Lifestyle
David Lynch says he 'died a death' over the way his 'Dune' film turned out : Wild Card with Rachel Martin
David Lynch says he felt like he lived three different lives as a teenager.
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Vittorio Zunino Celotto/Getty Images

David Lynch says he felt like he lived three different lives as a teenager.
Vittorio Zunino Celotto/Getty Images
A note from Wild Card host Rachel Martin: David Lynch says that the first time he tried transcendental meditation, “It was as if I was in an elevator and someone snipped the cables — poof! Within I went.”
Down he plunged into his own subconscious.
And that analogy — of being in an elevator cut loose — is also what it feels like to absorb Lynch’s work. Whether it’s the TV show Twin Peaks or the movie Mulholland Drive, it feels like you are plunging into a dark and surreal part of the human psyche and it’s totally confusing but also thrilling.
And frankly, that feeling of being in the elevator in free fall is a little like what talking to him feels like. Our conversation started with some lovely memories of his childhood and then the elevator drops and suddenly we’re way deeper inside Lynch’s mind than I expected to go and we’re all just along for the ride.


At 78, Lynch is still making art. He’s planning on releasing a new album with the artist Chrystabell in August. He told me the music began as a sound experiment he was working on. When he got Chrystabell to sing over the music, he found “she is perfect for this and in ways I can’t really explain.”
That said, he doesn’t think the new music is an easy listen. He says even he was turned off by it initially: “First hearing it — total bulls***.” But, he also says it opened up to him with repeated listens. “Second hearing, a little bit less. Third hearing, beauty.”
The album’s title, Cellophane Memories, is a reference to the way the music moved him. “It just clicked as being like a friend. And it conjures memories … in listening to this, all these way-distant memories started bubbling up. Something about this music conjured memories.”
He says that will happen to anyone who listens: “You will find music that’ll bring back memories … that will bring so much beauty and happiness into your life. Beauty is so tender. It’s a tender music, but tender as in beautiful.”
This Wild Card interview has been edited for length and clarity. Host Rachel Martin asks guests randomly-selected questions from a deck of cards. Tap play above to listen to the full podcast, or read an excerpt below.
Question 1: What’s a moment from your childhood when you realized you wanted to make different choices than your parents?
David Lynch: I was on the front lawn of my girlfriend’s house — in the ninth grade. And I was meeting a fellow named Toby Keeler, who didn’t go to my high school. He went to a private school. And he was telling me that his father was a painter. And I thought at first his father was a house painter. But he said, “No, a fine art painter.” And a bomb went off in my head. A bomb that changed my life in a millisecond — completely changed my life.
And from that moment on, I wanted to be a painter — only that. So my father, being a research scientist for the Department of Agriculture, I never really wanted to be that. But wanting to be a painter, an artist, has made it for sure I wasn’t going to follow in my father’s footsteps.
Lynch poses in front of one of his artworks in 2007 at the Cartier Foundation for Contemporary art, during his exhibition “The Air is on Fire”.
Dominique Faget/AFP via Getty Images
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Dominique Faget/AFP via Getty Images
Rachel Martin: You had to have a high threshold for risk to pursue that path — or delusion, some might say. Where do you think that instinct came from, given that those weren’t things that were manifest in your parents’ life, necessarily?
Lynch: When you love something, there’s no problem. There’s no problem. You’re in love and you take whatever comes along. You’re in love.
Question 2: What was your form of rebelling as a teenager?
Lynch: Well, I lived three lives. I lived a home life. I lived a school life, with my sweetheart, my girlfriend. And the studio, you know, art life — and then also was a bit of a party animal.
So I had these three lives and I didn’t want any of them to mix, really. So I developed spasms of the intestines.
Martin: You developed a condition — so you created it for yourself? It was psychosomatic?
Lynch: It was a psychosomatic disease, yeah.
Martin: And what did it do for you?
Lynch: I s*** my pants. That’s what happened. It was a horrible thing. However, I’ll tell you a good side of this. The Vietnam War was cooking up around this time. And my father took me to a doctor because the spasms in the intestines. I got a [colonoscopy]. And the guy was a great doctor and he pretended that — as he was watching — that it was a racetrack. And he said, “Here they go around this corner! They’re going around — such and such number seven is in the lead! And they’re going around this corner!” — following the [colonoscopy], you know, as he was telling me about my intestines. Anyway, he said, “You have spasms of the intestines,” and he said, “By the way, I see on the X-rays, you have a vertebrae out of place, and if you ever get called for the army, I can give you these X-rays, and you probably won’t be called if you want to get out.”
So spasms of the intestines led to a doctor that helped me get out, and I didn’t have to go to Vietnam.
Question 3: What failure have you learned the most from?
Lynch: My film Dune. I knew already one should have final cut before signing on to do a film. But for some reason, I thought everything would be OK, and I didn’t put final cut in my contract. And as it turned out, Dune wasn’t the film I wanted to make, because I didn’t have a final say.
The trailer for David Lynch’s 1984 Dune.
YouTube
So that’s a lesson I knew even before, but now there’s no way. Why would anyone work for three years on something that wasn’t yours? Why? Why do that? Why? I died a death. And it was all my fault for not knowing to put that in the contract.
Question 4: Where have you experienced awe?
Lynch: My first meditation. I was at [the transcendental meditation] center and I’d just been taught. And I was taken to a little room and my teacher said, “Sit here, close the eyes. Sit here and start your meditation. I’ll be back in 20 minutes.”
So I sat and closed my eyes and started what I just learned and boom! It was as if I was in an elevator and someone snipped the cables — poof! Within I went. Whoa. Bliss. The bliss that makes you cry. So beautiful. So powerful. Transcendental meditation is garbage going out, gold coming in.

I always say we are living like in a suffocating rubber clown suit of negativity. We don’t want to be clowns. We don’t want to have this heavy stinking rubber all around us of negativity.
You start transcending every day, the rubber starts disintegrating, evaporating. And freedom comes. Bliss starts coming. It just happens automatically. It’s so beautiful. Why isn’t everybody and his little brother meditating? I don’t know. Go figure.
Martin: I have to say, you seem to truly have found some level of contentment that I don’t think a lot of people have found.
Lynch: It’s all there within. If it can happen to me, it can happen to anybody. And it’s a great trip we’re all on. It just makes it greater when you’re transcending every day. Money in the bank. 20 minutes in the morning, 20 minutes in the afternoon, and go about your business the rest of the time.
Lifestyle
Why the French Open is named after Roland Garros, who didn’t play tennis
French aviator Roland Garros pictured in the cockpit of an aircraft in 1911.
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The second tennis Grand Slam tournament of the year is underway in Paris: the French Open, as many English-speakers call it.
But the official name of the tournament — and the complex where it takes place — is Roland Garros. Many tennis tournaments are named after famous players, like the Davis Cup and the Billie Jean King Cup.

Roland Garros, however, was an aviation pioneer and World War I fighter pilot with no known connection to the racquet sport.
“He’s an important figure in early aviation, both as a record-setter before the war and as a wartime pilot,” says Christopher Moore, the curator for World War I aircraft at the Smithsonian’s National Air and Space Museum. “He’s considered the first person to shoot down another aircraft with a gun firing forward between the propeller.”
So how did Garros become synonymous with tennis?
The short answer: In 1928, a decade after Garros was killed in action, Paris’ new tennis stadium needed a name. Emile Lesueur, president of the Stade Français rugby club, suggested Garros — his former business school classmate.
“I guess he was a national hero, and that kind of tells you how people thought about him,” Moore says.
Here’s the (slightly) longer version.
Roland Garros is both the name of the tennis tournament and the Paris facility where it is held.
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Dan Istitene/Getty Images
Garros’ high-flying career set records
Garros was born in 1888 on Réunion, a French island in the Indian Ocean. The island’s main international airport now bears his name, too.
He grew up playing soccer, rugby and cycling — but “was not an avid tennis player,” as the tennis tournament’s website explains. Garros was not originally drawn to aviation either: He graduated from business school and founded a car dealership.
But everything changed when Garros, then in his early 20s, attended the first major international air show in the Champagne region of France, in August 1909.
“He decides that he wants to be a pilot, so he basically goes out and buys his own plane, teaches himself to fly … he earns his pilot’s license,” says Moore.
Roland Garros, in the dark suit, poses near the plane he flew across the Mediterranean in Tunisia in September 1913.
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STAFF/AFP via Getty Images/AFP via Getty Images
In September 1911, Garros broke an altitude record, soaring to nearly 13,000 feet (without the extra oxygen that modern planes have above 10,000 feet, Moore points out). He then set another record, breaking 19,000 feet in 1912.
At this time, Moore says, aviation was considered a daredevil sport, and successful pilots, especially in France, became celebrities. Garros’ dazzling performances in air shows and races earned him awards and notoriety.
“Aviation was made up of … people who liked to push the limits in sports and other ways, so they were using exhibitions, doing acrobatics, death-defying feats and races … and breaking records,” Moore explains.
Garros’ profile increased exponentially in 1913, when he became the first person to fly across the Mediterranean Sea.
He flew south from the French Riviera to Tunisia, landing after nearly eight hours with less than two gallons of gas left in his tank, according to a September 1913 edition of Foreign Aviation News.
“So confident was Garros in his Morane-Saulnier machine … that he did not deem it necessary to accept the Government’s offer to be consorted by a cruiser, but the French naval authorities nevertheless took the precaution to have a number of torpedo boats cruising along the line of flight,” the publication wrote.
Garros revolutionized aerial combat in multiple ways
When World War I broke out in 1914, Garros enlisted in the French army with an obvious skill set.
There were no independent air forces at the time, but pilots could join a designated air branch of the army. Even so, Moore says, the military viewed airplanes merely “as a way of being higher to look at things.”
Pilots were there for observation, not offense — at least at first.
“They would be flying over and they would see airplanes from the other side, doing their thing, and sometimes they’d wave at each other early on,” Moore says. “But as tends to happen, they decided that maybe they should try and stop the other guys from doing the same thing they’re doing, and so they started firing at each other.”
That was easier said than done, as early planes couldn’t accommodate anything larger than a pistol or a rifle. There was also the problem of propeller blades in front, obstructing a clear shot at German enemy aircraft.
Another Frenchman, engineer Raymond Saulnier, had recently patented a mechanism that would allow a machine gun to shoot between the spinning blades. Moore says it wasn’t adopted during the war because of significant flaws.
But Garros went to Saulnier — seemingly of his own accord — to inquire about using the technology in his own planes. Moore says there are varying claims about whether he tried it, but ultimately the two ended up with an alternative: screwing wedges onto Garros’ propeller blades to deflect bullets.

“And it works,” Moore says. “Garros shoots down his first German airplane on the first of April 1915 … within the next two-plus weeks he shoots down two more.”
Before the end of the month, however, Garros’ plane crashed — he said due to engine trouble — and he was taken captive by German forces. He spent three years in a prisoner-of-war camp, with his health and eyesight deteriorating.
Meanwhile, the Germans studied his wedge-workaround and developed what Moore describes as “a synchronizer that will allow a machine gun to shoot between the propeller blades, and that sort of changes aerial warfare from then on.”
Garros and another soldier eventually managed to escape, disguised as German officers. While the French government urged him to stay home as an advisor, he told The New York Times in March 1918 that he intended to get back to the front lines as soon as possible.
He said he was looking forward to confronting more enemy forces: “Remember, I have a big score against them to pay for the last three years.”
Garros’ legacy of persistence lives on
Crowds watch the action on Court Philippe-Chatrier at the Roland-Garros Complex in Paris over the weekend. Chatrier was a French tennis player and former president of the International Tennis Federation.
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Julien De Rosa/AFP via Getty Images
Garros was killed in action in October 1918, the day before his 30th birthday and a month before the war ended.
By that point, he had shot down a fourth German aircraft, so he was not technically a flying “ace,” which is defined as a pilot who shoots down five enemy aircraft or more. But the word, which caught on in French newspaper accounts of WWI, has come to have a much broader meaning.
Incidentally, “ace” is also used in tennis to describe a serve so good it goes untouched by its receiver.

While Garros didn’t have a direct connection to tennis, Moore says aviation was considered a sport — and he was one of its biggest faces at the time. That, plus historical context, may explain why his legacy is so closely tied to the clay-court tournament nearly a century later.
“WWI was very traumatic for the French. It was mostly on their soil that it was fought and a lot of Frenchmen died,” he says. “I think that in the postwar memory he was considered a national hero, for the fact that he had died for France, plus his pre-war fame.”
The tournament’s website sees a fitting connection too, in a quote attributed to Napoleon I that Garros inscribed on his planes’ propellers: “Victory belongs to the most persevering.”
That phrase, it says, “could also be applied to the winners of the Roland Garros tournament.” It runs through June 7.
Lifestyle
A Route 66 road trip is all about the people you’ll meet. Start with these legends.
Ian Bowen is manager of the “66 to Cali” shop/kiosk on the Santa Monica Pier. Many travelers go to the kiosk for the Route 66 “passports” and certificates of completion.
(Christopher Reynolds / Los Angeles Times)
Beyond the merry-go-round and before the Ferris wheel on Santa Monica Pier, Ian Bowen does business in a snug kiosk overstuffed with souvenirs, guidebooks and replica highway signs. The whole structure measures about 77 square feet. But the idea behind it sprawls for miles and keeps Bowen talking for hours on end: Route 66.
The 66 to Cali kiosk is owned by Dan Rice, who started the business in 2009 after years of travels on the Mother Road. But Bowen, 35, has been managing it for 10 years, making sales, offering advice and hearing travelers’ tales, which almost always come with surprises. He calls himself “a bona fide nerd about Route 66.”
“It took me six years to do the whole road and finish my last stretch in Arcadia, Oklahoma,” Bowen said between customers one recent night. Rather than cover more than 2,400 miles in a single trip, he has done what many American “roadies” do: biting off one chunk at a time. Before you know it, he said, “you become part of the community.”
That became obvious as Bowen flipped through the photo albums he keeps in the kiosk. There’s Harley Russell, ribald proprietor and performer at the Sandhills Curiosity Shop in Erick, Okla. There’s Fran Houser, the late, widely beloved proprietor of the Midpoint Cafe in Adrian, Texas. And there’s Bowen getting a haircut from Angel Delgadillo, the Seligman, Ariz., barber, now 99, who kicked off a resurgence of interest in Route 66 in 1987 with a call for historical recognition.
This is not the career Bowen planned for; he studied to be an industrial designer. But now that he’s in the business of celebrating Route 66, he sees it, and other highways like it, as a launching pad for independent businesses, a lifeline for small towns and an antidote to the isolation of contemporary society.
“The old roads aren’t just about nostalgia,” Bowen says on his website. “They’re about creativity, honest work, investing in ourselves and our communities, and the notion that effort is rewarded.”
For those considering a Route 66 trip, Bowen has advice of all kinds.
Want an old-school meal along the route in Santa Monica? Bowen will point you toward Bay Cities Italian Deli & Bakery, which opened in 1925.
A lunch spot near Elmer’s Bottle Tree Ranch in Oro Grande? Cross-Eyed Cow Pizza, said Bowen, is just down the road.
The backstory on Bobby Troup’s song “Route 66?” Bowen can tell you that Nat King Cole recorded it in early 1946 in a studio at 7000 Santa Monica Blvd. And that address, now occupied by the Jeffrey Deitch art gallery, is actually on Route 66.
Whatever your itinerary, Bowen urges a loose schedule, leaving plenty of room for discoveries and unplanned conversations. Otherwise, “it’s so easy to use up all your time and end up running behind,” he said.
One recent Friday, Leonidas Georgiou, 36, stepped up to the kiosk, brimming with enthusiasm.
Georgiou, who lives in Athens, only learned about Route 66 last year “from an influencer on Greek TikTok.” But once he heard about it, he acted fast. Georgiou plotted a U.S. trip, recruited his mom to ride shotgun and picked up a rented Mazda SUV in Chicago. They made the drive in 23 days, with detours to Las Vegas and Monument Valley and a stop at the Walter White house (from “Breaking Bad”) in Albuquerque.
The varying weather and landscape, Georgiou said, made it feel like a four-season trip. Several times, in cities where hotels seemed too pricey or too sketchy, he and his mom slept in their SUV. Before Bowen could speak up, Georgiou added that he’s a police officer in Athens, and that he chose their spots carefully. Georgiou’s mother, who didn’t speak much English, nodded in affirmation.
“Instead of spending $40 each and getting bedbugs, it’s better to sleep in the car,” Georgiou said. And in the larger picture, he said, it was important to give the trip all the time it needed.
“This is a lifetime journey,” Georgiou said.
Bowen nodded and smiled. Another 66 traveler, another set of surprises.
Lifestyle
It only takes 30 minutes to be a good mom : It’s Been a Minute
How much time should moms spend with their kids? What if it’s quality over quantity?
CEO and co-founder Emma Grede set social media on fire when she described herself as a “max three-hour mum” and said that she would rather focus on creating “high-impact, core memories” with her children. The founding partner of Kim Kardashian’s SKIMS also said that remote work is ‘career suicide’ for women. The idea that a working mother – even a CEO mom – would spend so little time with her kids was outrageous to some…but isn’t that the reality for most parents?
To get into all of this, Brittany is joined by Kathryn Jezer-Morton, writer of the Brooding column from The Cut, and Helena Andrews-Dyer, journalist and author, to unpack the ‘controversial’ notion of a mother not wanting to spend all her time with her kids.
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This episode was produced by Alexis Williams. The video was edited by Pablo Valdivia. It was edited by Nick Michael. Our Executive Producer is Barton Girdwood. Our VP of Programming is Yolanda Sangweni.
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