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‘Modern Love’ Podcast: Miranda July Knew Exactly What She Was Doing

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‘Modern Love’ Podcast: Miranda July Knew Exactly What She Was Doing

It’s been almost a year since Miranda July released her hit novel, “All Fours.” The novel features a woman in her mid-40s who heads out on a solo road trip across the country, only to stop at a roadside motel 30 minutes from her home. She winds up staying there for three weeks, exploring and questioning what she actually wants and needs out of midlife, things she can’t really focus on when she’s busy being a wife, a mom and a working artist. In the motel, she redecorates the room, designs her days the way she wants to and gets in touch with her changing desires.

In the past year, this book has become a touchstone for how our culture addresses women in perimenopause. It’s expanded beyond the page to a kind of movement. Soon after the book’s release, women started writing to July with their own stories. She started a Substack to keep those conversations going. People organized discussion groups all over the world called All Fours Group Chats. Hats were made. “All Fours” was shortlisted for the National Book Award, and it’s currently being adapted into a limited TV series. The paperback version of the novel will be released May 13.

In this week’s episode of Modern Love, July talks about the anger and desire that shaped the writing of “All Fours.” And she reflects on why this novel is inspiring to some, and threatening to others, in this cultural moment.


Listener Callout:

How did your dad express his feelings? Tell us your story in a voice memo, and you might hear yourself in a future episode. For Father’s Day, the Modern Love team is looking at different ways dads show their feelings, and we want to know about a moment when your dad opened up to you. Where were you? What did he do or say? How did you react? Did it have a lasting impact on you? And if you’re a dad, how do you think about showing emotion or vulnerability when you’re with your kids? Is it something you do intentionally? Does it feel easy? Hard? The deadline is May 15. Submission instructions are here.

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Here’s how to submit a Modern Love essay to The New York Times.

Here’s how to submit a Tiny Love Story.

Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

Links to transcripts of episodes generally appear on these pages within a week.


“Modern Love” is hosted by Anna Martin and produced by Reva Goldberg, Emily Lang, Davis Land, Amy Pearl and Sara Curtis. The show is edited by Lynn Levy and Jen Poyant, our executive producer. Production management is by Christina Djossa. The show is mixed by Daniel Ramirez and recorded by Maddy Masiello and Nick Pitman. It features original music by Pat McCusker, Elisheba Ittoop, Dan Powell, Marion Lozano and Diane Wong. Our theme music is by Dan Powell.

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Special thanks to Daniel Jones, Miya Lee, Larissa Anderson, Dahlia Haddad, Lisa Tobin, Bianca Flores, Brooke Minters, Felice León, Dave Mayers, Eddie Costas, Sawyer Roque, Sophie Erickson, Mariya Abdulkaf, Mark Zemel, Pat Gunther, Mahima Chablani, Nell Gallogly, Jeffrey Miranda, Isabella Anderson, Christine Nguyen, Reyna Desai, Jordan Cohen, Victoria Kim, Nina Lassam and Julia Simon.

Thoughts? Email us at modernlovepodcast@nytimes.com.

Want more from Modern Love? Read past stories. Watch the TV series and sign up for the newsletter. We also have swag at the NYT Store and two books, “Modern Love: True Stories of Love, Loss and Redemption” and “Tiny Love Stories: True Tales of Love in 100 Words or Less.”

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Sunday Puzzle: BE-D with two words

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Sunday Puzzle: BE-D with two words

On-air challenge

Every answer today is a familiar two-word phrase or name in which the first word starts BE- and the second word start D- (as in “bed”). (Ex. Sauce often served with tortilla chips  –>  BEAN DIP)

1. Sinuous Mideast entertainer who may have a navel decoration

2. Oscar category won multiple times by Frank Capra and Steven Spielberg

3. While it’s still light at the end of the day

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4. Obstruction in a stream made by animals that gnaw

5. Actress who starred in “Now, Voyager” and “Whatever Happened to Baby Jane?”

6. Two-time Conservative prime minister of Great Britain in the 19th century

7. Italian for “beautiful woman”

8. Patron at an Oktoberfest, e.g.

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9. Dim sum dish made with ground meat and fillings wrapped in a wonton and steamed

10. [Fill in the blank:] Something that is past its prime has seen ___

11. Like the engine room and sleeping quarters on a ship

Last week’s challenge

Last week’s challenge came from Robert Flood, of Allen, Texas. Name a famous female singer of the past (five letters in the first name, seven letters in the last name). Remove the last letter of her first name and you can rearrange all the remaining letters to name the capital of a country (six letters) and a food product that its nation is famous for (five letters).

Challenge answer

Sarah Vaughan, Havana, Sugar.

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Winner

Josh McIntyre of Raleigh, N.C.

This week’s challenge (something different)

I was at a library. On the shelf was a volume whose spine said “OUT TO SEA.” When I opened the volume, I found the contents has nothing to do with sailing or the sea in any sense. It wasn’t a book of fiction either. What was in the volume?

If you know the answer to the challenge, submit it below by Wednesday, December 24 at 3 p.m. ET. Listeners whose answers are selected win a chance to play the on-air puzzle.

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JoJo Siwa’s Boyfriend Chris Hughes Says He Plans to Propose When Least Expected

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JoJo Siwa’s Boyfriend Chris Hughes Says He Plans to Propose When Least Expected

JoJo Siwa
Boyfriend Chris Hughes Reveals Engagement Plans …
Gotta Take Her By Surprise!!!

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When a loved one dies, where do they go? A new kids’ book suggests ‘They Walk On’

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When a loved one dies, where do they go? A new kids’ book suggests ‘They Walk On’

Rafael López / Roaring Brook Press

A couple of years ago, after his mom died, Fry Bread author Kevin Maillard found himself wondering, “but where did she go?”

“I was really thinking about this a lot when I was cleaning her house out,” Maillard remembers. “She has all of her objects there and there’s like hair that’s still in the brush or there is an impression of her lipstick on a glass.” It was almost like she was there and gone at the same time.

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Maillard found it confusing, so he decided to write about it. His new children’s book is And They Walk On, about a little boy whose grandma has died. “When someone walks on, where do they go?” The little boy wonders. “Did they go to the market to thump green melons and sail shopping carts in the sea of aisles? Perhaps they’re in the garden watering a jungle of herbs or turning saplings into great sequoias.”

AndTheyWalkOn_9781250821980_IN_12-13.jpg

Rafael López / Roaring Brook Press

Maillard grew up in Oklahoma. His mother was an enrolled member of the Seminole Nation. He says many people in native communities use the phrase “walked on” when someone dies. It’s a different way of thinking about death. “It’s still sad,” Maillard says, “but then you can also see their continuing influence on everything you do, even when they’re not around.”

And They Walk On.jpg

Rafael López / Roaring Brook Press

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And They Walk On was illustrated by Mexican artist Rafael López, who connected to the story on a cultural and personal level. “‘Walking on’ reminds me so much of the Day of the Dead,” says López, who lost his dad 35 years ago. “My mom continues to celebrate my dad. We talk about something funny that he said. We play his favorite music. So he walks with us every day, wherever we go.”

It was López who decided that the story would be about a little boy: a young Kevin Maillard. “I thought, we need to have Kevin because, you know, he’s pretty darn cute,” he explains. López began the illustrations with pencil sketches and worked digitally, but he created all of the textures by hand. “I use acrylics and I use watercolors and I use ink. And then I distressed the textures with rags and rollers and, you know, dried out brushes,” he says. “I look for the harshest brush that I neglected to clean, and I decide this is going to be the perfect tool to create this rock.”

The illustrations at the beginning of the story are very muted, with neutral colors. Then, as the little boy starts to remember his grandmother, the colors become brighter and more vivid, with lots of purples and lavender. “In Mexico we celebrate things very much with color,” López explains, “whether you’re eating very colorful food or you’re buying a very colorful dress or you go to the market, the color explodes in your face. So I think we use color a lot to express our emotions.”

AndTheyWalkOn_9781250821980_IN_16-17.jpg

Rafael López / Roaring Brook Press

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On one page, the little boy and his parents are packing up the grandmother’s house. The scene is very earthy and green-toned except for grandma’s brightly-colored apron, hanging on a hook in the kitchen. “I want people to start noticing those things,” says López, “to really think about what color means and where he is finding this connection with grandma.”

Kevin Maillard says when he first got the book in the mail, he couldn’t open it for two months. “I couldn’t look at it,” he says, voice breaking. What surprised him, he said, was how much warmth Raphael López’s illustrations brought to the subject of death. “He’s very magical realist in his illustrations,” explains Maillard. And the illustrations, if not exactly joyful, are fanciful and almost playful. And they offer hope. “There’s this promise that these people, they don’t go away,” says Maillard. “They’re still with us… and we can see that their lives had meaning because they touched another person.”

AndTheyWalkOn_9781250821980_IN_34-35.jpg

Rafael López / Roaring Brook Press

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