DEP’s approval requires NECEC to establish and protect 50,000 acres to be managed for mature-forest wildlife species and wildlife travel corridors along riparian areas and between mature forest habitats. The conservation plan will establish an area adjacent to the new transmission corridor to be protected under a conservation easement held by the state. Under this plan, 50% of the area will be managed as mature forest habitat.
Under the forest management plan, a typical even-aged stand will qualify as “mature forest habitat” once 50 feet tall, which is only about 50 years old. These stands will lack large trees that provide wildlife denning and nesting sites, multiple vegetation layers that mature-forest birds use for nesting and feeding habitats and large decaying trees and downed logs that provide habitat for insects, fungi and small mammals, which in turn benefit larger predators.
Another major concern is that contrary to the earlier DEP order, the final approval allows standard sustainable forestry operations on the 84% of the forest located outside the stream buffers and special habitats. These stands may be harvested as soon as they achieve the “mature forest habitat” definition, as long as 50% of the conserved land is maintained as “mature.”
After the mature forest goal is reached, clearcutting or other heavy harvesting could occur on thousands of acres every 10 years. Because the landowner — Weyerhaeuser — owns several hundred thousand acres in the vicinity, any reductions in harvesting within the conservation area can simply be offset by cutting more heavily nearby. As a result, the net
mature-forest benefit of the conservation area will be close to zero.
Third, because some mature stands will be cut before the 50% mature forest goal is reached, it will take 40 years — longer than necessary — to reach the goal.
In the near future the Board of Environmental Protection (BEP) will consider an appeal from environmental organizations of the plan approval. To ensure that ecologically mature forest develops in a manner that meets the intent of the DEP/BEP orders, several things need to change.
First and most important, to ensure that characteristics of mature forest habitat have time to develop it is critical that the definition include clear requirements for the minimum number of large-diameter (hence more mature) trees, adjusted by forest type. At least half the stocking of an area of mature forest habitat should be in trees at least 10 inches in diameter, and at least 20% of stands beyond the riparian buffers should have half the stocking in trees greater than or equal to 16 inches in diameter.
Current research as well as guidelines for defining ecologically mature forests, such as those in Maine Audubon’s Forestry for Maine Birds, should be followed.
Second, limits should be placed on the size and distribution of clearcut or “shelterwood” harvest patches so that even-aged harvests are similar in size to those created by typical natural forest disturbance patterns. These changes will help ensure that the mature-forest block and connectivity requirements of the orders are met.
Third, because the forest impacts have already occurred, no cutting should be allowed in the few stands that meet or exceed the DEP-approved definition — which needs to be revised as described above — until the 50% or greater mature-forest goal is reached.
If allowed to stand, the definitions and management described in the forest management plan would set a terrible precedent for conserving mature forests in Maine. The BEP should uphold the appeal and establish standards for truly mature forest habitat.
Human remains were discovered Wednesday in the water in Shirley, Massachusetts, and authorities suspect foul play.
Police in Shirley said in a social media post at 7:15 p.m. that they responded to “a suspicious object in the water near the Maritime Veterans Memorial Bridge on Shaker Road.” Massachusetts State Police later said the object was believed to be human remains.
The bridge crosses Catacoonamug Brook near Phoenix Pond.
The office of Middlesex County District Attorney Marian Ryan said a group of young people was walking in the area around 5:30 p.m. and “reported seeing what appeared to be something consistent with a body part in the water.”
Foul play is suspected, Ryan’s office said.
Authorities will continue investigating overnight into Thursday, and an increased police presence is expected in the area.
No further information was immediately available.
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