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Three months ago they unionized. Now a strike by Amazon contract drivers is heating up

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Three months ago they unionized. Now a strike by Amazon contract drivers is heating up

Two days after Amazon Prime Day, a group of over 60 Palmdale Amazon contract drivers, backed by Teamsters and community members, picketed outside Amazon’s ONT 5 warehouse, blocking trucks from entering or leaving the San Bernardino facility.

They waved signs demanding that Amazon recognize their contract, which stipulates a $30-per-hour wage by September, and safe working conditions, as they marched across the street in 95-degree heat.

The July 13 picket was one of 10 that these drivers have organized at Amazon warehouses in Michigan, Georgia and other states since they went on strike last month. Though they made deliveries for Amazon, they worked for Palmdale-based Battle-Tested Strategies, which since 2019 has been one of many small companies that Amazon contracts with to run the retailing giant’s short-distance deliveries under its Delivery Service Partner program.

Amazon canceled its contract with BTS in June, citing “poor performance.” Since then, the Palmdale contract drivers, who unionized with the Teamsters last April, have engaged in an unfair labor practice strike, demanding that Amazon recognize and bargain with their unit.

Cecilia Ozier is one of the contract drivers who formerly made deliveries for Amazon through BTS from DAX8, Amazon’s Palmdale facility. She said BTS employees unionized in hopes of getting higher wages and better working conditions, but the company refused to meet with the drivers’ union.

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“Some vans really don’t have AC and we tell them and they don’t do anything about it. Sliding doors don’t open, which are used to get the packages in and out,” said Ozier, who led Thursday’s picket and also has traveled to pickets in New Jersey, Connecticut and Massachusetts. “ It’s too hot out there. And we work hard for $19.75. Who’s that going to help? I live paycheck to paycheck.”

The level of responsibility that Amazon has for the drivers and their well-being is disputed by the shipping giant. Amazon says that the subcontracted drivers are not Amazon employees, and has not agreed to bargain with their union. In a statement to The Times, Amazon spokesperson Eileen Hards said that at Amazon, vehicles without properly functioning air conditioning are immediately removed from service and that its delivery partners decide on break times and pay rates.

“The Teamsters are being intentionally misleading and continue to promote a false narrative. Their contract is with Battle Tested Strategies, not Amazon,” Hards stated. “The facts remain that months ago, Amazon terminated its contract with Battle Tested Strategies effective June 24. That company and their employees no longer deliver Amazon packages.”

The dispute leading up to the strike began in late April, when 84 Palmdale contract drivers for Amazon joined Teamsters Local 365, settling a tentative contract with BTS, which agreed to voluntarily recognize the union. At the time, BTS owner Johnathon Ervin told Bloomberg News that he hoped to include Amazon in the bargaining process to further enhance the morale and welfare of the drivers.

However, on April 14, weeks before the union’s public announcement, Amazon told Ervin that it would terminate its contract with BTS on June 24, months before it was originally set to expire in October. Hards said that Amazon canceled the contract due to six breaches of contract including failing to pay its insurance providers. In mid-June, Ervin told Wired that he was contesting the breaches and that he resolved three of the breaches last year, although they remained on BTS’ record. He claimed that Amazon ended the contract because he had voiced concerns about his employees’ working conditions.

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The Teamsters allege that Amazon terminated BTS’ contract in retaliation for the drivers unionizing and have filed a complaint against Amazon with the National Labor Relations Board.

The director of the Teamsters’ Amazon division, Randy Korgan, said that the level of control Amazon had over the drivers’ working conditions, which included dictating routes and performance expectations, meant the retail giant was acting as a joint employer with BTS and therefore was ignoring its responsibility to bargain with the drivers.

“In my 30 years I’ve never seen a more restrictive relationship between a company and its subcontracting agency,” Korgan said. “We’re trying to show Amazon that they need to rewrite their operations because what they’re doing is illegal. Their business model has been misleading. We didn’t rewrite the facts. We’re taking what Amazon did and holding them accountable.”

United Parcel Service drivers, who are also represented by the Teamsters and do some deliveries for Amazon, reached a tentative contract with UPS this Wednesday, averting a potential national strike. The union said the new UPS contract will set “a new standard in the labor movement.”

Amazon contract drivers and allies picket outside of Amazon’s San Bernardino warehouse on July 13.

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(Mariana Duran/Los Angeles Times)

As the popularity of online shopping has grown, so has the logistics industry’s presence in Southern California. Over 1,100 warehouses have been constructed in the area since 2010, the Guardian reported in December. Amazon, which has invested hundreds of millions of dollars in the region, opened a regional air hub in San Bernardino in 2021, the seventh Amazon air site in California, and has plans to finish construction of its largest fulfillment center in Ontario in 2024. It also operates a number of logistics centers across the region.

Recent years have also seen more union drives at Amazon warehouses in California and other states, with mixed results. Last April, workers at an Amazon warehouse in Staten Island, N.Y., voted to unionize with the grassroots Amazon Labor Union, becoming Amazon workers’ first U.S. union. The company continues to challenge the results. This month, the NLRB ordered Amazon to bargain in good faith with those employees, finding merit to a series of complaints that alleged Amazon had violated labor laws by refusing to come to the bargaining table.

In Riverside County, a group of Amazon warehouse workers in Moreno Valley filed a petition to hold a union election last October but withdrew it weeks later after Amazon challenged whether the organizers had gathered enough signatures. Amazon workers in Bessemer, Ala., held a second union vote in 2022, after losing the first in 2021, but with a narrow vote difference, objections and contested ballots on both sides, the results are still too close to call. Last month, the NLRB ordered a hearing for September to go over these contested votes and allegations of unfair labor practices.

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The Palmdale contract drivers are not the first employees of an Amazon delivery partner to unionize. In 2017, drivers working for Silverstar Delivery in Brownstown, Mich., voted to join the Teamsters. But weeks later, some drivers reported they were fired for joining the union, and a shop steward told BuzzFeed News that Silverstar had shut down its Michigan location months after. Although the Teamsters named Amazon in a labor complaint related to the matter, according to Buzzfeed News, Amazon told the NLRB it was a contractor, and not the drivers’ employer.

The model with which large employers like Amazon subcontract work to other companies is becoming increasingly common, said Ellen Reese, chair of the labor studies program at UC Riverside, who studies warehouse and labor economics in the Inland Empire. Under this structure, Reese said, it becomes more difficult for workers to exercise their rights and bargain collectively with their employers.

“I think the case involving the drivers in Palmdale is really important,” Reese said. “This campaign, if it’s successful, will set a precedent that employers can’t just contract away the rights of their workers and that they still have responsibilities to provide good terms of employment to people that help their businesses to run.”

Drivers first staged a walkout from the DAX8 Palmdale facility on June 15, demanding that Amazon recognize and bargain with the Teamsters union over pay and working conditions. They walked out again on June 24, the day their contract would be terminated, starting the ongoing strike.

“After unionizing, we feel like we’ve got more power on our hands to be able to not just defend ourselves, but to defend even the little people out there that don’t have a voice or are too scared to stand up for what’s right,” said Heath Lopez, who worked as a delivery driver at Amazon’s Palmdale facility the past three years.

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In the weeks since, the strike extended to other parts of California and other states. Drivers have also continued to picket at the DAX8 Palmdale facility six or seven days a week, said Teamsters Communications Director Alex Moore.

Workers striking at Amazon’s DDT6 hub in Pontiac, Mich., invited delivery drivers to join their picket line so they would stand in solidarity with one another, said Alicia Ozier, an employee and union organizer at the facility. Much like the Palmdale drivers, Ozier said, Pontiac workers struck July 14 for increased safety protections, stricter regulations for dealing with extreme heat and higher pay. She said that prior to the strike, she experienced retaliation for her organizing efforts.

“We’re all employees of Amazon. We’re all getting the same unfair, unjust treatment,” she said.

Amazon did not respond to questions about the strike at its Pontiac facility. Hards said the company doesn’t retaliate for union organizing.

Several community groups and local unions are supporting the Palmdale drivers. During the San Bernardino picket on July 13, Tania González, an Inland Empire activist with the People’s Collective for Environmental Justice, noted the intersections between environmental and labor justice in her community, where warehouse-related pollution has become a growing concern for residents.

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“These workers did begin their fight because of the heat issues with the facilities,” González said. “Climate change is getting worse. Their conditions within their trucks and the facilities are not getting any better with climate change. So it’s important for us to support them.”

Contract drivers picket at Amazon's San Bernardino warehouses.

Heat, and higher pay, have been at the forefront of striking Amazon drivers’ demands.

(Mariana Duran/Los Angeles Times)

Strengthening heat protection measures has been at the center of some Amazon workers’ unionizing efforts. Workers in Pontiac who walked out earlier this month said Amazon’s industrial fans and temperature control systems weren’t sufficient to combat hot conditions.

Similarly, last summer, workers in San Bernardino’s Amazon Air hub walked off the job, demanding higher pay and relief from what they said were unsafe work conditions caused by extreme heat. A few of the Amazon Air workers joined drivers’ pickets in San Bernardino and Palmdale this July. So far this month, the average daily temperature in Palmdale has ranged from 69 to 110 degrees, and from 61 to 102 degrees in San Bernardino.

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During previous summers when he worked as a Palmdale Amazon contract driver, Lieb said conditions in his van were often worse during the week around Amazon’s Prime Day, as he was often expected to deliver more packages in the same amount of time.

“Prime week should never be in the peak season of the heat,” Lieb said.

Hards said Amazon has a robust heat mitigation plan and that the company’s heat-related safety protocols often exceed industry standards and federal guidance. She said professionals monitor these systems and can take extra steps if needed.

“The health and safety of our employees is always our top priority,” she said.

Amazon, Hards said, is committed to the “safety of drivers and the communities where they deliver,” was investing in supplies to help the drivers stay cool and hydrated and strongly encouraged drivers affected by the heat to return to the station.

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Korgan said he expected the Palmdale drivers’ pickets to keep growing to include more warehouse workers and community members.

“Amazon wants to create a narrative that this is a futile process, that these are outsiders,” Korgan said. “These are working people fighting to have middle class jobs.”

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Business

Elon Musk, Mark Zuckerberg and Jeff Bezos to Attend Trump’s Inauguration

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Elon Musk, Mark Zuckerberg and Jeff Bezos to Attend Trump’s Inauguration

Corporate America had already raced to donate big sums to Donald Trump’s record-breaking inaugural fund. Now some of its leaders appear eager to jockey for prominent positions at the inauguration next week.

It’s a new reminder that for some of the nation’s biggest businesses, forging close ties to a president-elect who is promising hard-hitting policies like tariffs is a priority this time around.

Jeff Bezos and Mark Zuckerberg are expected to be on the inauguration dais, according to NBC News, alongside Elon Musk and several cabinet picks.

The presence of Musk isn’t a surprise, given the Tesla chief’s significant support of and huge influence over Trump. But the other tech moguls have only more recently been seen as supporters of the administration. (Indeed, Bezos frequently sparred with Trump during his first presidential term.)

It’s the latest effort by Bezos and Zuckerberg to burnish their Trump credentials. At the DealBook Summit in December, Bezos — whose Amazon has faced scrutiny under the Biden administration and whose Blue Origin is hoping to win government rocket contracts — said that he was “very hopeful” about Trump’s efforts to reduce regulation.

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And Zuckerberg recently announced significant changes to Meta’s content moderation policy, including relaxing restrictions on speech seen as protecting groups including L.G.B.T.Q. people that won praise from Trump and other conservatives. On the inauguration front, Zuckerberg is also co-hosting a reception alongside the longtime Trump backers Miriam Adelson, Tilman Fertitta and Todd Ricketts.

Both tech moguls have visited Mar-a-Lago since the election, with Zuckerberg having done so more than once.

Coca-Cola took a different tack. The drinks giant’s C.E.O., James Quincey, gave Trump what an aide called the “first ever Presidential Commemorative Inaugural Diet Coke bottle.”

More broadly, business leaders want a piece of the inauguration action. The Times previously reported that the Trump inaugural fund had surpassed $170 million, a record, and that even major donors have been wait-listed for events.

Others are throwing unofficial events around Washington, including an “Inaugural Crypto Ball” that will feature Snoop Dogg, with tickets starting at $5,000, The Wall Street Journal reports.

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It’s a reminder that C.E.O.s are reading the room, and preparing their companies for a president who has proposed creating an “External Revenue Service” to oversee what he has promised will be wide-ranging tariffs.

David Urban, a longtime Trump adviser who’s hosting a pre-inauguration event, told The Journal, “This is the world order, and if we’re going to succeed, we need to get with the world order.”

  • In other Trump news: The president-elect is expected to appear via videoconference at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, which starts on Inauguration Day, according to Semafor.

Investors brace for the latest inflation data. The Consumer Price Index report, due out at 8:30 a.m. Eastern, is expected to show that inflation ticked up last month, most likely because of climbing food and fuel costs. Global bond markets have been rattled as slow progress on slowing inflation has prompted the Fed to slash its forecast for interest rate cuts.

More Trump cabinet picks will appear before the Senate on Wednesday. Senator Marco Rubio of Florida, the choice for secretary of state, is expected to field questions about his views on the Middle East, Ukraine and China, but is expected to be confirmed. Russell Vought, the pick to run the Office of Management and Budget, will most likely be asked about his advocacy for drastically shrinking the federal government, a key Trump objective. And Sean Duffy, the Fox Business host chosen to lead the Transportation Department, will probably face questions on how he would oversee matters including aviation safety and autonomous vehicles, the latter of which is a priority for Elon Musk.

Meta plans to lay off another 5 percent of its employees. Mark Zuckerberg, the tech giant’s C.E.O., told staff members to prepare for “extensive performance-based cuts” as the company braces for “an intense year.” The social media giant faces intense competition in the race to commercialize artificial intelligence.

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A new bill would give TikTok a reprieve from a ban in the United States. Senator Ed Markey, Democrat of Massachusetts, said he planned to introduce the Extend the TikTok Deadline Act, which would give the video platform 270 additional days to be divested from its Chinese parent, ByteDance before being blacklisted. It’s the latest effort to buy TikTok time, as the app faces a Jan. 19 deadline set by a law; President-elect Donald Trump has opposed the potential ban as well.

JPMorgan Chase and BlackRock, the giant money manager, just reported earnings. (In short: Both handily beat analyst expectations.)

But the Wall Street giants are likely to face questioning on a particular issue on Wednesday: Which top lieutenants are in line to replace their larger-than-life C.E.O.s, Jamie Dimon and Larry Fink.

Who’s out:

  • Daniel Pinto, who had long been Dimon’s right-hand man, said he would officially drop his responsibilities as JPMorgan’s C.O.O. in June and retire at the end of 2026. Jenn Piepszak, the co-C.E.O. of the company’s core commercial and investment bank, has become C.O.O.

  • And Mark Wiedman, the head of BlackRock’s global client business and a top contender to succeed Fink, is planning to leave, according to news reports.

What Wall Street is gossiping about JPMorgan: Even in taking the C.O.O. role, JPMorgan said that Piepszak wasn’t interested in succeeding Dimon “at this time.” DealBook hears that while she genuinely appears not to want to pursue the top job, the phrasing covers her in case she changes her mind.

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For now, that means the most likely candidates for the top spot are Marianne Lake, the company’s head of consumer and community banking; Troy Rohrbaugh, the other co-head of the commercial and investment bank; and Doug Petno, a co-head of global banking.

The buzz around BlackRock: Wiedman reportedly didn’t want to keep waiting to succeed Fink and is expected to seek a C.E.O. position elsewhere. (So sudden was his departure that he’s forfeiting about $8 million worth of stock options and, according to The Wall Street Journal, he doesn’t have another job lined up yet.)

Fink said on CNBC on Wednesday that Wiedman’s departure had been in the works for some time, with the executive having expressed a desire to leave about six months ago.

Other candidates to take over for Fink include Martin Small, BlackRock’s C.F.O.; Rob Goldstein, the firm’s C.O.O.; and Rachel Lord, the head of international.

But Dimon and Fink aren’t going anywhere just yet. Dimon, 68, said only last year that he might not be in the role in five years. And Fink, 72, said in July that he was working on succession planning: “When I do believe the next generation is ready, I’m out.”

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Another battle between Elon Musk and the S.E.C. erupted on Tuesday, with the agency suing the tech mogul over his 2022 purchase of Twitter.

It’s unclear what happens to the lawsuit once President-elect Donald Trump, who counts Musk as a close ally, takes office. But the agency’s reputation as an independent watchdog may be at stake.

A recap: The S.E.C. accused Musk of violating securities laws in his $44 billion acquisition of the social media company.

The agency said that Musk had failed to disclose his Twitter ownership stake for a pivotal 11-day stretch before revealing his intentions to purchase the company. That breach allowed him to buy up at least $150 million worth of Twitter shares at a lower price — to the detriment of existing shareholders, the agency argues.

The S.E.C. isn’t just seeking to fine Musk. It wants him to pay back the windfall. “That’s unusual,” Ann Lipton, a professor at Tulane Law School, told DealBook.

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Alex Spiro, Musk’s lawyer, called the latest action a “sham” and accused the agency of waging a “multiyear campaign of harassment” against him.

The showdown sets up a tough question for the S.E.C. Will Paul Atkins, the president-elect’s widely respected pick to lead the agency, drop the case? Such a move could call the bedrock principle of S.E.C. independence into question.

Jay Clayton, who led the agency during Trump’s first term, earned the respect of the business community for running it in a largely drama-free manner. It was under Clayton that the S.E.C. sued Musk over his statements about taking Tesla private.

Musk, who is set to become Trump’s cost-cutting czar and is expected to have office space in the White House complex, has called for the “comprehensive overhaul” of agencies like the S.E.C. The billionaire said he would also like to see “punitive action against those individuals who have abused their regulatory power for personal and political gain.”

  • In related news: The Consumer Financial Protection Bureau sued Capital One, accusing it of cheating its depositors out of $2 billion in interest payments.

Deals

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  • DAZN, the streaming network backed by the billionaire businessman Len Blavatnik, is closing in on funding from Saudi Arabia’s sovereign wealth fund as the kingdom continues to expand its sports footprint. (NYT)

  • The Justice Department sued KKR, accusing the investment giant of withholding information during government reviews for several of its deals. KKR filed a countersuit. (Bloomberg)

  • OpenAI added Adebayo Ogunlesi, the billionaire co-founder of the infrastructure investment firm Global Infrastructure Partners, to its board. (FT)

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For uninsured fire victims, the Small Business Administration offers a rare lifeline

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For uninsured fire victims, the Small Business Administration offers a rare lifeline

As wildfires continue to burn around Southern California, thousands of business owners, homeowners and renters are confronting the daunting challenge of rebuilding from the ashes. For some number of them, the road ahead will be all the more difficult because they didn’t have any or enough insurance to cover their losses. For them, the U.S. Small Business Administration is a possible lifeline.

The SBA, which offers emergency loans to businesses, homeowners, renters and nonprofits, is among the few relief options for those who don’t have insurance or are underinsured. Uninsured Angelenos can also apply for disaster assistance through the Federal Emergency Management Agency, or FEMA.

The current wildfires are ravaging a state that was already in the midst of a home insurance crisis. Thousands of homeowners have lost their insurance in recent years as providers pull out of fire-prone areas and jack up their prices in the face of rising risk.

“For those who are not going to get that insurance payout, this is available,” Small Business Administration head Isabella Casillas Guzman said in an interview during a recent trip to the fire areas. “The loans are intended to fill gaps, and that is very broad.”

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About one-third of businesses don’t have insurance and three-quarters are underinsured, Guzman said.

“There will be residual effects around the whole community,” she said. “Insurance will not cover this disaster.”

Businesses, nonprofits and small agricultural cooperatives can apply for an economic injury loan or a physical damage loan through SBA. Homeowners are eligible for physical damage loans. Economic injury loans are intended to help businesses meet ordinary financial demands, while physical damage loans provide funds for repairs and restoration. People can apply online and loans must be repaid within 30 years.

Renters can receive up to $100,000 in assistance, homeowners up to $500,000 and businesses up to $2 million, according to Guzman. Homeowners and renters who cannot get access to credit elsewhere can qualify for loans with a interest rate of 2.5%. The SBA determines an applicant has no credit available elsewhere if they do not have other funds to pay for disaster recovery and cannot borrow from nongovernment sources.

Interest rates for homeowners and renters who do have access to credit elsewhere are just over 5%. Loans for businesses could come with interest rates of 4% or 8% depending on whether the business has other credit options.

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An applicant must show they are able to repay their loan and have a credit history acceptable to the SBA in order to be approved. The loans became available following President Biden’s declaration of a major disaster in California.

“We’ve already received hundreds of applications from individuals and businesses interested in exploring additional support,” Guzman said. “We know the economic disruption may not be contained to the footprint of any evacuation zones or power outages.”

People who don’t have insurance or whose insurance doesn’t cover the entirety of their losses are eligible for loans, Guzman said. While many will use the funds to start from scratch after losing their property to the fires, businesses that are still standing can also apply for support to cover lost revenue.

Guzman was not able to estimate the total value of loans they expect to offer in California but said the organization is on solid financial footing after temporarily running out of funds in October.

“Funding has been replenished by Congress, and we expect to be able to coordinate closely with Congress,” Guzman said. “We’re fully funded and in a good position to provide support.”

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Cookies, Cocktails and Mushrooms on the Menu as Justices Hear Bank Fraud Case

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Cookies, Cocktails and Mushrooms on the Menu as Justices Hear Bank Fraud Case

In a lively Supreme Court argument on Tuesday that included references to cookies, cocktails and toxic mushrooms, the justices tried to find the line between misleading statements and outright lies in the case of a Chicago politician convicted of making false statements to bank regulators.

The case concerned Patrick Daley Thompson, a former Chicago alderman who is the grandson of one former mayor, Richard J. Daley, and the nephew of another, Richard M. Daley. He conceded that he had misled the regulators but said his statements fell short of the outright falsehoods he said were required to make them criminal.

The justices peppered the lawyers with colorful questions that tried to tease out the difference between false and misleading statements.

Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. asked whether a motorist pulled over on suspicion of driving while impaired said something false by stating that he had had one cocktail while omitting that he had also drunk four glasses of wine.

Caroline A. Flynn, a lawyer for the federal government, said that a jury could find the statement to be false because “the officer was asking for a complete account of how much the person had had to drink.”

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Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson asked about a child who admitted to eating three cookies when she had consumed 10.

Ms. Flynn said context mattered.

“If the mom had said, ‘Did you eat all the cookies,’ or ‘how many cookies did you eat,’ and the child says, ‘I ate three cookies’ when she ate 10, that’s a false statement,” Ms. Flynn said. “But, if the mom says, ‘Did you eat any cookies,’ and the child says three, that’s not an understatement in response to a specific numerical inquiry.”

Justice Sonia Sotomayor asked whether it was false to label toxic mushrooms as “a hundred percent natural.” Ms. Flynn did not give a direct response.

The case before the court, Thompson v. United States, No. 23-1095, started when Mr. Thompson took out three loans from Washington Federal Bank for Savings between 2011 and 2014. He used the first, for $110,000, to finance a law firm. He used the next loan, for $20,000, to pay a tax bill. He used the third, for $89,000, to repay a debt to another bank.

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He made a single payment on the loans, for $390 in 2012. The bank, which did not press him for further payments, went under in 2017.

When the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation and a loan servicer it had hired sought repayment of the loans plus interest, amounting to about $270,000, Mr. Thompson told them he had borrowed $110,000, which was true in a narrow sense but incomplete.

After negotiations, Mr. Thompson in 2018 paid back the principal but not the interest. More than two years later, federal prosecutors charged him with violating a law making it a crime to give “any false statement or report” to influence the F.D.I.C.

He was convicted and ordered to repay the interest, amounting to about $50,000. He served four months in prison.

Chris C. Gair, a lawyer for Mr. Thompson, said his client’s statements were accurate in context, an assertion that met with skepticism. Justice Elena Kagan noted that the jury had found the statements were false and that a ruling in Mr. Thompson’s favor would require a court to rule that no reasonable juror could have come to that conclusion.

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Justices Neil M. Gorsuch and Brett M. Kavanaugh said that issue was not before the court, which had agreed to decide the legal question of whether the federal law, as a general matter, covered misleading statements. Lower courts, they said, could decide whether Mr. Thompson had been properly convicted.

Justice Samuel A. Alito Jr. asked for an example of a misleading statement that was not false. Mr. Gair, who was presenting his first Supreme Court argument, responded by talking about himself.

“If I go back and change my website and say ‘40 years of litigation experience’ and then in bold caps say ‘Supreme Court advocate,’” he said, “that would be, after today, a true statement. It would be misleading to anybody who was thinking about whether to hire me.”

Justice Alito said such a statement was, at most, mildly misleading. But Justice Kagan was impressed.

“Well, it is, though, the humblest answer I’ve ever heard from the Supreme Court podium,” she said, to laughter. “So good show on that one.”

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