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All of your questions about the 'Wicked' movie, answered

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All of your questions about the 'Wicked' movie, answered

This article contains spoilers for the movie “Wicked.”

“To be continued.”

“Wicked” ends with these three words, leaving audiences to wait a year for resolution. And with a projected opening weekend domestic box office haul of $120 million, that adds up to quite a bit of patience.

Until then, there’s much to discuss about Universal’s ambitious adaptation of the blockbuster stage show, especially its more narratively daring moments — likely affecting both devout fan and casual “Wizard of Oz” aficionados. So whether you left the theater crying or confused, The Times is here to share some clarity on “Wicked.”

Director Jon M. Chu with Cynthia Erivo and Ariana Grande on the set of “Wicked.”

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(Giles Keyte / Universal Pictures)

Why is ‘Wicked’ split into two movies?

While not uncommon for fantasy flicks and sci-fi entries, it’s never been done before with the film adaptation of a stage musical. And this one in particular — based on Gregory Maguire’s 1995 novel “Wicked: The Life and Times of the Wicked Witch of the West,” which draws from Frank L. Baum’s 1900 fantasy novel “The Wonderful Wizard of Oz” and the 1939 film adaptation — “comes heaped high with a century’s worth of heritage, in the traditions of literature, screen and stage, plus the massive expectations that come with that,” wrote Katie Walsh in her review.

After months of detailed discussions between director Jon M. Chu, composer Stephen Schwartz and book writer Winnie Holzman about potentially sacrificing songs or subplots, “it became very clear that you cannot tell this story in one movie, and if you did, you’d have to literally transform it into something very different, and that’s not something I was interested in doing,” Chu told The Times.

While split at the stage show’s intermission point, “these are two movies with integrity, and they can stand on their own,” said Holzman. And according to producer Marc Platt, each act — and therefore, each film — has a point of view that’s distinct to the witches played by Cynthia Erivo and Ariana Grande.

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“‘Wicked’ is very much about the human experience — having preconceived notions, seeing the world a different way and changing your point of view,” he said. “Yes, this is the story of two girls, but the motor of the first film is really Elphaba’s journey of how she finds her voice to speak truth to power. And the second film is very much Glinda coming to see the world differently and changing in her way. Once we laid it out emotionally and narratively, and committed to it, things really fell in place.”

Ariana Grande plays Glinda in "Wicked."

Ariana Grande is Glinda in “Wicked.”

(Giles Keyte / Universal Pictures)

The movie’s running time is as long as the stage show but only tells half the story. What changes were made from stage to screen?

Recent musical adaptations have included rethought subplots or freshly written songs (sometimes resulting in misguided trims). But longtime “Wicked” fans will notice that the movie doesn’t drastically shoehorn any part of the narrative. Instead, it thoughtfully elaborates on the stage show, which opened on Broadway in 2003.

New scenes better cement some character dynamics, like when Elphaba and Glinda first meet in their shared dorm room. “When we were first writing the show, we wrote 30 versions of that scene before ‘What Is This Feeling?’” said Schwartz. “Ultimately, we just didn’t have the time.”

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The same is true when the two best friends first come face-to-face with the Wonderful Wizard of Oz (Jeff Goldblum). “There’s so much more time that he can take to delicately win them over and bring them into his world, and you get to see the girls get really won over by him,” said Holzman.

The introduction to Elphaba as a child, shunned by other kids and scorned by her father, was also abandoned in the making of the stage show, said Holzman: “To do that onstage is a whole thing, she’d be painted green for a one-minute-long part! But film is the perfect medium to finally do it.”

The movie also features a few slightly sharpened characters — a more independent Nessarose (Marissa Bode), a seemingly more maternal Madame Morrible (Michelle Yeoh) as “the mother Elphaba always wanted and never had,” said Platt — and a lot of new jokes, many of which were improvised by the cast. Plus, an extended “One Short Day” section explains the Wizard’s magical abilities, complete with cameos from original stars Idina Menzel and Kristin Chenoweth, as well as creators Schwartz and Holzman.

“It felt like we let the story and the characters breathe,” said Schwartz, who wrote a new song that didn’t make the cut. That discernment is thanks to Chu, said Platt: “Very frequently, Jon stopped us from changing things or turning them into something else. Because of his love for the material and his great sense of purpose and legacy, he protected us against ourselves.”

Cynthia Erivo and Ariana Grande with director Jon M. Chu on the set of "Wicked."

Cynthia Erivo and Ariana Grande with director Jon M. Chu on the set of “Wicked.”

(Giles Keyte / Universal Pictures)

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What did that silent ‘Dancing Through Life’ section mean?

One expanded sequence is “Dancing Through Life” — specifically, the section at the Ozdust Ballroom. Elphaba arrives alone, outfitted in the pointy black hat that Glinda has tricked her into wearing, and gets teased by all her classmates as she has been since arriving at Shiz University. Nevertheless, Elphaba begins to dance, executing every move as a woman boldly and unashamedly herself, even if it means remaining as lonely as ever.

Onstage, these dance moves are played for laughs, but “Cynthia came in and said, ‘I’m not a joke,’” Chu recalled of his early discussions with Erivo. “In the stage show, the audience has the same perspective as all the Ozians, but because of all the tools of cinema, we can flip it so the movie is from Elphaba’s perspective. Finding that really locked it in for me.”

Onscreen, the moment is deeply moving, with the sound of laughter muffled and the camera zooming in on Elphaba’s tears. Glinda, already feeling bad about the hat prank and ready to repay Elphaba for putting in a good word about her with the powerful Madame Morrible, joins her on the dance floor, echoing her movements with tears in her eyes as well. With this unspoken apology, the scene marks the beginning of their friendship.

“We’re in a massive musical, and Jon has the bravery to take sound out completely,” said cinematographer Alice Brooks of the scene. The heart of the movie is in these very static, still and silent moments, where these two women have nonverbal communication with each other.”

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It’s a moment that means a lot to Chu, who watched the stage show during its pre-Broadway run in San Francisco in 2003, and it’s safe to say it left a handprint on his heart. “I remember sitting in that theater and feeling like it was made for me,” he said. “Every word speaks to something so much deeper than just a song you hear and know the words to. Making this movie, I wanted people to feel what I felt in that seat.”

Cynthia Erivo plays Elphaba in "Wicked."

Cynthia Erivo plays Elphaba in “Wicked.”

(Giles Keyte / Universal Pictures)

What happened during that ‘Defying Gravity’ scene?

The entire film builds up to Elphaba’s signature song, which gloriously closes the first act onstage with the newly named “Wicked Witch” flying for the first time. “It doesn’t actually plug all the holes that you need, but we’re rooting for the whole movie for her to do it,” said Chu of the beloved number. “But when we storyboarded it, what we found was, she didn’t earn this flight.”

Therefore, “Defying Gravity” is presented in sections onscreen. After a fiery, action-packed sequence in which flying monkeys chase after Glinda and Elphaba, the two find themselves at a crossroads: Glinda wants to please Madame Morrible and the renowned Wizard — even if they do want to cast powerful spells to ostracize the talking animals of Oz — while Elphaba would rather flee the scene than align with these lying leaders.

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Elphaba asks her best friend to come with her, but Glinda silently decides not to, instead handing her a black cape to stay warm. Though they’re splitting up, there’s no bitterness between them: “I hope it brings you bliss, I really hope you get it and you don’t live to regret it,” they sing to each other. “I hope you’re happy in the end, I hope you’re happy, my friend.”

Bewitched broom in hand, Elphaba then tries to fly, but instead starts falling straight toward the ground. “When she jumps out that window, she thinks she’s ready, but she’s not,” explained Chu. “She doesn’t know why she’s doing it. Is this just because she’s angry? Or is it just for vengeance?”

Elphaba then sees the younger version of herself (Karis Musongole) in the Emerald City castle’s reflection. “I’ve known Jon for 25 years, and thematically, there’s always a connection with your younger self that he’s so passionate about,” said Brooks. “He desperately wants to know what your younger self would say to you.”

As they’re both in freefall, young Elphaba reaches out to the adult witch, who reaches back. “It’s that arc of connecting to this person you’ve always been, and discovering that the power and strength you’ve been looking for has always been inside of you,” said Brooks of the dialogue-free moment.

“She grabs that broomstick, flies up and sings, ‘It’s me’ because she’s realized she’s doing it to heal herself and save herself,” added Chu. Elphaba then delivers the final declaration of the song, not just to Glinda and all the Ozians who are now hunting her down, as done onstage, but also to Madame Morrible and the Wizard, who colluded to deceive her.

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Jeff Goldblum as The Wonderful Wizard of Oz and Michelle Yeoh as Madame Morrible in "Wicked."

L to R: Jeff Goldblum is The Wizard of Oz and Michelle Yeoh is Madam Morrible in WICKED, directed by Jon M. Chu

(Giles Keyte / Universal Pictures)

So what does the ending mean for the second ‘Wicked’ movie?

“Part 2” is scheduled for release Nov. 21, 2025, and a yearlong intermission between films is fitting — the second movie, like the second act of the stage show, will probably begin with a time jump. Consider how “Part 1’s” last scene checks on the other characters: Fiyero appearing concerned by Elphaba’s categorization as “evil” by authorities and leaping into action, or Madame Morrible finally embracing Glinda, who’s tried to be in the professor’s good graces but was constantly eclipsed by Elphaba’s potential.

One thing you can count on is for “Wicked” to confront the Dorothy of it all. (And her little dog too.)

For his part, Chu, who filmed both parts of “Wicked” concurrently, is deep in the process of finalizing the edit on “Part 2.” “Last year, I cut both so that I could finish movie one to understand it,” he said. “I let it go and, just recently, opened it up again.”

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By this time next year, fans will likely be able to refresh their memories with back-to-back screenings of both parts in theaters. “I have done it,” said Chu of his own “Wicked” marathon. “It is so fun, it is great. I’m excited for everyone to do it.”

Movie Reviews

Margaret Pomeranz: The 10 films you should watch, but probably haven’t

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Margaret Pomeranz: The 10 films you should watch, but probably haven’t

MP: Well, I don’t think we truly gelled for about five years because I was so nervous, and it took me time to be able to relax in front of camera.

Fitz: So you became an iconic duo, just like Roy and HG. In their case, they never socialised much off-camera so as to keep their on-air stuff fresh. Did you spend much time with David Stratton when the cameras weren’t rolling?

MP: We did, but never excessively, apart from when we went to things like the Cannes and Venice film festivals, when we would certainly see a great deal of one another. Back in Australia, we saw a bit of each other until he moved up to the Blue Mountains, which I was really shitty about, actually …

Fitz: And how do you judge the current state of the movie business globally and in Australia?

MP: Well, I think the Australian film industry is really healthy. It’s almost like it’s got the confidence in itself. Globally, on the one hand, I’m sick of those Marvel Comics being translated to the screen, but on the other hand, you can get really good ones, like the one that Taika Waititi directed, Thor: Ragnarok. That was terrific. So you can’t be narrow-minded about such films. Some are extremely good.

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Jeff Bridges in Peter Weir’s brilliant Fearless.Credit: Warner Bros

Fitz: And where are your professional energies going right now?

MP: Nowhere! I am trying to get out of stuff, not into stuff.

Fitz: Two more quick questions, then we can rip in. I read a blurry report that you might have had a cameo role in Priscilla, Queen of the Desert. Is that correct?

MP: Yes, but blink and you’ll miss me, right? I had known the director, Stephan Elliott, for some time, and he said, would I play a part in his film? And I said, “All right, as long as I’m not playing anybody’s mother”. Not long afterwards, I was in Venice at the film festival, and a fax arrived for me, saying he wanted me in Priscilla, indeed playing someone’s mother, but … “You’re playing Guy Pearce’s mother”. So I said, “Oh, all right!”

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Fitz: Meantime, I loved your review on Charlie Pickering’s The Weekly on ABC of Married at First Sight where you said, “It’s a groundbreaking social experiment in which mentally fragile halfwits marry toxic fame tarts”. Is there anything you’d like to add to that? Or is that about it?

MP: [Laughs.] No, that’s about it.

Fitz: OK, let’s get to the nub of it. Can you please gimme the 10 films few of us have seen yet, but bloody well should?

Dannielle Hall and Damian Pitt in <i>Beneath Clouds</i>.

Dannielle Hall and Damian Pitt in Beneath Clouds.Credit: © Bunya Productions

MP: Well, my first one is the Australian film Beneath Clouds (2002). That was Ivan Sen’s debut feature about two Indigenous kids, played by Damian Pitt and Dannielle Hall, who accidentally join up as they head for various reasons to Sydney from country NSW. Sen had made a series of really fantastic shorts when he was at the film school, and once he was out he made this. It looks fabulous. It’s heartrendingly great, but very little seen. I’m always moved by the final image in a film, and in this one, it’s just heartbreakingly good. Have you seen it?

Fitz: No, never heard of it, but I will see it soon! Next?

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MP: OK, going down the list, I loved Locke (2013) by Stephen Knight. Tom Hardy gives an outstanding performance in this film in which he is the only presence on screen. He plays a man driving to a construction site who takes 38 phone calls from various people as his life falls apart.

Fitz: Hang on, just one actor? So when the screen credits roll for actors, there’s one person?

MP: Yes, apart from voice actors.

Fitz: That sounds like that famous first film by Steven Spielberg, Duel, with the menacing truck being the key presence monstering the poor bloke in front. Go on, next?

MP: Number three is Fearless (1993), by Peter Weir, starring Jeff Bridges and Rosie Perez as survivors of a plane crash who each experience the impact of the aftermath. Have you seen that?

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The 1997 film <i>Gattaca</i> imagines a future class divide between the enhanced (as played by Uma Thurman) and the unenhanced.

The 1997 film Gattaca imagines a future class divide between the enhanced (as played by Uma Thurman) and the unenhanced.Credit: Getty Images

Fitz: No! Look, if it’s not Shawshank Redemption or the like, you may presume I haven’t seen it, but want to. I want you to educate me and mine on the finer things in films so we can say to our friends, “I can’t believe you haven’t seen those wonderful films, Beneath Clouds, Locke and Fearless! What kind of bogan ignoramus are you?”

MP: [Small groan.] Number four is District 9 (2009). This totally original, low-budget science fiction film from South African writer/director Neill Blomkamp has it all – a wild imagination, drama, pathos, compassion, with a few laughs thrown in, as a man organising the relocation of a camp of segregated aliens becomes one of them.

Fitz: You see, Margaret? Don’t despair, I’ve heard of it!

MP: So is that all right?

Fitz: Yes, please go on.

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MP: I’ve chosen Nashville (1975). A gigantic tapestry of music, betrayal and politics set in the country music capital of the world and is the work of director Robert Altman. It has a multi-character cast and was the film that excited me most when I first saw it. It is still my favourite film of all time. I fell in love with Robert Altman when I saw it in Sydney, even though it was on screens for just a week, and it was gone. I dragged people to it, and then it disappeared.

Fitz: If you say it is your favourite of all time, that is some recommendation. Next, please?

MP: Gattaca (1997). This debut science fiction film from New Zealand born writer/director Andrew Niccol explores the ethics of genetic engineering. Niccol wrote The Truman Show, but when he went to Hollywood, they wouldn’t let him direct it and gave him Gattaca to direct instead. It stars Ethan Hawke and Uma Thurman and is riveting.

<i>Lust, Caution</i>, directed by Ang Lee, is set in China during the Japanese occupation.

Lust, Caution, directed by Ang Lee, is set in China during the Japanese occupation. Credit:

Fitz: Not that you care, but I broadly hate sci-fi. Still, I will give it a go.

MP: The Hill (1965) is a gruelling portrayal of men struggling to survive a military prison camp in North Africa during World War II, and it stars Sean Connery in one of his best performances. I don’t like prison movies much, but this one has stayed with me.

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Fitz: I like Shawsha … actually, never mind. Does The Hill have a happy ending? You’ll despair to hear, Marge, my tastes are so plebeian: I genuinely like films where the hero and the heroine go through lots of struggles and get to kiss in the final frame – with the exception of Brokeback Mountain, where it was the two heroes.

MP: [Small pause.] I absolutely adored Brokeback Mountain. I saw that in Venice, and when everybody else was rushing off to the next screening, I just stayed sitting there alone, still absorbing it, it was so wonderful. But, moving on. I love tough films. And the one that I love most is The Lives of Others (2006), the debut film from German writer/director Florian Henckel von Donnersmarck about the impact that Stasi agents, East Germany’s secret police, have on a group of artists and intellectuals. A really powerful cinema experience.

Fitz: Next?

MP: Lust, Caution (2007). Ang Lee’s beautiful, emotionally powerful film is set in China during the Japanese occupation. It’s about a young student’s relationship with a high-ranking collaborator despite the fact that she’s part of a group that aims to assassinate him. And the next one after that is a soft one for you, Peter. I’ve chosen Chef (2014), written, directed by and starring Jon Favreau. It’s the story of a celebrity chef in an upmarket restaurant who loses his temper as he’s not prepared to conform. So he starts up a food truck with the help of his son and estranged wife. And you’ll be thrilled to hear, Peter, this one has a happy ending.

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Fitz: Excellent! And that’s our 10. So the last thing is this. We’ve talked about films that you know are great, that should be more widely celebrated. What about films where everybody loves them except you? I hate to say it, but the best example for me is the one you’re in: Priscilla, Queen of the Desert. Yes, all the actors are great, and Hugo’s a personal friend. But I just never understood the level of acclaim it received.

MP: [Laughing.] Of course it was the one I was in! But, yes, I don’t always like what everybody else likes. I don’t necessarily like what David Stratton likes. I actually talked to him this morning about the list I just gave you, and I think he approves of just about all the ones on my list, but not all. Generally, I think that within seconds of a film opening, you know whether you’re in good hands with a director or not, and it’s really weird that some films just scream: “I am no good!” from the very beginning.

Fitz: And the blockbuster that you detest?

MP: A really popular film that everyone else loved was the remake of The Texas Chainsaw Massacre. It’s only one of the two films I’ve ever walked out of.

Fitz: And what is the other, please?

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MP: I will tell you, but it’s not for publication. [We go into the Cone of Silence.]

Fitz: Oh! Oh, I see … Thank you, indeed. I, and my readers, shall report back before Chrissie on what we think of your list. In the meantime, we are in your debt. At least we hope so.

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Movie Reviews

Movie review: Wicked – Baltimore Magazine

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Movie review: Wicked – Baltimore Magazine

There’s been a curious trend in the promotion of movie musicals lately. The trailers and commercials have obscured the fact that they are musicals. This was true of the Mean Girls trailer, which made the film seem like a highly redundant note-for-note remake of the Lindsay Lohan original. And it was also true of Timothée Chalamet’s Wonka, a particularly baffling choice since the original was itself a musical. Both those films did well at the box office but I would argue this was in spite of, not because of the sneaky marketing strategy.

Musicals are having a moment. It’s an extension of fan culture—that is to say, culture—with musical theater nerds loudly and proudly staking their claim among the other fandoms on social media. When I went to see The Outsiders on Broadway, there was a large group of teenage girls screaming for Ponyboy and cheering in anticipatory excitement before all the big numbers. When I caught a preview of The Great Gatsby, the screams were so loud you would think star Jeremy Jordan was Harry Styles.

Certainly among the most enduringly popular musicals is Wicked, the girl-power reimagining of The Wizard of Oz, which made co-stars Idina Menzel and Kristin Chenoweth stars—or at the very least, god tier among musical theater nerds.

Happily, Universal Pictures didn’t try to obscure the fact that Wicked is a musical, but that’s not to say the production was without controversy. Everyone agreed that Cynthia Erivo, who won the Tony for The Color Purple and was Oscar nominated for her turn as Harriet Tubman in Harriet, was perfect for the part of misunderstood witch Elphaba, but mega pop star Ariana Grande as Glinda? When there were deserving musical theater professionals out there in need of a big break? Additionally, the promotion was not above its own bait and switch. Never seen in the commercials and trailer is the fact that the nearly three hour film is merely part one. Part two is due next year.

Let’s get those “controversies” out of the way first. Ariana Grande is a marvelous Glinda—pampered, entitled, but secretly kind—like Alicia Silverstone in Clueless if she had pipes for days. Anyone who has seen Grande on Saturday Night Live already knew she was funny—and here, her stellar comic timing is aided by her adoring sidekicks played with gleeful “you can’t sit here” bitchiness by Bowen Yang and Bronwyn James. As for the film being a part one? I wouldn’t fret it. It ends perfectly. You feel satisfied with what you just saw, while eagerly anticipating the next installment.

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So yeah, Wicked is good. Almost great, although I couldn’t quite warm up to all the CGI sets and backdrops. I understand that director Jon M. Chu worked hard to create a built environment, even going so far as to plant 9 million tulips to recreate Emerald City (reader: I thought they were fake). But, despite his best efforts, the film still has that slightly glossy, uncanny feeling of AI. Give me cheesy, hand-built sets any day.

Still there’s a lot to recommend here, as the film is filled with wit and cleverness and verve. Erivo, as expected, makes for a heartbreakingly vulnerable, yet fierce Elphaba, and her belting out of “Defying Gravity” feels like cinematic catharsis at its finest. There are also excellent supporting turns, including Jonathan Bailey as the dashing but romantically conflicted Fiyero; Michelle Yeoh as the glamorous professor of the dark arts, Madame Morrible; the voice of Peter Dinklage as the wise and kindly goat professor, Dr. Dillamond; and Jeff Goldblum as the Wizard. (I mean, of course, Jeff Goldblum is the Wizard of Oz. It’s casting as inevitable as it is perfect.) Also, look out for a few smartly placed cameos. (Can you say: Adele Dazeem?)

Directed and performed with flair and obvious affection for the source material, Wicked is a wickedly good time at the movies. And yes, I imagine it’s going to be popular, as I’m already thinking of shelling out 15 bucks to see it again.

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Ice-T proves he's still 'Merciless' on Body Count's latest attack of gory hip-hop metal with a message

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Ice-T proves he's still 'Merciless' on Body Count's latest attack of gory hip-hop metal with a message

“You don’t know me, fool / You disown me, cool,” Ice-T snarls in the 1988 hip-hop gang treatise “Colors.” The Afrika Islam-produced cut, the title track from the film of the same name, boosted the Jersey-born, then-L.A.-dweller out of the underground, kick-starting a multifaceted career that today finds Ice sitting on a curved couch in the bright open kitchen/family room of his Edgewater, N.J., home, daughter Chanel’s mostly pink toys carefully stacked nearby.

These days, fans of his music are used to seeing the rapper-turned-actor in mainstream commercials that would’ve been too scared to cast him back in the day. O.G. Ice-T wouldn’t have been caught dead shilling for Cheerios (Ice teaches yoga); Tide (Ice “cold calls” chef Gordon Ramsay); or GEICO (Ice at a lemonade stand). But if the leap from gangster to gladhander wasn’t part of a master plan, it’s not a far stretch.

“First, people don’t know who you are,” he explains of his early career. “The neighborhood knows, but the people don’t. So you got to make them understand that you’re a serious person. Before we can have fun, you have to understand that I’m not all fun, right? So now people meet me. They go, ‘you’re nice.’ I’m like, ‘Well, you’re not my enemy. There’s another Ice. You don’t want to meet him.’ ”

Today’s Ice-T — in the month prior to the U.S. election and before the death of one-time collaborator Quincy Jones — speaks eloquently on both those subjects. As well as on his Harley-Davidson-riding father-in-law, meeting Presidents Clinton (“That motherf— was charming as f—”) and Trump (pre-first presidency, “his character alone is piece of s— to me”), and the Constitution, before joyfully breaking into the chorus of the New Radicals song he hopes to cover, “we only get what we give.”

It’s a day off from the 66-year-old’s role as NYPD detective/sergeant Odafin Tutuola on NBC’s “Law & Order: Special Victims Unit,” a role he’s played for 24 years. The irony of the “Cop Killer” — the song by his heavy metal band Body Count that resulted in a parting of ways with Warner Bros. Records — playing a cop on TV is lost on no one.

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“It’s like they think it’s a snuff record something. Like they really believed I was telling people to go kill cops, which I wasn’t,” Ice-T says, not for the first time since the track’s 1992 release. “I was acting a character out. But f— it, I call that a badge of honor. Like the new ‘Merciless’ album cover, Japan says they don’t want it.” (The band logo is in blue and red; giving both Crips and Bloods and Democratic and Republican connotations; Ice is in a blue surgical cap, blood-covered and holding a bone saw in front of a blond man in a Ku Klux Klan robe tied to a chair.)

The 12-track record is Body Count’s eighth album, with Ice and Crenshaw high school pal guitarist Ernie C (Cunnigan) and turntablist/keyboard player Sean E Sean its original members. Bassist Vincent Price, drummer Ill Will and rhythm guitarist Juan of the Dead round out the lineup with Ice’s son, Little Ice, his middle child, the band’s hype man and backing vocalist since 2016.

“Merciless,” like its predecessors, is full of sound and fury, signifying much that Ice finds wrong with the world, his evenhanded, intelligent opinions writ loudly, if graphically. The record was influenced by the COVID pandemic, but not in the way one might imagine.

“The whole ‘Merciless’ album is based on my love of horror movies. The last four albums have been the rebirth of Body Count with Will Putney producing. We went from ‘Manslaughter’ to ‘Blood Lust’ to ‘Carnivore,’ ” Ice says. “So this is ‘Merciless,’ this is all the saga. When ‘Carnivore’ hit last year, we did well, we won the Grammy. Everything’s hot. The label goes, ‘OK, give me another album.’ ”

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Ice’s voice rises. “We just s— an album out!’ I’m like, ‘How the f— imma do another?’ We never got to perform because the album dropped the day COVID hit.” Ice, who takes riffs and songs written by his band and rearranges them to his liking before coming up with lyrics, adds, “People don’t understand that when you make a record, you might put on 12,13, songs, but you made 27 that didn’t make it because they weren’t good enough. You don’t want to use them for the next album. You have to start from scratch.”

With a shuttered New York City across the Hudson River, Ice, wife Coco (née Austin) and daughter Chanel spent COVID lockdown in Jersey. “I was watching horror movies, serial killers, all this s—. So before you know it, there’s a song called ‘The Purge.’ There’s a song called ‘Psychopath.’ I’m looking at this new election coming. I’m like, ‘these motherf—s are gang banging.’ All these different topics are coming to my head, and we make the next record.”

While both metal and hip-hop audiences are quick to call out posers, Ice-T comes by his rock ‘n’ roll bona fides thanks to his teens in L.A., the city he moved to after both his parents passed away. “I had a cousin when I lived in L.A. who thought he was Jimi Hendrix and would keep the radio on KMET and KLOS. I heard everything from Pink Floyd to J. Geils Band to Boston to ELO to Mott the Hoople to Edgar Winter,” he recalls. “I started to get into groups like Blue Oyster Cult, Deep Purple and of course, Sabbath. I started to like the darker stuff, right?”

While there remains precious few Black rock and metal bands, Ice-T says the initial goal with Body Count was “to find an audience to play for so Ernie could play his guitar.” Ernie C and late drummer Beatmaster V began pro careers on Ice-T’s 1987 debut studio album for Sire, “Rhyme Pays.” “We used the Sabbath hook from ‘War Pigs,’ but it was live drums, Beatmaster V. Then I did “The Girl Tried to Kill Me” (1989). Ernie played on that.” At the time, hip-hop was very sample-based. But a creative spark was lighted when Ice-T went on tour with Public Enemy. He saw “kids moshing off of ‘Bring the Noise’ and ‘[Welcome to the] Terrordome.’

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“I’m like, ‘We’re gonna take the punk sensibility of Suicidal [Tendencies],’ who already had a gangbanger look,” says Ice-T, excited at the memory. “I said, ‘We’re gonna take the speed of Slayer and the impending doom of Black Sabbath, mash that together, and I’m gonna sing about the same s— that I sing about in rap. But I’m not gonna rap it. Imma bark it. I call it ‘barking’ because I was listening to New York hardcore, like Madball and groups like that. They’re not singing. I can’t sing like Journey, but yeah, this vocal delivery isn’t out of my range.’ So I said, ‘Let’s go.’ ”

More than 30 years later, Body Count has not run out of heavy riffing ideas or equally weighty lyrical topics. The new song “Do or Die” isn’t from his horror movie binge; it’s the frontman’s view on guns. Ice-T isn’t necessarily pro-gun, rather, the former Army infantryman clarifies: “I walk into a room, and nobody’s got a gun, OK. But if I walk in the room and somebody’s got a gun, I want a gun. I don’t want to be the guy with the butter knife.”

Thanks to his common sense approach to life, people tell Ice-T he should be in politics. The one-time gangster’s retort? “I got out of crime. I’m on a soapbox. I can say whatever the f— I want. I’ve pretty much said everything I wanted to say. I think in my history, you can look at Ice-T and say, ‘Ice-T has done some crazy s—.’ But I doubt if you find something I done stupid.”

The father of three and husband of 22 years’ time denies having any secrets. “I never been to no Diddy parties; not my scene. Honestly, I come from so much drama and chaos that when I finally got a chance to get out of it… I don’t jaywalk in New York. I don’t break the law. I don’t do that,” he adds, “because I used to do it every day. I was deep in, and I could have caught a life sentence. I’ve been so blessed and so lucky. if I did anything illegal, if I lied to somebody, if I did something crazy, I think I’d die. I think I would suffer Instant Karma.”

Elder statesman Ice-T is also OK that he’s no longer speaking to the youth. “You have to embrace your evolution and understand that the torch has to be passed. Like Chuck D told me, ‘At this point, if you’re not having fun, you did all this for nothing.’ I think what we did,” he concludes, “was the heavy lifting. We did enough to change the world. To me, Barack Obama was a hip-hop president. He was the president of the kids who voted for him, that grew up with us. Those white kids didn’t exist before hip-hop, you know? We created a surge of young white youth who weren’t racist.”

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And while he’s happy to “talk s—” to his longtime fans via “Merciless,” he says, “we did our part. It’s now time for young kids to do their part. We need a new young PE. A new young Ice-T. Because now, I’m sorry, but I’m the old guy.” He’s glad to still hold — and step over — the line, while understanding he’s not influencing young people “the way a 21-year-old or youngster would if he was saying it. It hits them harder because it’s their peers.”

That’s not to say a Body Count show is anything short of raucous or provocative, Ice-T bringing the noise and intensity with his equally pumped high school OGs in the band. “When I play a song, the audience goes back to the day they first heard that song. And then for me to perform it correctly, I have to go back to that moment when I wrote ‘Colors,’ ” he says. “So now I’m a 16-year-old dude on a stage, gangbanging, because to perform it correctly, I have to get into that place. So music is the fountain of youth.”

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