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‘What you see is really me,’ says ‘Wicked’ star Cynthia Erivo

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‘What you see is really me,’ says ‘Wicked’ star Cynthia Erivo

Cynthia Erivo attends LACMA Art+Film Gala at the Los Angeles County Museum of Art on Nov. 1, 2025.

Lisa O’Connor/AFP via Getty Images


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There’s a moment in the new movie, Wicked: For Good, when Elphaba, the so-called Wicked Witch, stops defending herself to a world that has misunderstood her and embraces her own power. Cynthia Erivo, who plays Elphaba, sees a connection between her character’s trajectory and her own.

“There were so many sort of real parallels — the relationship with her father, the relationship to being in spaces that don’t really include you,” Erivo says. “The feelings you see in the movie are very real feelings.”

Erivo grew up in London as the child of Nigerian immigrants. From an early age, it was evident that she had a powerful singing voice. She attended the Royal Academy of Dramatic Art, but felt like an outsider.

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“It was a tough experience to be there. I just didn’t think I fit,” she says. “And I think there was sort of a lack of wanting to understand where I was coming from or who I was as a person.”

Erivo first broke through on Broadway in The Color Purple, winning a Tony Award for her portrayal of Celie. She went on to earn an Oscar nomination for her portrayal of Harriet Tubman, and later played Aretha Franklin in Genius Aretha.

In Wicked: For Good, Erivo reprises her role as Elphaba, alongside Ariana Grande as Glinda, in this final chapter of the Wicked story. Both Wicked movies were filmed at the same time, which proved challenging at times.

“There were days where, luckily, you would sort of know where the character was at this point [in the story],” Erivo says. “But there were some times where you’re sort of guessing really, because you hadn’t shot a certain scene, you’re just sort of assuming that the scene is gonna feel this way.”

Erivo also has a new memoir, Simply More: A Book for Anyone who Has Been Told They’re Too Much, which details her childhood in South London and her path to the stage.

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Cynthia Erivo is Elphaba (center) in WICKED FOR GOOD, directed by Jon M. Chu.

Erivo reprises her role of Elphaba in Wicked: For Good.

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Interview highlights

On her physical training for Wicked

I’d [swim] laps, then sing and then I’d run. … It’s the idea that if I’m doing something that’s strenuous and I can sing it whilst I’m doing the thing that’s strenuous, when I’m standing still, it’ll just be there. I won’t actually have to work that hard for it to be there. … Once your body has it in it, it just sort of lives with you. And so that’s what I wanted for myself.

On getting into character through perfume

I started doing this years and years ago. The first time I did it, I think I did with Harriet [Tubman] and hers was, like, cedarwood and lavender, I think it was, but like essence with a base oil, not a perfume, because I wanted it to feel like something she could find, that she could discover, make, as opposed to something you could just buy in a store and spray on oneself. Because of the time, because of who she was, I wanted it to feel like it was of the Earth. And then I realized how powerful it was for me. And so I kept doing it with my characters. …

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So Elphaba, who’s younger, I sort of messed around with big florals, like really deep florals. So tuberose, rose, lilies and then I mixed it with a tobacco oud. It was a scent called Witchy Woo. When I found it, I thought, there’s no way this is going to work. It will be way too on the nose. … I was staying at a Soho Farmhouse in the UK and they have this little sort of gift shop and in the back they have a few perfumes … I sprayed some on my hand and immediately I wasn’t convinced, but you know how perfume changes? … My body is like, no, this is a really good scent. There was a reason it was there for you, go back for it.

On her decision to cut, and then shave, her hair

It started a long time ago, just as I was coming out of drama school. I just knew that I wanted something different. Around that time, everyone who was auditioning, girls who were auditioning wanted long hair and a particular kind of aesthetic, and I sort of repelled against the idea because I didn’t want any distractions. I don’t know what gave me the idea, what gave [me] the wherewithal to think, I want to lessen the distraction. I want them to just see my face. I want, when I walk in, for them to see a canvas that can transform. A vessel. That what you see is really me, and I can change into the character in front of your very eyes.

After I left drama school, I cut my hair. I went to get a haircut and the hairdresser was very, very scared to cut it, because my hair was quite long. It came down past my shoulders. … If you’re African, often you cut your hair if you lose someone. So there’s an understanding of loss. You know that the old adage when a woman cuts her hair or changes her hairstyle, a life shift has happened. That is very true of the Nigerian tradition. And so, for me, I felt like I went for my own life shift. … It was sort of leaving [drama school] behind and taking from it what I needed and letting go of whatever else I didn’t. And when I cut my hair, I felt strangely like myself. I’ve felt like I’ve been steadily moving towards cutting it off completely, and Wicked was the moment when I took it off completely.

On regretting a time she sang backstage, allowing another actor to lip-sync to her voice

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It’s one of those moments that I’ve started to learn to forgive myself for because … previously I’ve felt so mad at myself. So I guess there’s a part of me that’s a little bit ashamed that I would sort of give up my voice in that way. But it’s also why I’m vehemently protective of the way I use my voice. I do not say yes to everything at all. It has to mean something for me to sing, and it has to make sense. I will never give my voice to someone like that again, because it felt like someone removing a gift that was meant for me and giving it to someone else. It just felt, in the moment, really awful, and I remember feeling really wrong. It felt wrong.

On not growing up with her father, and not having a relationship with him as an adult

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I think I’m in a real place of acceptance, and a strange apathy as well. I don’t wish him harm, but it’s not like I’m waiting for some grand resolution. I’m sort of OK with it being exactly what it is. I have no desire to start a relationship. I have no desire to mend a relationship. But it doesn’t really occupy my thoughts.

If the point of doing the things you love or the point of doing a thing that you’re good at is to make someone care about you, is to prove that you are meant to be loved, is to prove that you are worthy of being loved, it doesn’t sustain. Because really and truly, the most important love is that of yourself. It has to come from you first.

Ann Marie Baldonado and Susan Nyakundi produced and edited this interview for broadcast. Bridget Bentz, Molly Seavy-Nesper and Beth Novey adapted it for the web.

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6 books named finalists for the 2026 International Booker Prize

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6 books named finalists for the 2026 International Booker Prize

Scribe US, Sandorf Passage,S&S/Summit Books, Charco Press, Vintage, Graywolf Press

Six books have been named finalists for the 2026 International Booker Prize. Formerly known as the Man Booker International Prize, this honor is presented annually for a work of fiction that was originally written in a language other than English, then translated into English and published in the U.K. and/or Ireland.

In a moment in which international relations are dominating news headlines around the globe, three of these shortlisted novels explore pivotal moments in world history: imperialist Japan-controlled Taiwan in the 1930s, Nazi-era Germany and the 1979 Revolution in Iran.

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“With narratives that capture moments from across the past century, these books reverberate with history,” author Natasha Brown, chair of this year’s International Booker Prize jury, said in a statement. “While there’s heartbreak, brutality, and isolation among these stories, their lasting effect is energising. Rereading each book, we judges found hope, insight and burning humanity – along with unforgettable characters to whom I’m sure readers will return again and again.”

This year’s shortlist particularly celebrates female authors and translators: Five of the authors and four of the translators are women. As well as hailing from four continents, the shortlisted authors and translators come from remarkably diverse professional backgrounds: Taiwan’s Yáng Shuāng-zǐ writes manga and video game scripts, and Bulgaria’s Rene Karabash is a well-established actor as well as author.

The winning author and translator will be announced on May 19. They will split a prize of £50,000 (about $66,000).

The finalists are:

The Nights Are Quiet in Tehran by Shida Bazyar, translated from German by Ruth Martin

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This is a multigenerational tale told by four different family members – first during the Iranian Revolution of 1979, then as the family seeks a new home in West Germany – that takes readers back to Iran, and the Iranian people’s struggle to come to a new political and social reality during the Green Revolution of 2009. In Australia’s The Saturday Paper, Rhoda Kwan wrote that The Nights Are Quiet in Tehran is “a quietly beautiful exploration of the trauma of losing one’s homeland to a savage regime, the novel is testament to how hope and the revolutionary spirit endure in the face of crushing tyranny, how courage cannot be fully stamped out.”

She Who Remains by Rene Karabash, translated from Bulgarian by Izidora Angel

An independent-minded young woman named Bekja, living in Albania’s rural Accursed Mountains, escapes an arranged marriage, reshapes her life and decides to live as a man. That declaration sets off a chain reaction in the community, ultimately separating Bekja from the person she loves the most. The International Booker Prize judges called She Who Remains “an exquisitely written, brilliantly observed story about a young woman in a contemporary Albanian tribal society, and a blood feud that sets off her journey to self-discovery.”

The Director by Daniel Kehlmann, translated from German by Ross Benjamin

This novel is the fictionalized story of real-life Austrian film maker G.W. Pabst, who fled a prominent career in Nazi Germany to make a new life in Hollywood. Due to his ailing mother, however, he returns to his native country, where the regime begins pressuring him to make propaganda. In The New Yorker, critic David Denby called The Director a “complex entertainment—a sorrowful fable of artistic and moral collapse, but also a novel composed with entrancing freedom, even bravura.”

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On Earth As It Is Beneath by Ana Paula Maia, translated from Portuguese by Padma Viswanathan

This is a horror novella set in a remote penal colony in which every full moon, the warden releases the inmates into the wilderness – only to hunt them down. In The New York Times, critic Gabino Iglesias enthused that On Earth As It Is Beneath is “a must read for those who like their poetry written in blood.”

The Witch by Marie NDiaye, translated from French by Jordan Stump

This novel is the oldest of this year’s crop of shortlisted nominees: It was originally published in French in 1996. Its protagonist is Lucie, a not terribly gifted witch, who passes on her familial powers to her own daughters, Maud and Lise. Vulture critic Jasmine Vojdani wrote of The Witch: “This is NDiaye at her disquieting best.”

Taiwan Travelogue by Yáng Shuāng-zǐ, translated from Mandarin Chinese by Lin King

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This novel, which already won the 2024 National Book Award for translated literature, traces a year-long journey through Taiwan by a (fictional) young Japanese novelist, Aoyama Chizuko, a young writer of voracious appetites. Chizuko has been invited to Taiwan by the Japanese government, which currently controls the island; once there, she meets her Taiwanese interpreter, Chizuru, who enraptures Chizuko. New York Times reviewer Shahnaz Habib wrote that Taiwan Travelogue is “a delightfully slippery novel about how power shapes relationships, and what travel reveals and conceals.”

The judges for the 2026 International Booker prize are author Natasha Brown; writer, broadcaster and professor Marcus du Sautoy; translator Sophie Hughes; writer, editor and bookseller Troy Onyango; and novelist and columnist Nilanjana S. Roy.

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How to have the best Sunday in L.A, according to Thundercat

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How to have the best Sunday in L.A, according to Thundercat

The bass genius Thundercat has, to his regret, been spending way too much time absorbing bad news on his phone.

“We are cellphones at this point, basically,” he said. “That’s what life feels like. It’s a weird one we’re living through right now, to say the least. You have to try to stay inspired, to keep moving forward. But like, you’re processing absolute hell and war in the background, and you’re still supposed to look cute.”

Sunday Funday infobox logo with colorful spot illustrations

In Sunday Funday, L.A. people give us a play-by-play of their ideal Sunday around town. Find ideas and inspiration on where to go, what to eat and how to enjoy life on the weekends.

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That whipsaw feeling — processing grief and destruction, while doing your song-and-dance to survive, all via the same rectangle — is the backdrop of Thundercat’s new album, “Distracted,” his fifth LP and first in six years. The album is a typically dense and playful showcase for his extravagant musicality, and packed with guests like ASAP Rocky, Tame Impala and Lil Yachty.

But it’s poignantly introspective on tracks like “What Is Left to Say” and “I Wish I Didn’t Waste Your Time.” “She Knows Too Much” has a touching cameo from his late friend and frequent collaborator Mac Miller.

“After [Miller’s] death, there were a lot of questions, a lot of stones left unturned,” Thundercat said. “But this song came to be from the simplicity of making music between friends. It’s a language, a snapshot. It was a beautiful moment between us.”

Thundercat, born Stephen Bruner, grew up in L.A. immersed in the city’s progressive jazz scene, playing with everyone from Kendrick Lamar to Suicidal Tendencies. These are some of the places around Los Angeles that still keep his inner comics-nerd satiated and musical curiosity fed — no matter what bleak news is blowing up his phone.

9 a.m. Find some coffee that slaps

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If I notice that I’m doomscrolling, if stuff is getting a little bit too dark and weird and twisted, I’ll put my phone down and go drink some coffee and get way too much energy. I’ll go to the good old boys at Commissary. That’s good coffee.

My day doesn’t always consist of me picking my instrument up, but it’s more like as it feels right. If I’m not intentionally writing or working on somebody’s music, a lot of the time it’s just me. The time between is just as important as the time spent with music, so it’s learning to be OK without my bass in my hands for a second.

But there’s still so much to learn about harmony and melody from that instrument, you know? Nothing makes up for spending time with an instrument and learning it in a different manner. That’s how Larry Graham came up with slap bass. It has no bounds for what you want to create. It’s just about how far your mind can go with it.

Noon. Pick up a comic book

I find myself to be very much like a Lebowski-like character. The things that I enjoy bring me peace, like fashion and comics. The family at Golden Apple on Melrose have been my family since I was a child. The family there has always looked out for me and been avid supporters of my career. They remember my dad bringing me in — I remember the day that Image Comics premiered at Golden Apple. It’s nothing but love and artistry and great people to meet in Golden Apple — they’ve been one of the through lines in my life that has just been consistent. L.A.’s landscape keeps changing, but Golden Apple has been a beacon of nerdisms.

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5 p.m. Fun at the movies

I have always been a fan of Universal CityWalk’s AMC theaters, even though they charge ridiculous prices. Everybody’s trying to keep their industry alive in this moment; it’s of one of those grit-and-bear kind of things. But at the same time, the experience that you have there is absolutely golden.

I love seeing movies there, because there’s so much to do around there. There’s a comic store, Halloween Horror Nights, Nintendo Land. There’s a Hot Topic, because I am a goth hoochie daddy. I’ve been going my whole life. I just enjoy going to the movies there by myself or with friends. Sometimes they get bored, because I will keep choosing to do this, but I don’t care, because it is a movie theater that I love. It’s always a joy to have AMC at Universal City Walk.

8 p.m. Sushi that’s a cut above

One of my favorite restaurants in L.A. is a restaurant by the name of Asanebo. It’s a sushi restaurant that is of very high prestige. The chefs there are very loving and caring. They make the most amazing food on the planet. It’s a beautiful environment — one of the best sushi restaurants, I would say, in the world. But it’s about the history for me, and the family that is built there, from the waitresses to the hosts. They treat you like royalty there.

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10 p.m. Fun with friends and all that L.A. jazz

Most of the time, I don’t know what the hell is going on. A lot of the time, I would rather just sit on the couch and watch “Star Trek.” I’m not always wanting to immediately get up and just go sacrifice myself to the nightlife.

I really enjoyed growing up playing gigs all over L.A., but a lot of those places don’t even exist anymore. We could play outside the Hollywood Bowl. We’d play at a dive bar or play at a wedding, but my childhood friendships were linked to to the functionality of music in my life. If we were playing at a musty bar or some weird coffee house, it was like, “I get to play with Kamasi [Washington], and they’re going to pay us in sandwiches.”

I enjoyed The World Stage in Leimert Park. Low End Theory at the Airliner — I’d be hanging out with Flying Lotus or Tyler would drop an album and come up to perform. It was about my friends and hanging with the people that I love.

I think as time progresses, I enjoy spending time with my friends — whatever that entails. If it’s going out to a club and all that, seeing a friend perform, my friend Anderson has a beautiful club called Andy’s. There’s a restaurant called Verse, that’s owned by my friend Manny, that serves absolutely amazing food and has live music. It’s just fantastic. They just erected a Blue Note here in Los Angeles, which is awesome.

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Where would you go to listen to a song by me and Channel Tres where you can dance on somebody’s butt? I’m still gonna say Andy’s, but I can finish off the night at Living Room. That’s a good place to listen and enjoy the nightlife, just a great club.

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Personal Records: Tim Heidecker : World Cafe Words and Music Podcast

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Personal Records: Tim Heidecker : World Cafe Words and Music Podcast

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Featured Songs

  • Randy Newman, “A Wedding In Cherokee County”
  • Bruce Springsteen & The E Street Band, “Racing in the Street”
  • The Beatles, “Any Time at All”
  • Pavement, “Silence Kid”
  • Joni Mitchell, “Carey”

We’re rolling out a new feature on World Cafe called Personal Records. We’re inviting non-musicians — or musicians working outside of the industry — to share the songs that define them.

The concept is simple: If someone were to assemble a mixtape that holds the key to who you are and what you do, what songs would be on it?

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Tim Heidecker has been on the show a few times to talk about his own music, but he’s also an actor, director, writer and comedian, known for Tim and Eric Awesome Show, Great Job!, On Cinema at the Cinema and his podcast Office Hours.

Today, Heidecker joins World Cafe to gush about Randy Newman, talk about the Joni Mitchell song that reminds him of his childhood and more.

This episode of World Cafe was produced and edited by Kimberly Junod.  Our digital producer is Miguel Perez. World Cafe‘s engineer is Chris Williams. Our programming and booking coordinator is Chelsea Johnson and our line producer is Will Loftus.

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