As a kid in Cleveland, Arsenio Hall remembers watching The Tonight Show Starring Johnny Carson and feeling that something was missing. “I could watch … for weeks at a time maybe never see a minority perform,” he says.

Hall yearned to create something different: “My dream was to one day grow up and show the other side of show business,” he says. “I wanted to do this show that didn’t exist when I was a kid. … I wanted those things that Johnny didn’t do.”

The Arsenio Hall Show, which ran from 1989 until 1994, delivered just that. At its peak, the show was syndicated on nearly 200 stations, running second in the late-night ratings to Hall’s idol, Carson.

Some of the most indelible moments in American culture happened on Hall’s set. In 1991, Magic Johnson chose the show as the first place to speak after announcing his HIV diagnosis. That same year, a 6-year-old Bruno Mars won a week of free groceries after performing his Elvis impression on the show. And Bill Clinton famously played his saxophone on set during the run-up to the 1992 presidential election.

But Hall says he faced criticism on multiple fronts: White audiences thought the show was too Black, while Black audiences accused the show of not being Black enough.

“In America, you’re never gonna be No. 1 if you have this insatiable desire to do Toni Braxton instead of Dolly Parton,” Hall explains. “And by the way, I tried to do both. I would try to mix it up; I would put Dolly Parton on and then have something for the culture after it.”

In 1994, Hall decided to walk away: “I realized I couldn’t go any higher, and I was gonna lose my affiliates when [David] Letterman came into the game. And the CBS affiliates were very important to my strength, my success, and my profits. … I always said, when I end it, I want to go out on the top,” he says.

Hall’s new memoir is Arsenio.

Interview highlights

Arsenio Hall and executive producer Marla Kell Brown pose during the show’s staff PJ party.

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On why his stage had couches instead of the desk that other late-night shows used 

Marla Kell Brown, my partner in crime, the executive producer, partner of the show … she had seen me do stand-up, and she talked about how I moved, and how free I was. She wanted me to be able to get up, to touch a guest, to decide to sit next to a guest. She felt — and she was right — the desk was this shield. This desk was something I was hiding behind. This desk was protective. And she wanted to take it away from me. When I took over for Joan Rivers, they let me host The Joan Rivers Show when she quit. And she had a desk. So at Fox, I’m sitting behind the Joan Rivers’ desk, and Marla said, “Why don’t you try it without the desk? I think you’ll like it. I would love to see you without that desk.” And we tried it. I had to admit she’s right, and the rest is history. I have to listen to Marla more often. …

It worked really well. When I watched it the first time, I knew it. To be able to lean into a guest and not have something between you. I remember doing an interview with Rosie Perez … [and] I held her hand during the interview because she was nervous. I remember an interview where Diana Ross kissed me. You can’t kiss me with the desk in between us. It created a different visual of a show and it became a thing.

On Magic Johnson‘s 1991 appearance, in which he talked about his HIV diagnosis

I call him Earv, Magic Johnson. He was a friend. And he called me because I had been worried about him. … And one of the things I remember most is he was afraid of losing friends, losing the love of friends and family. I remember the sentence, “I want people to still give me my hugs,” because Magic is a warm and fuzzy guy, and he’s that guy. I hugged him to show him I love him and I care.

I had heard a comic do an AIDS joke. And it was a very homophobic type joke. … We were so ignorant. We didn’t even know the rules of how you get it. And there were basketball players who didn’t want to play with Magic. So I think God gave me that hug or the inspiration to do that, to show people we don’t have to be afraid. …

I asked Earvin to go on Larry King or do Mike Wallace or something. I was like, “No, man, I can’t do that interview. You know me, I’m a crier. … You need a serious platform, dude. You need a journalist. I’m a comedian and infotainment late night guy.” And he says, “No I need you. I need to come there. I need come where I’m comfortable, because I’ve got to talk to the nation. And I’ve gotta give them my point of view. And I want to do it where I am comfortable.” So the point guard ran the play, and I just followed. And like he did in basketball, he makes everybody better.

On his angry reaction to being heckled by activists from Queer Nation in 1990 

I think you become more angry and you become stronger when you realize you are right, because a huge part of my staff was gay, many of my guests were gay, but it was at a time when you didn’t always know it. So the gay people on my show couldn’t even come to my defense. Ellen [DeGeneres] couldn’t come and say, “Oh, wait a minute, you guys don’t know.” … And Rosie [O’Donnell] was on the show a lot and a lot of people that may be still in the closet, so I won’t mention their names, but, it wasn’t my job to say, “Ladies and gentlemen, balladeer and homosexual, put your hands together …” It wasn’t my job to introduce a singer that way.

I think part of my anger was at that point [was] I’m being told by the Black community that it ain’t Black enough. I’m being told by the Paramount executives that it ain’t white enough. And now the gay community is gonna attack me during the show? You’re gonna take money out of my wallet and food off my family’s plate? In the middle of my job here, when you don’t know what you’re talking about? You’re gonna blame me for something that is absolutely not true? I think I was sick of being criticized by everyone because everyone wanted it to be something else. It’s hard being the first Black anything in late night.

On the success of his show 

I changed the culture in a way that I exposed America to some things they might not have seen if I didn’t come along then. If I came along now, it would be irrelevant. Everybody would now be gathering to watch Hammer, or this little Bruno Mars, or the Magic Johnson announcement. Timing is also very important. Talent is important. Hard work is important. But timing — if I came along 10 years before that, or if I came a long 10 years from now, it wouldn’t work. And that’s what’s really cool about life. Sometimes it’s the timing that matters.

Anna Bauman and Nico Gonzalez Wisler produced and edited this interview for broadcast. Bridget Bentz, Molly Seavy-Nesper and Clare Lombardo adapted it for the web.

I’m looking for something that’s open early on the weekends (9 a.m.?) where we can take our 2-year-old daughter. We don’t want it to be an indoor play place or something that is solely designed for kids. Ideally, it would be something that adults enjoy too. Maybe something outdoors or with a restaurant/cafe where we can give ourselves a little treat. We are in Manhattan Beach and have to be back home by 12:30 p.m. for nap time. We’ve been able to make drives to Pasadena and Orange County and make it back in time (bonus of leaving on a Saturday or Sunday because there’s no traffic!) — Brittany Newell

Here’s what we suggest:

Finding places that will keep both you and your toddler entertained can be tricky. But don’t fret, Brittany! I’ve enlisted the help of some of my colleagues who are also parents that understand the need to flee the house before nap time. I’ve compiled a list of fun mini adventures that you can start early-ish.

For an activity close to home, Michelle Woo, The Times’ West Coast experiences editor, suggests renting a toddler bike trailer or bike seat from one of the local shops and taking a ride along the Strand from Manhattan to Redondo and back to Hermosa for a stop at Good Stuff, a beachside restaurant where you can enjoy a refreshing smoothie, mimosa or Woo’s go-to order, “the Good Stuff Breakfast with a pork sausage patty — simple yet comforting.” Then let your daughter play in the sand for a while. And if you haven’t been to the Roundhouse Aquarium before, it’s definitely worth a visit. The free, donation-based marine educational center is home to swell sharks, sea urchins, jellyfish and more that will leave visitors of any age in awe.

About 12 miles up the coast in Venice Beach is the newly renovated Windward Plaza Playground, a nautical-themed fun zone equipped with slides, swings, climbers and more. The best part is that it’s located on the sand at the beach just steps away from the famous boardwalk. Before you get to the park, my colleague Amy King suggests stopping by Breakaway Cafe for yummy breakfast burritos or Menotti’s for coffee.

For an early morning adventure, Times entertainment and features editor Brittany Levine Beckman recommends visiting the Riverside bike path in Frogtown, which opens at 6 a.m., so you can start as early as you’d like. She and her husband usually take turns pushing their 18-month-old daughter in a tricycle along the pathway and get their steps in. Afterward, she suggests going to Lingua Franca, a restaurant situated along the river. “We’ve arrived a few times as soon as the restaurant opens at 10 a.m. on the weekend and been the only early-bird brunchers,” she tells me. “We grab a table outside in the back and our daughter meanders without us feeling annoying.” The restaurant also serves a toddler-approved Dutch baby and a parent-approved bloody Mary, she adds. If you prefer to just grab a coffee, go to Tadaa.Coffee, which has a sand pit that your daughter can play in.

Another fun option is the Natural History Museum in Exposition Park, where you can wander through the awe-inspiring Dinosaur Hall, learn about the evolution of mammals, roam through the enchanting nature gardens and admire more than 2,000 gems and minerals from across the globe. The museum opens at 9:30 a.m., but there’s still plenty of time to explore before nap time. Levine Beckman also enjoys taking her daughter to the museum. “Our toddler loves the animal dioramas,” she tells me. “She likes staring up at the dinosaur bones too (and can say “roar” now), but the big stuffed animals are her favorite.” For food, my colleague Sophia Kercher recommends South LA Cafe, which is located at the museum.

Now for some rapid-fire ideas: Kercher suggests the Stoneview Nature Center, which is a plant-filled city sanctuary nestled in Culver City’s Blair Hills. Here you can chase hummingbirds, roam through the never-crowded garden and “visit Stoneview’s resident quails, which have their own fenced-in compound called, ‘Quallywood,’” she says. Times contributor Rachel Kraus, who recently wrote about the rise of mall parks in Southern California (and why parents are loving them), suggests the Proud Bird near LAX, which she calls “a one stop shop parent and kid utopia.” She adds, “You can order food and drinks (including from a full bar) and let your kids run around on the outdoor play structure, kick a ball on the turf or explore the vintage airplanes.” Also, be sure to check out our list of L.A. playgrounds that are close to coffee shops where you can get a jolt of energy if needed.

I hope these suggestions are helpful with planning your next morning adventure with your toddler and that you are able to create some fun new memories together. Happy exploring!

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