CLEVELAND, Ohio — Ohio has two Issue 1s appearing on the statewide ballot in consecutive elections just months apart, a development with the potential to confuse voters about which one is which.

On Today in Ohio, we’re talking about how Ohioans who voted no on Issue 1 in August will likely vote yes on Issue 1 in November, and vice versa.

Listen online here.

Editor Chris Quinn hosts our daily half-hour news podcast, with impact editor Leila Atassi, editorial board member Lisa Garvin and content director Laura Johnston.

You’ve been sending Chris lots of thoughts and suggestions on our from-the-newsroom text account, in which he shares what we’re thinking about at cleveland.com. You can sign up here: https://joinsubtext.com/chrisquinn.

Here’s what we’re asking about today:

How confusing is it that the abortion amendment on the November ballot is labeled Issue 1. Didn’t we vote on Issue 1 already?

Jim Jordan had another of his moments Wednesday, as his committee grilled the attorney general. How did that go down?

The Ohio Redistricting Commission, which has never actually done what it is supposed to do, with every member defying the Ohio constitution, met Friday to begin redrawing the state legislative maps. How far did they get?

We’ve talked a good bit about the rapidly developing plans to open up the Cleveland lakefront and riverfront, and now we know how Mayor Justin Bibb proposes to pay for a lot of it. How?

A storm a few weeks back wreaked havoc on suburbs like Cleveland Heights, where power was out for days in some neighborhoods. One man living in such a neighborhood did have power, while his neighbors’ homes were dark. It comes down to solar. Is this a good strategy for grappling with climate change?

Interesting that we’re talking bout this while Leila is about to fly out of it. How low does Cleveland Hopkins come in on the latest airport satisfaction survey?

Cleveland has used the carrot. Now it’s using the stick. How many homeowners are being prosecuted because of lead poisoning of children?

We marveled last week that Cuyahoga County is extending the contract of the vendor who has been providing atrocious food at the Cuyahoga County jail. The county has offered more explanations for what seems like an inexplicable decision. What are they?

You have to love when neighborhood residents fight city hall, or in this case, the school district. And over trees. What’s the interesting battle going on in which residents are to protect some trees from the chain saws of the Cleveland school district?

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Read the automated transcript below. Because it’s a computer-generated transcript, it contains many errors and misspellings.

Chris (00:01.922)

We’ll be talking today on Today in Ohio about more of the nonsense that happens on Capitol Hill. We often talk on this podcast about the histrionics and hyperbole used by the people who embarrass Ohioans who are in elected office. And I sent out a text this morning asking people to suggest the Ohioans who don’t do that, who lead with decorum and propriety. I say Mike DeWine is somebody like that. We’re hoping to hear from him.

Lisa (00:26.102)

like the wine, something like that. We’re hoping to hear from Ohioans about others they celebrate. Maybe just try to celebrate with people who don’t act like they’re being treated on capital bills. We’ll have less of it. It is today in Ohio. We need a podcast discussion from even.

Chris (00:29.282)

from Ohioans about others they celebrate. Maybe if we start celebrating the people that don’t act like nincompoops on Capitol Hill, we’ll have less of it. It is Today in Ohio, the news podcast discussion from cleveland.com and The Plain Dealer. I’m Chris Quinn here with Lisa Garvin, Courtney Astolfi and Laura Johnston. Courtney, we’re gonna start with you today. How confusing is it? The abortion amendment on the November ballot is labeled issue one.

Lisa (00:56.422)

We have two more. We voted on issue one of Reggie this year, and the decision on this one is the opposite of that one for most people. Aren’t they going to be confused?

Chris (00:57.034)

Didn’t we vote on issue one already this year? And the decision on this one is the opposite of that one for most people. Aren’t they going to be confused?

courtney (01:07.839)

Yeah, I think it’s pretty fair to say it’s pretty dang confusing here. Like you said, we had an issue one in August. People who are pro-choice largely went no on that. Now we have issue one coming up in November, and if you’re pro-choice, you’re likely voting yes on that. And same with vice versa if you’re, if you’re pro-life. So I, you know, it doesn’t help here that we’re talking about two back to back elections that are only a matter of a handful of weeks apart between August and November.

Lisa (01:07.97)

Yeah, I think it’s pretty fair to say it’s pretty confusing here. Like you said, we had an issue one in August. People who are pro-choice largely went no on that. Now we have issue one coming up in November. And if you’re pro-choice, you’re likely voting yes on that. And same with vice versa if you’re pro-line. So it doesn’t help here that we’re talking about two back-to-back elections that are only a matter of a handful of weeks apart between August and November. And that’s because in Ohio, we start our numbering

courtney (01:34.979)

And that’s because in Ohio, we start our numbering of ballot issues with number one for each new election, no matter when that election happens or how close it is to the previous election. This practice of numbering issues dates back to 1954. And back then it was kind of thought of as a way to stop voter confusion. But now this year’s events, Republican lawmakers are saying this is weird and we need to change this so people aren’t confused.

Lisa (01:38.024)

of ballot issues with number one for each new election, no matter when that election happens or how close it is to the previous election. This practice of numbering issues dates back to 1954. And back then, it was kind of thought of as a way to stop voter confusion. But now, at this year’s events, Republican lawmakers are saying this is weird and we need to change this so we can’t have any views. So there’s a group that are putting forth a bill

courtney (02:04.731)

So there’s a group that are putting forth a bill to avoid this whole numbering system. And basically, if this passes, it would mean that all issues just kind of go up indefinitely. So we’d have issue one next year, the next year we’d have issue two, 50 years from now we could be at state issue 99 or whatever it is. And this is a direct response to what we’re seeing this year on the abortion and constitution amendments.

Lisa (02:08.004)

this whole numbering system and basically if this passes it would mean that all issues just kind of go up indefinitely so we’d have issue one next year the next year we’d have issue two you know 50 years from now we could be at state issue 95 or whatever it is and this is a direct response to what we’re seeing this year on the abortion constitution.

Chris (02:31.05)

Well, that’s kind of stupid too, because there are issue numbers on some elections where we’re already over a hundred because of the local issues. Why don’t they do it by year? You know, 23-1, 23-2, 23-3, and then the next year you can start over at one. But if they just keep going, we’re going to end up at, you know, a hundred thousand and more. There are elections where we have more than a hundred numbers on ballots across the state because all of the numbers are sequential. So if there’s a tax issue and…

Lisa (02:51.379)

hahahaha

Chris (03:00.806)

Rocky River, that could be issue 77.

courtney (03:04.639)

Yeah. So, you know, one of the sponsors of this bill, Lebanon Republican Adam Matthews says that the numbering system isn’t, you know, locked in tight. If we do change how we number issues that could be up for debate and we could see changes there. It’s worth noting that other States do have different ways of dealing with this. So there are some options for Ohio. If they feel like this is the change that needs to be made, like in South Dakota, for example.

Lisa (03:16.546)

that could be up for debate and we could see changes there. It’s worth noting that other states do have different ways of dealing with this, so there are some options for Ohio if they feel like this is the change that needs to be made. Like in South Dakota, for example, the ballot issues are letters. So you start with A and go to Z, and then only when you hit Z do you start then again over at A. In California, it’s different too. It starts over at the number one every decade.

courtney (03:31.175)

the ballot issues are lettered. So you start with A and go to Z and then only when you hit Z do you start then again over at A. In California, it’s different too. It starts over at the number one every decade. So you’re not hitting the same numbers anytime close to each other.

Lisa (03:46.76)

getting the same numbers and in certain states. That’s the best way to end work. That’s the way to end work. You might just don’t get why you’re not using it.

Chris (03:50.282)

That doesn’t make any more sense to me than what we do. I mean, I just don’t get why we don’t use the last two numbers of the year. That makes it simple and you wouldn’t have these complicated situations. Glad that they’re looking at it, but I guess these guys didn’t really study mathematics in.

Lisa (04:06.278)

I would like to point out though that this wouldn’t be an issue if we didn’t have an illegal August election.

Chris (04:11.73)

Yeah, well, and there was a great line in the story because as Courtney pointed out, if you favor abortion rights, you voted no in August, you’ll vote yes in November. And somebody said, well, we should declare detente and everybody that had a no sign in their yard in August should trade it with somebody that had a yes sign because they’re switching sides and they’d save money on signs. That shows the silliness of our numbering system.

courtney (04:13.788)

Right.

Chris (04:39.326)

We’ll have to see if this bill gets legs or if they bring more common sense to it than is there now You’re listening to Today in Ohio Jim Jordan had another of his moments Wednesday as his committee grilled the Attorney General Lisa it’s embarrassing every time you see his face on a television screen. He is ridiculous. How did it go down?

Lisa (04:59.45)

It was a clown show. I mean, yesterday the House Judiciary Committee heard testimony from Attorney General Merrick Garland.

about allegations that the Department of Justice investigations into Donald Trump are politicized and that they’re protecting Joe Biden in his, in the probe of his son, Hunter Biden. And Jordan was cranking out the soundbites for Fox and they had Republicans were shouting over Garland’s testimony. Jordan at one point said, you wonder why four or five Americans believe there are two standards of justice in our great country. But Garland, who’s pretty mild mannered in most

Lisa (05:37.372)

not to take orders from the president, Congress, or anyone else about who or what to investigate. He said the rule of law applies to everybody. He says, I’m not the president’s lawyer and I’m not the Congress’s prosecutor. He said the Department of Justice works for the American people and that Biden did not order the Trump indictments. And to suggestions that Garland was in contempt,

I mean, the Democrat from California, Eric Swalwell, really let it fly. He said Jordan has failed to respond to the subpoena from the January 6th committee. You know, he was a witness to one of the greatest crimes committed in the USA, refuses to help the country. And he says, we’re getting lectured about contempt. You’ve got to be kidding me. And he was doing this as Jordan was leaving the chamber.

Chris (06:22.374)

It gets back to what I was saying at the top of the podcast. There’s a legitimate reason to talk to Merrick Garland about what’s going on. There are people that have questions about largely raised by people like Jim Jordan and other than income poops. But there are people that have questions about this. And if our elected leaders sat with decorum, asked him sensible questions, allowed him to answer, America might learn something and they might have some confidence in their elected leaders to get the job done. But you’re right. This is all.

just to get on Fox to rally some fringe part of the base to think, wow, look at Jim Jordan, he’s sticking it to the man instead of doing their work, instead of doing their business. We’re on the verge of a government shutdown and this is the circus that America is watching rather than doing it straight. It gets back to what I said. Who are the politicians that we’ve elected from Northeast Ohio to keep their heads down and do their jobs?

Lisa (07:18.334)

And they were still trying to change the January 6 narrative. I can’t think of the woman’s name right now. It’s not in front of me, but one of the Congress people, she was like, well, you know, January 6th was just grandmas and strollers. It’s like, no, nobody’s going to believe that, but that’s what they keep cranking out.

Chris (07:31.367)

Yeah, right.

Chris (07:35.89)

Yeah, because they’re playing to a very tiny portion of the population. They’re abusing their positions, using their visibility to rally a base instead of doing what they’re sworn to do, which is to serve the American people. Sad day. You’re listening to Today in Ohio. The Ohio Redistricting Commission, which has never actually done what it is supposed to do with every member defying the Ohio constitution, met Friday to begin redrawing the state legislative maps again.

Laura, how far did they get?

laura (08:06.875)

They actually have maps. They got passed without any Democratic support onto the public hearing. So they’re not final by any chance, say anyway, but they’ll start showing them to people on Friday. And they’re not as bad as you might expect. So this set of maps gives the Republicans an advantage in about 63% of Ohio House districts. That’s 62 of 99, nearly 70% of the Senate districts. That’s 23.

of 33. So those are still super majorities and that’s according to Senate Majority Floor Leader Rob McCauley. But they currently hold 67 of 99 House seats and 26 of 33 Senate seats. So they say they listened to Democrats for conversations they had, though the Democrats saw these maps for the very first time yesterday afternoon.

Chris (09:00.15)

So there was secret map making going on. The whole time that they were pretending to squabble over who would lead the commission. They were in a back room somewhere drawing the maps out of the public eye. And now they’ve foisted them upon us. There will be some hearings so that people can talk about it. What’s next?

laura (09:02.435)

Yes, there was secret map making going on!

laura (09:17.304)

Right.

Well, they’ll have to have those hearings and then they’ll come back again to discuss that and vote. And remember, if they can pass it without any democratic support at all, they’ll only last for four years. If they pass it with democratic support, they’ll last for double that. So they actually, they haven’t even agreed, I don’t think, to rules. They have not agreed to rules. And Frank Lerose says, that’s okay. You don’t really have to agree to rules. The Constitution doesn’t require it.

And one of the things the Democrats didn’t like is where these public meetings are going to be held. There’s going to be one Friday at Deer Creek Lodge and Conference Center, south of Columbus, Monday at Punderson Manor and Lodge in Geauga County, and Tuesday at the Ohio Senate Finance Committee Room. And they’re saying, look, you’re putting these, at these state parks that aren’t near any population centers. I mean, Punderson’s kind of in the middle of nowhere. They’re saying, oh, Deer Creek’s really close to Columbus, Cincinnati, and Dayton,

Anybody can go if they want, but I don’t know how many people are going to get to show up at these things.

Chris (10:21.066)

This thing is probably not worth fighting over because the fight is going to be about dumping these guys altogether from drawing maps, which is what is likely to be on the ballot in November 2024. The only way Ohioans are going to get any semblance of fair representation is to kick the Frank LaRoses and those guys out of the process, not have elected officials beyond there. That’s what the former Chief Justice, Maureen O’Connor, is working so hard on. So

So you said that these will last for four years, even if they don’t have democratic support. I don’t think they’ll last that long. If Ohioans change the rules next fall, we would very quickly have a new set of maps after that.

laura (11:03.187)

They did come up with their chair finally after fighting for a week. I don’t believe that was a made up fight. I believe these people can’t really, they didn’t learn in kindergarten how to get along with others. But it’s Keith Faber who is the state auditor as their co-chair.

Chris (11:19.774)

All right, you’re listening to Today in Ohio. We’ve talked a good bit about the rapidly developing plans to open up the Cleveland lakefront and riverfront, and now we know how Mayor Justin Bibb proposes to pay for a lot of it. Courtney, you wrote a story about this. How?

courtney (11:34.603)

Yeah, this involves something called tax increment financing. Folks may be familiar with it. It’s used in Cleveland, you know, semi often to help with individual building projects and the way it works is, you know, say a building’s run down and vacant, it’s worth so much as is, and generates so much property value. And, and then you have the property taxes that align with that property value. Right. Now the way tax increment financing works is that.

someone wants to redevelop a building, let’s say its property value goes up after you restore that building, and it’s generating additional money in property tax revenues. Tax increment financing captures just that increase as a result of a project, and diverts that money back into the project instead of going into public coffers to be used for public services. So like I said, this is normal. However, what Justin Bibb is looking to do

to fund major overhauls of the riverfront, lakefront, and other needs potentially in Cleveland is take tax increment financing and expand it out from one building and have it cover much of the whole of downtown Cleveland and some of the near west side, as development chief said, and capture those collective increases and use that money to sink back into public infrastructure upgrades that would facilitate

Dan Gilbert’s plans to remake Tower City and the whole Eastern shoreline of the Cuyahoga River downtown. And then whatever’s left over, could also potentially go to whatever plans materialize around the lakefront, around Cleveland Brown Stadium and that land bridge we’ve been hearing folks talk.

Chris (13:22.502)

I’m shocked that Justin Bibb is doing this because it’s kind of the opposite of social justice. Traditionally, the area of Cleveland that generates the big property taxes is the downtown core. Those taxes go into funds that serve the whole city, including poverty-stricken neighborhoods, which is a big part of Cleveland. By locking up future tax increase collections…

so that they cannot be spent outside of the downtown core is gonna make the poor get poorer. I’m just stunned that he’s doing this. This is the downtown developer’s dream, right? That all the money that’s generated by their projects feeds their projects and it doesn’t go to the neighborhoods where people are seriously hurting. Has anybody spoken up in opposition to this? Have any of the…

Lisa (14:11.478)

anybody spoken up in opposition to this? Have any of the churches or any of the neighborhood groups stood up and said, what are you doing? You’re going to make the rich richer and the poor poorer? You know, I don’t think we’re at that point yet, Chris. I’m sure we will be getting there. We’re at the very infant stages. City Council, all this information came out on Tuesday as City Council was considering a master development agreement for the federal project of Calgary City.

Chris (14:15.274)

the churches or any of the neighborhood groups stood up to say, what are you doing? You’re going to make the rich richer and the poor poor.

courtney (14:24.135)

You know, I don’t think we’re at that point yet, Chris. I’m sure we will be getting there. We’re at the very infant stages. City council, all this information came out on Tuesday. A city council was considering a master development agreement for the bedrock project at Tower City. And this isn’t even part of that yet. So this will be future legislate. We’re at the very beginning of this whole debate, but we’ve got this peak now with the financing strategy.

Lisa (14:41.452)

been part of that yet. So this will be future legislation. We’re at the very beginning of this whole debate. But we’ve got this peak now with the financing strategy. You know, I will say that BIV’s Chief of Development, Jeff Epstein, was talking about how, you know, this could be a way to really, you know, fund our city’s next chapter without, you know, the plans are that this wouldn’t necessarily touch the general fund. So they’re looking at this as a novel financing way.

courtney (14:49.667)

You know, I will say Bibb’s chief of development, Jeff Epstein, was talking about how, you know, this could be a way to really, you know, fund our city’s next chapter without, you know, the plans are that this wouldn’t necessarily touch the general fund. So they’re looking at this as a novel financing way to kind of get around the constraints of the normal city budget. But like you said, you’re banking against future services and future

Chris (15:15.098)

Yeah, you’re.

Right. You’re locking the funds that are spent in the neighborhoods now at current levels. So, none of the investment in the downtown in the future will help that. And that’s never been the way. It’s going to make it harder for the neighborhoods to thrive. I’m just stunned. This seems like it’s the kind of thing that a conservative Republican would do to take care of the downtown property owners, the guys that have all the money.

courtney (15:20.111)

future revenues.

Chris (15:48.07)

and that somebody who ran on the plank, Justin Bibran on, which is I’m going to represent the neighborhoods and the little guy and the people that are hurting. It’s just a stunning development. I’m completely taken aback by it. What wasn’t included in this discussion, you know, Chris Ronane’s looking for money. He’s got a RFP out to sell the whole Justice Center property to see what he can get and then move the courthouse somewhere else.

Lisa (15:57.366)

the stunning development. I’m taken aback by it. What wasn’t included in this discussion, you know, Chris Rene is looking for money. He’s got a RFP out to sell the whole business of copper.

Chris (16:15.066)

I wonder if he’s talking to Justin Bibb about getting a piece of this. You know, could that money also help take care of some of the development projects the county has in mind?

courtney (16:24.527)

You know, we’ll have to see where that goes. You know, it’s worth noting here that Epstein told us that they’d want to capture some of this money and set it aside specifically for projects in the rest of the city’s neighborhoods. They were talking about how a slice of this could be diverted and sent off to maybe fund Bibb’s planned parks and recreation center master plan that efforts ongoing to see the future of recreation in the city. So he’s saying some money could be.

diverted to the neighborhoods here. And it’s also worth noting, he pointed out that this may be a new concept in Cleveland, but other places in Ohio have done this to what he described as, you know, good success. If you think about Rockside Road and independence that was done with a TIF district overlay like this would be. And he said all of downtown Columbus is TIFed this way. And that’s how they’re funding their development in Columbus. So, you know, on first blush hearing from council members.

You know, some were intrigued by this funding plan, but I’m sure we’ll hear more of the negatives perhaps explored in the future.

Chris (17:29.622)

Yeah, I think it’s a stunning development. I hope it gets a full discussion before they go forward with it. This is a dramatic departure from how Cleveland has funded things in the past, and it would lock it out. I mean, this is long-term kind of stuff. Once it’s in place, it’s in place for good. You’re listening to Today in Ohio. A storm a few weeks back wreaked havoc on suburbs like Cleveland Heights, where power was out for days in some neighborhoods.

One man living in such a neighborhood did have power, while his neighbor’s homes were dark. It comes down to solar. Lisa, is this a good strategy for grappling with climate change, putting in solar panels?

Lisa

Chris, I would say yes with a but. 74-year-old Bob Kloos is a pastor at Community of St. Peter and he’s a longtime clean and sustainable energy advocate. Well, he installed solar panels on the roof of his Cleveland Heights home in 2022.

Chris (21:26.77)

Yes. Okay. So just, just go ahead.

Lisa (21:47.125)

And this was actually his second installment. He had a previous set of solar panels back around 2004. But the difference with this one is that it feeds the energy from the panels to a battery backup system. That’s what kept his power running after these massive outages from a late August storm. Tristan Rader, who’s the Ohio director of Solar United Neighbors, which is a solar co-op, and he’s also a Lakewood councilman, he says more homeowners are actually choosing, who are choosing solar.

who are also installing that battery backup. And this is why, because, you know, solar panels still create power, even if the grid goes down, but it’s still feeding that power into the grid. So electricians and workers who are trying to get the power back on could touch a live line and it could be very dangerous. So with these new systems, it feeds it into a battery backup.

And so about 25% of new solar panel installs are doing the battery backup according to Rader. That’s up from only 10% in 2019. He said that, you know, the cost though doubles. So the typical cost for a solar array for a home is about $12,000 to $15,000. But if you add the batteries that pretty much doubles the price. So Clues.

paid $25,000 for this new system with the battery backup, but he was extremely happy to have it.

Chris (23:13.246)

Well, we know climate change is going to cause more and more powerful storms and the power is going to go out. Our wires are all above ground and there’s no effort being made to put them underground. So that’s fascinating that if you have the solar panels, which is smart, and you put it into a battery, you have power for a lot longer than anybody else. That’s expensive, though. It would take a long time to recover that cost. A gas generator costs more like five to seventy five hundred dollars. And unlike the batteries.

that doesn’t run out as long as the gas is on. But an interesting benefit that I don’t think anybody talked about in the days, the early days of solar panels. Early days of solar panels were, you know, it’s green energy, you’re helping the environment, and you’re saving money ultimately in the long run on power. But now you might just have power when nobody else does. All right, you’re listening to Today in Ohio. Interesting that we’re talking about this while Leila is about to fly out of it.

Lisa (23:45.839)

Right.

Lisa (24:04.233)

Right.

Chris (24:12.406)

How low does Cleveland Hopkins come in the latest airport satisfaction survey? Laura, we talk about that place being a dump all the time. We’re not the only ones.

laura (24:22.975)

It’s still at the bottom in a ranking of similarly sized airports. And this is despite an increase in customer satisfaction. This is according to JD Power. That’s the consumer research and data firm that does this survey every year. And this week it released the results of its airport satisfaction survey. So it asks air travelers how they feel about the places that they begin and end their trips. Does this mean that they don’t ask about the places in the middle? Cause in my understanding and experience, those are the worst.

The layovers are the worst. But Cleveland Hopkins scored a 794 out of 1000 points and an assessment of traveler satisfaction. That’s based on six categories, terminal facilities, airport arrivals and departures, baggage claims, security, check-in baggage, and food, beverage, and retail. It actually scored really well on the food, beverage, and retail. What it scored bad at, which I didn’t understand, is traffic congestion around the airport.

I would say that our airport’s got to be one of the easier ones to get to. Are people not flying out of, you know, ever driving around Atlanta or Toronto? I mean, those are clearly not in the same category. They’re not midsize airports, but it is a lot worse other places.

Chris (25:34.814)

Although once you get in there, finding parking can be damn near impossible now. So, and also the gates, because the police aren’t really doing anything to enforce the limits of how long you’re supposed to park there. We keep hearing from people that the gates are just backed up for ridiculous periods. So look, it’s not surprising. We need a new airport. That airport is horrible. It always has been.

laura (25:39.06)

Yes, that’s true.

laura (25:56.647)

Yeah, we…

laura (26:01.835)

We’re not the entire worst. It ranked fourth from the bottom among 16 airports in the medium category. So the three below it are Bradley International in Hartford, Hollywood Burbank in Southern California, and Kaluhi Airport in Hawaii. So there are worse off airports than us. I still don’t think it’s the worst thing in the world. To me, it’s not lovely, but who’s trying to spend a lot of time at the airport? Just get me out of there.

Lisa (26:02.321)

I think the entire work is going to be sourced from the bottom level from the airport to the institution category. So the three below it are Bradley International Park, Hollywood Burbank in Southern California, and Kaluwii Airport in Hawaii. So they’re all worth talking to airports, instead of us. I still don’t think it’s the work.

Chris (26:05.681)

the

Chris (26:26.65)

I should have had Layla call in because I need the counterpoint to Laura’s bubbly, happy, talk nonsense about the airport. I’m sure. She even offered to. I should have taken her up on it. She could tell us exactly what it looks like right now. You’re listening to Today in Ohio. Cleveland has used a carrot. Now it’s using the stick. How many homeowners are being prosecuted because of lead poisoning of children? Courtney, this is one aggressive step.

laura (26:28.584)

I’m sorry.

laura (26:32.179)

She’ll tell you how gross the bathroom was, I’m sure, this morning.

courtney (26:54.351)

Very aggressive. We heard from Mayor Justin Bibb yesterday that the city of Cleveland has, you know, started the prosecution of 50 homeowners, including landlords, for failing to clean up houses where children, you know, have been lead poisoned. And this is quite a stick because each of the 50 homeowners, the city is levying 75 counts of first degree misdemeanors against each of the property owners. Ohio law allows property owners

who have failed to clean up houses where public health investigators have concluded children have been lead poisoned, for every day they don’t abate that lead hazard control order, they can be cited with a separate count. And that’s the piece of the law Mayor Bibb is using in this case. And there’s a specific reason for that strategy. I found this very interesting. What the city doesn’t wanna do here is just maybe charge a landlord with one or two counts and then…

Lisa (27:34.716)

they can be cited with a separate count. And that’s the piece of the law Mayor Biv is using in this case. And there’s a specific reason for that strategy. And from this very interesting, what the city doesn’t want to do here is just maybe charge a landlord with one or two counts, and then it’s cheaper to pay the fine for them if they get convicted, and then not put that money into a payment. That’s not what the city wants.

courtney (27:53.463)

It’s cheaper to pay the fine for them if they get convicted and then not put that money into repairs. That’s not what the city wants. So the city is just blasting these individuals with charges because they want the cost of making the repairs to protect kids from lead in those homes. They want that cost to be cheaper than what the court fines would be. So that’s their strategy. We’re going to be, you know, seeing how this unfolds.

Lisa (28:14.669)

So that’s their strategy. We’re gonna be, you know, see how this unfolds in housing court before Judge W. Momeni dies as this emerges, but right now, that’s kind of their strategy, is to just make the fine so steep that property owners are forced to make the repairs because it’s cheaper to do that.

courtney (28:19.687)

in housing court before Judge W. Monáe Scott as this emerges. But right now, that’s kind of their strategy is to just make the fine so steep that property owners are forced to make the repairs because it’s cheaper to do that.

Chris (28:35.062)

We’ve had cases in the past where judges have dealt with the housing issues by forcing the owners to live in these pits until they fixed them up. And what would happen if you did that? Okay. You’re defying the court. You have to live there. I’m sentencing you with an ankle bracelet to living there until you remediate like you’re supposed to. How long do you think it would take them to fix it then?

courtney (28:59.943)

Yeah, right. You know, it’s really, it’s really sad. So these lead hazard control orders sit on properties for weeks, months, even some of them years. And basically, what lead hazard control orders say to the property owner when they’re handed down is, you’ve got to do X to fix your property. And in some cases, it can be rather simple repairs, like just cover up dirt around the foundation or paint over chipping windows and doors, it doesn’t permanently fix the

problem, but it protects kids in the meantime. And in this summer, I spent some time driving around Glenville looking at some of these properties with lead hazard control orders on them. You know, I drove by one home, and there’s two kids playing on the porch. You know, these are problems that are lingering. And it’s not just the threat of a future lead poisoning. These are properties where officials are pretty dang certain kids have been actively poisoned.

Chris (29:42.111)

No.

Lisa (29:43.025)

These are problems that are lingering. And it’s not just the threat of future lead poisoning. These are properties where officials are pretty dang certain kids have been active. Well, we know. We’re all aware.

Chris (29:53.342)

Well, and we know because of all the reporting that’s been done, once a kid is poisoned, it harms their long-term fate economically, health-wise, and also education-wise. If we could solve the lead paint problem in Cleveland, we would take a remarkable step forward in reducing poverty. It’s just that the ties are so strong and the fact that these owners are not fixing their properties, we ought to make them live there until they fix it.

Lisa (30:21.005)

Well, but we have to find them first. I mean, a lot of these owners are buried under multiple LLCs. They’re really, really hard. Richmond Heights had the same problem with one of their apartments. They had to go through four LLCs to find the owner.

Chris (30:23.039)

Yeah, that’s true.

Chris (30:33.215)

Yeah, but they…

courtney (30:33.303)

And that’s been a problem. The city’s been trying to address the building and housing director is, is trying to move through different code changes that would allow the onus not to kind of be on someone out in the ether. Lisa, they, they’re identifying local agents. They can hold accountable and doing new ways where they can serve these complaints on, on people who are local instead of just that faceless LLC. So it’s a big problem. There’s many different ways.

The city wants to wrap its hands around it and tackling some of that, it’s hard, but they’re trying to get at that.

Chris (31:09.31)

Well, you would think too, you could pass some sort of law to say, unless we have a human being who’s representing this, if we can’t do it, we can seize the property. That once we file a notice on this property, if somebody does not stand up to raise their hand and say, I’m responsible for it, they lose the property. I mean, someone has to be accountable. And I would think that the best way to do that would be to hit them economically.

Lisa (31:09.719)

Mm-hmm.

Chris (31:35.582)

It’s a horrible problem. It needs to be fixed. I’m glad Cleveland’s doing something aggressive about it. They should do more. You’re listening to Today in Ohio. We marveled last week that Cuyahoga County is extending the contract to the vendor who has been providing atrocious food at the Cuyahoga County jail. We said the county has offered a few more explanations for what seems like an inexplicable decision. What are they?

Lisa (31:57.489)

Uh, they are here, but they’re not very explanatory. But anyway, the draft contract for a year long extension with the Trinity services group for county jail food, um, is going to be considered as early as next Tuesday and voted on. And if they approve it, it could go into effect October 1st. This is a year long extension that would go through September of 2024. The cost is.

really high. It’s 7.9 million through September of next year. That’s 166% more a month than the previous original contract for three years for $9.7 million. It was started in 2020. But Trinity says there’ll be a lot of changes. The biggest one is that inmates will no longer be preparing the food. Trinity employees will be preparing the food. They will also oversee food inventory and cleaning the kitchen. County employees will

deliver the food as necessary. They’ll take out the trash, unload delivery trucks. And this requires Trinity to provide a daily meal tracking and allow the county to randomly sample the food. They’ve already done that and it was thumbs down. And they have to, you know, estimate, have hold periodic food service meetings. And then there will be a thousand dollar fines levied for meals that don’t meet contract standards.

Chris (33:20.33)

The idea that taking the inmates out and having the food service workers prepare the food, somehow making the food better, doesn’t hold any water until you consider that the huge concentration of prisoners at the jail are accused dangerous felons and they’re not allowed to do the food. So the number of actual inmates that are eligible to work on the food because they can be trusted is so small, they don’t have enough. That’s why…

Lisa (33:48.921)

Right.

Chris (33:49.378)

Corrections officers get in there. So maybe that’s why they serve them gruel because they don’t have the people to actually do the Preparations to make it but in the end you have to have basic materials You know, you can’t you’re gonna serve glop if glop is all you have to work with and I don’t hear in this How they’re gonna get beyond the glop?

Lisa (34:10.605)

Well, and they, you know, they claim, they still claim that their food meets health requirements. But I keep looking at that photo of that glop of jelly and that breakfast bar made of a mix of pancake and cake batter. I mean, there’s no fruit, there’s no vegetables, there’s no eggs, there’s no nothing. But they’re saying county spokeswoman, Kelly Woodard says, you know, they think it’ll improve food quality and improve efficiency to have Trinity employees doing the cooking.

courtney (34:16.222)

Thank you.

Chris (34:17.203)

Hahaha

Lisa (34:37.829)

But extending the contract, they say, will give Sheriff Harold Preetel more time to review all jail contracts and solicit formal proposals from other vendors. But I would think that Trinity would just be a no from this point. How much time do they need?

Chris (34:52.994)

I’m going to say it again. Why aren’t they talking to Brandon Christovsky? This guy has built a village of food service working with ex-felons coming out of prison. So he has a high high-end restaurant that is run by people that he is trained to come out of prison. He’s got all sorts of meat shops and also a bunch of side businesses. He’s created a whole village over near Shaker Square.

Lisa (34:57.541)

Mm-hmm.

Chris (35:21.202)

And he knows the corrections industry. Why not just talk to him and say, Hey, do you have any ideas for us? Because he’s an innovative thinker. It sounds like they’re going the easy route here and that’s a mistake. And it’s going to cost us a bloody fortune. We’ll have to see where it goes. I really would like to hear from the sheriff on this. He promised a thorough review. Did he do it? You’re listening to Today in Ohio. That’s it for a Friday. Laura, you get to save a question for tomorrow. You won’t have to prepare for, we’re not going to get to it.

laura (35:47.995)

Woohoo!

Chris (35:51.05)

Thanks, Laura. Thanks, Lisa. Thanks, Courtney. Thanks, everybody for listening. We’ll be back Friday to wrap up the week.