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The Egyptian Lover has always been that guy

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The Egyptian Lover has always been that guy

A strobe of light dances off trees in the Santa Barbara mountains as the Egyptian Lover takes the decks. It’s the weekend before Halloween, high time for the freaks to descend. The Egyptian Lover steps into the booth, cutting his iconic figure against the night sky — Kangol hat on backward, Roland TR-808 drum machine operating as an extra appendage — L.A.’s most mythic figure of freakiness rising. The scene: A vaguely bohemian indie-electronic festival running rampant with stoned college kids dressed as Velma and Scooby, tech-house bros and aging Burners looking for a dopamine hit. It’s not immediately the kind of vibe that feels compatible with the famously raunchy electro-hop that the Egyptian Lover pioneered in the 1980s, defining an era of L.A. partying and shaping the West Coast hip-hop scene that would come after. But this infectious sound and the Egyptian Lover himself are their own universes, have been for a long time. A crowd connects because they have no other choice but to connect— even now, he holds a mystique that feels older than the pyramids. Build it and they will come.

Think of an Egyptian Lover set as a piece of performance art that takes you somewhere both far away and eerily familiar — yesterday, tomorrow, Egypt, South-Central. There is rapping, there is pop-locking, there is scratching, there is narrative and character. Each set is an homage to a version of the past that was always drawing from the future, leaving you on a unique energetic plane. Tonight, he’s pulling from the same record bag that he built 40 years ago — his earliest influences being inflection points in his set: Afrika Bambaataa’s “Planet Rock,” Prince, Kraftwerk. He sings into the mic as he plays his hits — “Egypt Egypt,” “My House (On the Nile).” He scans the crowd as his fingers do the kind of inconceivable tricks on the turntables that cemented him as one of the greats, embodying one of this most famous songs (“What Is a D.J. if He Can’t Scratch”), and plays his drum machine live with his sunglasses on in the pitch black, clear that he’s connecting to source. “Santa Barbara freaaaaaaaks,” the Egyptian Lover says into the mic. “Santa Barbara freaaaaaaaks,” the angels, monsters and Luigis in the crowd parrot back to him.

Most of the people at the festival weren’t even born when the Egyptian Lover possessed crowds of 10,000 at the L.A. Sports Arena when headlining for legendary party crew Uncle Jamm’s Army in the early ’80s, his combination of turntable skills, scent of his Jheri curl activator and burgeoning Lothario aura creating an intoxicating vibe soup that inspired collective frenzy. But his lore, his legend is felt here and everywhere else. When I tell a friend I’m writing about the Egyptian Lover, she starts dancing like a pharaoh, hands jutting in opposite directions. When I tell my mom I’m writing about the Egyptian Lover, she instinctively starts singing, “Egypt / Egypt / Egyptian Lover,” pairing it with a reflexive pop-lock, ingrained from her days dancing to his music at clubs in Tijuana.

The Egyptian Lover wears an Entire Studios shirt, and jacket, a David Yurman necklace, glasses and a hat.

The Egyptian Lover wears an Entire Studios shirt, and jacket, a David Yurman necklace, glasses from Gentlemen’s Breakfast, and his own hat.

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There’s a delicate balance between then and now for the Egyptian Lover, who goes by Egypt for those in the know. But the mistake people make is their idea of the Egyptian Lover existing strictly in terms of the past — a nostalgia act. Egypt embraces his past, keeps it as close to his chest as he does his 808. He’s never been one of those artists who wants to escape the thing that made him popular in the first place, feeling creatively imprisoned by his impact and then pivoting, only never to be heard from again. He made this world from scratch — where freakiness was encouraged, where hieroglyphics including camels, pyramids, the Eye of Horus, ankh and pharaohs are part of the visual language, where nasty lyrics paired with an entrancing electro beat are the formula. And he’s brought that world with him wherever he goes. Over his 40-year career, he’s never stopped touring. In the last few months alone he’s played nearly 20 cities across the globe.

Earlier this year, independent book publisher Bob Dominguez released an archival photobook celebrating 40 years of the Egyptian Lover’s seminal album, “On the Nile,” after working on it for two years. (808 copies of the book, also called “On the Nile,” were released total.) It charts the Egyptian Lover’s rise through old photos, from the artist’s personal collection, where the gold chains are stacked, curls are juicy, chest hair is popping and the windbreaker tracksuits are scratchy. It features interviews with L.A. musical icons who were there when it happened, including the Arabian Prince, Ice-T, Dām-Funk, and those watching his rise from afar, giving shape and understanding to what was happening in L.A., including Detroit legend Moodymann. It features hand-written parts of his history, drawings, old party fliers, lyrics jotted down from the album. Seeing all of the ephemera in one place, it strikes you how many layers and how much time it takes to truly build a world and an identity, how strong you have to be in your artistry and conviction to hold onto it for decades after.

“I don’t even want to stop,” the Egyptian Lover says into the mic on stage in Santa Barbara. “I’ve been in this s— for 40 years. Oh, yeah. I’m loving it. I’m loving it.”

Born Greg Broussard in 1963, the Egyptian Lover grew up on the east side of South-Central in a house where the record collection included Dean Martin, the O’Jays, Barry White, Tom Jones and Frank Sinatra. The classics. Broussard’s father, Creole from Louisiana, was objectively fly — “the Rat Pack guy” — a photo from the book shows him in a slick black turtleneck under a suit jacket, long pendant chain hanging down to his torso. His mother, once a choir singer and one of 16 children, had generational roots in Watts and Compton. She was supportive of her son’s burgeoning musical interests, lending him the $600 he needed to buy his first drum machine, effectively changing the course of his life and the state of L.A. music as we know it. His brother, David Broussard, is a musician, too, and served as his earliest influence — he played the saxophone and read music, encouraging his brother to hone in on his practice. “He didn’t know how to DJ, but he taught me how to DJ — he taught me everything,” Egypt says. “I was listening to this record. He said, ‘Start it over, only listen to the bass line.’ I’d never heard that before. He said, ‘Start it over, only listen to the drums.’ Now I heard the record in layers. When I started making music, I made it in those layers.”

The name, legend and sound of the Egyptian Lover drew from the lure of the unknown, from pop culture. It was an amalgamation of his favorite artists, infused with a genetic code that was specific to L.A. The Nile was a place far away enough from the violence of his neighborhood, where gunshots were par for the course and the streets were being hit hard by the crack epidemic. He was also an aspiring Casanova, inspired by the swag of silent film actor Rudolph Valentino, known as the Latin Lover. Egypt was moved by the Dean Martin records his dad had at home — they showed him how an artist could create a unique imprint for themselves. “No matter what record you pick out of his career, they all sounded the same. They had that Dean Martin sound — that signature,” Egypt says. “I said, ‘If I was an artist, I would do that. Every record I make will be my style — the Egyptian Lover style, not the West Coast, not the East Coast, but the Egyptian Lover style.’” (The world-building has been so strong that to this day, people still make the mistake of thinking he’s from Egypt. He’s traveled the world playing music, but that’s one place he still hasn’t made it to.)

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Broussard was shy growing up, and his way of getting to know people — or, more specifically, meeting women — was by making mixtapes and selling them with his friend and classmate Snake Puppy (a future hip-hop pioneer who would go on to be part of L.A.’s Dream Team), at James Monroe High School in the San Fernando Valley. Even the bus driver bought the Egyptian Lover’s mixtapes, which pulled everyone from Rod Stewart to Rick James into the same universe. “I had one turntable, one cassette player, a boombox and I was just making the best mixtape ever,” he remembers. “I put a rap on an instrumental song, ‘Bounce, Rock, Skate, Roll.’ I was selling that at my high school for $5 and then it got so popular one of my friends said, ‘Man, it’s supply and demand. You’re selling out before you get to school. Double the price for $10.’ Ten dollars is a lot in 1979.”

The Egyptian Lover sitting in a chair.
Portrait of The Egyptian Lover with his Roland Rhythm Composer.
The Egyptian Lover wears a  suit,  necklaces,  shoes and sweater, and his own ring, hat and glasses.

The Egyptian Lover wears a Margiela suit, David Yurman necklaces, stylist’s own shoes and sweater, and his own ring, hat and glasses.

At the time, Uncle Jamm’s Army, led by master programmer and promoter Rodger Clayton, was throwing the most legendary functions in L.A. The Egyptian Lover as we know him today was born of that ecosystem. His technical skill was instinctual and his style was unmatched — up until this point, scratching was mostly an East Coast thing. Under Egypt’s steady hand, each zip of a record sounded like an incantation. “[Fellow Uncle Jamm’s Army DJ] Bobcat always called me the devil,” Egypt remembers. “He was like, ‘There’s no way you can do these things that you’re doing.’” After a few months of DJing with Uncle Jamm’s, another member, Gid Martin, came up to him and said, Between me and you, people are only paying to get in to see if you’re DJing. They’re coming to see you.”

Egypt tells the story of how he discovered the Roland TR-808 drum machine for the first time the way someone recalls meeting the love of their life — half of it prescriptive, every inflection point memorized; the other half still novel and almost unbelievable, the miracle of discovering a foundational truth about yourself for the first time. Egypt felt something kindred in listening to “Planet Rock,” the genre-bending anthem by East Coast hip-hop pioneer Afrika Bambaataa. When he met Afrika Islam, Bambaataa’s mentee, he told him that the track was made using a drum machine. A drum machine? He’d heard of drum sets, never drum machines. “I went to the Guitar Center in Hollywood to buy it and I asked the clerk, ‘Can you show me how to program it?’ So I made ‘Planet Rock’ over and I was listening to it on these big amplifiers. I started changing the beat up a little bit and doing crazy stuff — just trying it and it was working. That’s when the clerk said, ‘Don’t turn around.’ So I turned around and I saw all these rock and roll guys who I’ve seen on MTV before looking at me, dancing and clapping. Like, ‘Whoa.’”

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The night he played his 808 live for the first time at an Uncle Jamm’s Army party in 1983 is “what transformed Egypt from a DJ to an artist,” Egypt’s brother, David, is quoted as saying in Dominguez’s book. The crowd was screaming his name while dancing, wholly possessed by the deeply ancestral, bewitchingly robotic beat of the drum machine coming from Uncle Jamm’s Army’s regular set-up — a temple of sound worship made up of 100 Cerwin Vega speakers. It was this moment, in part, that would spark a meteoric rise for Egypt, resulting in nearly a dozen albums (the latest of which was made this year), KDAY programmer Greg Mack playing his songs on a loop on the radio, and becoming the label boss of Egyptian Empire Records. “To this day, I still do my concerts based on the last hour of the Sports Arena,” Egypt says.

Egypt’s brand of electro is as physical as it is mental, the first time you hear it, it’s forever ingrained. Dominguez, who was born years after Egypt’s debut “On the Nile” came out, remembers driving around his hometown of Logan Heights in San Diego as a kid with his dad, who would play the Egyptian Lover as an education. “Egypt just caught my ear as a kid,” Dominguez, who also works in culture marketing at Nike, remembers. “Skipping up a few years, in high school when I’m independent through my music, I remember having “Egypt Egypt” on my iPod Nano. This was the song to big me up. Like, ‘I’m in the mix. I’m in it.’”

There is one thing that can be agreed upon: the Egyptian Lover is, has always been, that guy. In the book, there are photos of him in high school, posing with two women flanking either side of him. “He’s one of the best DJs in the world, especially still mixing vinyl, and he holds his own to all these guys who are basically sticking a USB in something,” his childhood friend AJ Kirby says. I get to our interview early, watch Egypt get out of his BMW from my rearview mirror and head into Mexican haunt El Cholo’s South Park location he’s been coming to for the last few years whenever he needs a quiet place to talk business. When I walk into the empty restaurant a couple minutes later, he’s sitting in a corner booth holding court, chips and salsa already on the table. The servers seem to know him. He just got back from Croatia, where over the years he’s played festivals like Love International and Dimensions. I follow his Instagram where he gives updates on tour. One of the most recent: “Berlin…. Yall ready?”

Egypt shows me a video of a festival he played in Latvia. It’s the part of his set where he does a call and response with the crowd. A wall of thousands of bodies, not a phone in sight, are in total admiration, locked into the moment. “8-0-mothaf—-8,” they scream in reverence of Egypt’s drum machine. “8-0-muthaf—-8.” The energy is overwhelming, even through a video. It’s easy to see why touring, despite being hard on anyone, especially someone who has been doing this for decades, would drive him all these years. There’s nothing like affecting a crowd with your sound — which for Egypt’s has transcended its birthplace (L.A.), even its metaphorical birthplace (Egypt), and has gone global.

An August Virgo with no agent and an ability to respond to emails at lightning speed, Egypt has been doing his own booking for years. Since retiring from the police force, his childhood friend and former neighbor, Kirby, has been touring with him. In Santa Barbara, he was hawking some of Egypt’s records and apparel, including a letterman jacket that has the words “FREAK-A-HOLIC” running down the arm sleeve. Each show is a chance to return to the self, remind people of the story he’s telling. Egypt recalls the time he opened for Afrika Bambaataa. He wanted to see the artist perform “Planet Rock” live, but he went in a completely different direction, abandoning his hit completely. The moment stuck with Egypt for years. “I wanted to see why he is who he is,” he recalls. “He didn’t show us that. I realized I had to show them why I am who I am.”

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Egypt is self-assured and funny, cocky in a clear-eyed way. Even in his 60s, his “pyramid playboy” persona remains. There seems to be an understanding that artists like the Egyptian Lover exist in relation to their environment: In the ’80s when Egypt was DJing for thousands, a dance called “The Freak” was king — glorified grinding. While one of the main references, Prince, might have been nasty in a subtle way, songs rife with double entendre, Egypt was just nasty. Each song became permission for the crowd to become embodied: “Give me a freaky, kinky nation with a total female population / I can deal with that situation / I don’t care about my reputation,” he raps on stage in Santa Barbara to “Egypt Egypt.” Even his earworm “Dirty Passionate Yell,” released earlier this year on his “1987” album, proclaims: “I can do the things your lover can’t do / Fly you places and just spoil you / I can keep you happy every day and every night / With this ultra-freaky appetite.”

The lyrics in Egyptian Lover’s first album, “On the Nile,” served as a kind of manifestation of his last four decades in the game: “I’m the Egyptian Lover, baby / I’m number one / I’m a mixing-scratching-rappin’-lovin’-son-of-a-gun.” These days, Egypt lives what some might see as a double life. He’s been married since the ’90s, raising two stepdaughters and taking on the role of “Papa” to three grandkids who despite having no blood relation to Egypt look exactly like him. They’re close. He doesn’t have turntables or a studio in his house but he does have a playroom stacked with toys for his grandchildren.

The Egyptian Lover wears a Pro Club tracksuit, necklaces, vintage glasses and his own hat and ring.

The Egyptian Lover wears a Pro Club tracksuit, David Yurman necklaces, vintage Yves Saint Laurent glasses from Gentlemen’s Breakfast, and his own hat and ring.

The story of how he met his wife was its own kind of kindred moment, an encounter that would unknowingly carve out his path as an artist. Right after graduating high school, he was living in his parents’ backhouse and courting one of his classmates. One day, she came over and shared a new album she’d stumbled across, Kraftwerk’s “Computer World.” She asked Egypt to make a tape of it so they could both have a copy. When he heard it for the first time, it shifted something in his cellular makeup. He didn’t know music could sound like this. The German electronic band would become one of his musical touchstones forever more. “It blew me away. Like, ‘What is this?’ This is futuristic.” He ended up keeping the record and she kept the tape. After that, they lost touch. He became a touring musician, and she married someone else. Then his 10-year high school reunion happened and they ran into each other again. How could he ever forget the girl who showed him Kraftwerk? “I said, ‘Where’s your husband?’ She said, ‘I’m separated.’ We went on a date and got married,” Egypt remembers. Even with his grueling schedule, he tries not to be on tour for more than a couple weeks at a time. He’s a family man now.

“I think he’s honestly the busiest now since he’s been since the late ’80s,” Dominguez says about Egypt. In between tour dates earlier this year, he released a song with producer Josh Baker and Rome Fortune, “Dr. Feel Right.” He’s also in the process of completing his next album, set to be out mid-next year.

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There’s a lineage of L.A. DJs who would arguably not be here if it wasn’t for the Egyptian Lover ripping all those years ago. He still serves as supreme inspiration. At the release party for the archival photobook, “On the Nile,” held at Peanut Butter Wolf’s Highland Park vinyl bar, the Gold Line, L.A. DJ Spiñorita watched in reverence as Egypt signed copies of the book. His music is a mainstay in any set she plays. “The Egyptian Lover is such a legend that it goes off anywhere,” she says, but especially for what she calls a “Dodgers crowd,” in other words, L.A. people. “It’s become part of who I am as a DJ. I will say that on the mic, ‘Where the freaks at?’ The crowd gets this excited feeling of: ‘We’re free, we’re here, we’re dancing, we’re being who we want to be, we’re feeling sexy.’”

Egypt’s music has been passed down through eras, generations, places, each group or moment claiming something about it as their own. “I’ll do some concerts, and all I’ll see is young kids singing the words to the song,” Egypt says. “I’m like, ‘This is so cool.’” On New Year’s Eve, Egyptian Lover plays on home turf at Zebulon. The New Year’s Eve show in L.A. has become a kind of tradition. It’s fitting: He was always the person meant to connect our past with the future. The ‘80s to infinity.

Grooming Carla Perez
Production Cecilia Alvarez Blackwell
Styling assistants Berlin Ventura, Jael Valdez

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Portrait of The Egyptian Lover

The Egyptian Lover wears an Emporio Armani jacket and hat, a Pro Club shirt, Second/Layer pants, David Yurman necklace, vintage Cazal glasses from Gentlemen’s Breakfast, stylist’s own shoes, and his own ring and hat.

Lifestyle

A glimpse of Iran, through the eyes of its artists and journalists

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A glimpse of Iran, through the eyes of its artists and journalists

Understanding one of the world’s oldest civilizations can’t be achieved through a single film or book. But recent works of literature, journalism, music and film by Iranians are a powerful starting point. Clockwise from top left: The Seed of the Sacred Fig, For The Sun After Long Nights, Cutting Through Rocks, It Was Just an Accident, Martyr!, and Kayhan Kalhor.

NEON; Pantheon; Gandom Films Production; NEON; Vintage; Julia Gunther for NPR


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NEON; Pantheon; Gandom Films Production; NEON; Vintage; Julia Gunther for NPR

Few Americans have had the opportunity to visit or explore Iran, an ethnically diverse nation of over 90 million people which has been effectively shut off from the United States since the Iranian revolution of 1979. Now, with a U.S. and Israeli-led war on Iran underway, the ideas, feelings and opinions of Iranians may feel less accessible. However, some recent books, films and music made by artists and journalists in Iran and from the Iranian diaspora can help illuminate this ancient culture and its contemporary politics.

These suggestions are just a starting point, of course — with an emphasis on recent works made by Iranians themselves, rather than by outsiders looking in.

Books

For the Sun After Long Nights: The Story of Iran’s Women-Led Uprising, by Fatemeh Jamalpour and Nilo Tabrizy

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For the Sun After Long Nights: The Story of Iran's Women-Led Uprising

There are quite a few excellent titles that deconstruct the history of Iran from ancient times through the rule of the Pahlavi Dynasty to the Iranian Revolution. But there are far fewer books that help us understand the Iran of 2026 and the people who live there now. One standout is the National Book Award-nominated For the Sun After Long Nights: The Story of Iran’s Women-Led Uprising by journalists Fatemeh Jamalpour and Nilo Tabrizy, which chronicles — almost in real time — the Woman, Life, Freedom movement that began in 2022, during which Jamalpour was working secretly as a journalist in Tehran. In 2024-25, Jamalpour (who is now living in exile in the U.S.) and I spent a year together at the University of Michigan’s Knight-Wallace fellowship for journalists; her insights into contemporary Iran are among the best.

Gold, by Rumi, translated by Haleh Liza Gafori

Gold

If Americans are familiar with Persian poetry at all, it may well be through popular “translations” of the 13th-century Sufi poet Jalaluddin Rumi done by the late American poet Coleman Barks, who neither read nor spoke the Persian language and detached the works of Molana (“our master”), as Iranians call him, of references to Islam. (Instead, Barks “interpreted” preexisting English translations.)

In 2022, Iranian-American poet, performance artist and singer Haleh Liza Gafori offered the first volume of a corrective, in the form of fresh Rumi translations that are at once accessible, deeply contemplative and immediate. A second volume, Water, followed last year.

Martyr!: A Novel, by Kaveh Akbar

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Martyr!: A Novel

This 2024 debut novel by Kaveh Akbar, the poetry editor at The Nation, is an unflinching tour-de-force bursting with wit and insight into the complications of diaspora, the nature of identity in a post-War on Terror world and the inter-generational impact of the 1979 Revolution on Iranians. The protagonist, the Iran-born but American-raised Cyrus Shams, has struggled with addiction, depression and insomnia his whole life, and is trying his best to make sense of a world at the “intersection of Iranian-ness and Midwestern-ness.” As with so many other of the titles here, fiction and fact are woven together: the story centers around the true story of the U.S. downing an Iranian passenger plane in 1988 during the Iran-Iraq war.

The Stationery Shop: A Novel, by Marjan Kamali

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Marjan Kamali’s 2019 love story is the wistful tale of a young woman named Roya and an idealistic activist named Bahman, who meet cute in a Tehran store in the 1950s, but whose planned marriage falls apart due to turmoil both familial and political, as Iran’s democratically elected government falls in a U.S.-British lead coup that ends with the installation of the Shah. Roya flees to the U.S. for a fresh start, but the two reunite in 2013, wondering: what if life had spun out in a different direction?

Movies

Coup 53

This 2019 documentary directed by Iranian film maker Taghi Amirani and co-written by Walter Murch recounts Operation Ajax, in which the CIA and Britain’s MI6 engineered the removal of Mohammad Mossadegh, Iran’s democratically elected prime minister, and installed a friendly ruler, Shah Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, in his place. (The Shah was ousted in the 1979 revolution.) As Fresh Air critic John Powers noted in his review, “What emerges first is the backstory of the coup, which like so much in the modern Middle East is predicated on oil. Shortly after the black gold was discovered in early 20th century Iran, a British oil company now known as BP locked up a sweetheart deal for its exploitation. Iran not only got a mere 16% of the oil money before British taxes, but the books were kept by the British — and the Iranians weren’t allowed to see them.”

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YouTube

Cutting Through Rocks

Sara Khaki and Mohammadreza Eyni’s film Cutting Through Rocks is up for an Oscar this season after premiering at the 2025 Sundance Film Festival. This inspiring documentary follows Sara Shahverdi — a divorced, childless motorcyclist — as she campaigns to become the first woman elected to the city council of her remote village, and who dreams of teaching girls to ride and to end child marriage.

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It Was Just an Accident

The latest film from acclaimed director Jafar Panahi — who has officially been banned from making films in Iran — is 2025’s It Was Just an Accident. Panahi, who has been jailed multiple times for his work and was recently sentenced again in absentia, has said in interviews that his inspiration for this brutal – and shockingly funny – thriller was people he met while in prison: an auto mechanic named Vahid finds himself face-to-face with the man who he is fairly certain was his torturer in jail, and eventually assembles other victims to try to confirm his suspicions. Fresh Air critic Justin Chang called It Was Just an Accident “a blast of pure anti-authoritarian rage.”

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YouTube

The Seed of the Sacred Fig

This 2024 thriller — shot in secret by director Mohammad Rasoulof — centers on a family whose father, Iman, is appointed as an investigating judge in Tehran. But it soon becomes clear that his job has nothing to do with actually investigating. Iman, his wife, and two daughters come to suspect each other in our age of mass surveillance, as the city streets below erupt into the real-life Woman, Life, Freedom protests.

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Music

Kayhan Kalhor

One of the primary ambassadors of Persian classical music has been the composer and kamancheh (an Iranian bowed-instrument) virtuoso Kayhan Kalhor. Although music, like poetry, has been central to Iranian culture for centuries, all kinds of music were initially banned after the 1979 revolution. Since then, however, Iranian classical musicians have ridden many looping cycles of official condemnation, grudging tolerance, censorship and attempts at co-option by the regime.

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Despite those difficulties, Kalhor has built a thriving career both inside Iran and abroad, including winning a Grammy Award as part of the Silkroad Ensemble and earning three nominations as a solo artist. Back in 2012, I invited him to our Tiny Desk to perform solo. “Didn’t know I could have goosebumps for 12 minutes straight,” a YouTube commenter recently wrote; I couldn’t put it any better.

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Saeid Shanbehzadeh

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Among Iran’s 92 million people, about 40% of come from various ethnic minorities, including Azeris, Kurds and Armenians among many others. One of the most fascinating communities is the Afro-Iranians in the Iranian south, many of whose ancestors were brought to Iran as enslaved people from east Africa. Multi-instrumentalist and dancer Saeid Shanbehzadeh, who traces his ancestry to Zanzibar, celebrates that heritage with his band, and specializes in the Iranian bagpipe and percussion.

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The underground metal scene

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Despite ongoing restrictions on music — including the continued ban on female singers performing in mixed-gender public settings — Iran is home to a thriving underground scene for metal and punk. Though it’s fictional, Farbod Ardebelli’s 2020 short drama Forbidden to See Us Scream in Tehran — which was secretly filmed in Tehran, with the director giving instructions remotely from the U.S. via WhatsApp — gives a flavor of that real-life scene and the dangers those artists face.

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Sen. Thom Tillis Rips Kristi Noem, Compares ICE Killings To Dog She Killed

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Sen. Thom Tillis Rips Kristi Noem, Compares ICE Killings To Dog She Killed

Sen. Tillis To Kristi Noem
ICE Killings Are Like Dog You Killed

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For filmmaker Chloé Zhao, creative life was never linear

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For filmmaker Chloé Zhao, creative life was never linear

In 2021, Zhao made history as the first woman of color to win the best director Oscar for her film Nomadland. Her Oscar-nominated drama Hamnet has made $70 million worldwide.

Bethany Mollenkof for NPR


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Bethany Mollenkof for NPR

It took a very special kind of spirit to make Hamnet, which is nominated for best picture at this year’s Academy Awards. Chloé Zhao brought her uniquely sensitive, mind-body approach to directing the fictionalized story about how William Shakespeare was inspired to write his masterpiece Hamlet.

Zhao adapted the screenplay from a novel by Maggie O’Farrell, and for directing the film, she’s now nominated for an Oscar. She could make history by becoming the first woman to win the best director award more than once.

Zhao says she believes in ceremonies and rituals, in setting an intention, a mood, a vibration for any event. Before Hamnet premiered at the Toronto International Film Festival last year, she led the audience in a guided meditation and a breathing exercise.

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Zhao also likes to loosen up, like she did at a screening of Hamnet in Los Angeles last month, when she got the audience to get up and dance with her to a Rihanna song.

She, her cast and crew had regular dance parties during the production of Hamnet. So for our NPR photo shoot and interview at a Beverly Hills hotel, I invited her to share some music from her playlist. She chose a track she described as “drones and tones.”

Our photographer captured her in her filmy white gown, peeking contemplatively from behind the filmy white curtains of a balcony at the Waldorf Astoria.

Director Chloé Zhao at the Waldorf-Astoria in Beverly Hills.

Zhao says she believes in ceremonies and rituals, and makes them a part of her filmmaking process.

Bethany Mollenkof for NPR


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Then Zhao and I sat down to talk.

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“I had a dream that we were doing this interview,” I told her. “And it started with a photo shoot, and there was a glass globe –”

“No way!” she gasped.

It so happens that on the desk next to us, was a small glass globe — perhaps a paperweight.

I told her that in my dream, she was looking through the globe at some projected images. “We were having fun and it was like we didn’t want it to stop,” I said.

“Oh, well, me and the globe and the lights on the wall: they’re all part of you,” Zhao said. “They’re your inner crystal ball, your inner Chloé.”

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“Inner Chloé?” I asked. “What is the inner Chloé like?”

“I don’t know, you tell me,” she said. “Humbly, from my lineage and what I studied is that everything in a dream is a part of our own psyche.”

Dreams and symbols are very much a part of Zhao’s approach to filmmaking, which she describes as a magical and communal experience. She said it’s all part of her directing style.

Chloé Zhao used painting and dance to connect with actors on the set of her latest film Hamnet.

Chloé Zhao used painting and dance to connect with actors on the set of her latest film Hamnet.

Bethany Mollenkof for NPR


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Bethany Mollenkof for NPR

“If you’re captain of any ship, you are not just giving instructions; people are also looking to you energetically as well,” she explained. “Whether it’s calmness, it’s groundedness, it’s feeling safe: then everyone else is going to tune to you.” Zhao says it has taken many years to get to this awareness. Her own journey began 43 years ago in Beijing, where she was born. She moved to the U.S. as a teen, and studied film at New York University where Spike Lee was one of her teachers. She continued honing her craft at the Sundance Institute labs — along with her friend Ryan Coogler and other indie filmmakers.

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Over the years, Zhao’s film catalogue has been eclectic — from her indie debut Songs My Brothers Taught Me, set on a Lakota Sioux reservation, to the big-budget Marvel superhero movie Eternals. She got her first best director Oscar in 2021 for the best picture winner Nomadland. Next up is a reboot of Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

“A creative life,” she notes, “is not a linear experience for me.”

Zhao still lingers over the making of Hamnet, a very emotional story about the death of a child. During the production, Zhao says she used somatic and tantric exercises and rituals to open and close shooting days.

She also invited her lead actors Paul Mescal and Jessie Buckley to help her set the mood on set. They danced, they painted, they meditated together.

“She created an atmosphere where everybody who chose to step in to tell this story was there for a reason that was deeply within them,” actress Jessie Buckley told me.

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Buckley is a leading contender for this year’s best actress Oscar. She said that to prepare for her very intense role as William Shakespeare’s wife, Zhao asked her to write down her dreams “as a kind of access point, to gently stir the waters of where I was feeling.”

Buckley sent Zhao her writings, and also music she felt was “a tone and texture of that essence.”

That kind of became the ritual of how they worked together, Buckley said. “And not just the cast were moving together, but the crew were and the camera was really creating dynamics and a collective unconscious.”

Filmmaker and Hamnet producer Steven Spielberg calls Zhao's empathy "her superpower."

Filmmaker and Hamnet producer Steven Spielberg calls Zhao’s empathy her superpower.

Bethany Mollenkof for NPR


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Bethany Mollenkof for NPR

That was incredibly useful for creating Hamnet — a story about communal grief. Steven Spielberg, who co-produced the film, called Zhao’s empathy her superpower.

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“In every glance, in every pause and every touch, in every tear, in every single moment of this film, every choice that Chloé made is evidence of her fearlessness,” Spielberg said when awarding Zhao a Directors Guild of America award. “In Hamnet, Chloé also shows us that there can be life after grief.”

Zhao says it took five years and a midlife crisis for her to develop the emotional tools she used to make Hamnet.

“I hope it could give people a two-hour little ceremony,” she told me. “And in the end, I hope that a point of contact can be made. That means that there’s a heart opening. But it will be painful, right? Because when your heart opens, you feel all the things you usually don’t feel. And then a catharsis can emerge.”

As our interview time came to a close, I told Zhao I have my own little ritual at the end of every interview; I record a few minutes of room tone, the ambient sound of the space we’re in. It’s for production purposes, to smooth out the audio.

Zhao knew just what I meant. She told me a story about her late friend Michael “Wolf” Snyder who was her sound recordist for Nomadland. “He said to me, ‘I don’t always need it, but just so you know, I am going to watch you. And when I tell that you are a little frazzled, I’m going to ask for a room tone … just to give you space.’” she recalled. “‘And if you feel like you need the silence space, you just look at me, nod. I’ll come ask for a room tone.’”

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I closed our interview ceremony with that moment of silence, a moment of peace, for director Chloé Zhao.

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