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Artist, scientist, polymath — a new documentary uncovers the real Leonardo da Vinci

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Artist, scientist, polymath — a new documentary uncovers the real Leonardo da Vinci

People watch a hologram called “Studio di uomo barbuto” (study of bearded man) during a Leonardo da Vinci multimedia installation in Milan in 2019.

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More than half a millennium after his death, Leonardo da Vinci is still one of the most well-known artists in the world. The rare artist who, when you name some of his most iconic paintings, most people will immediately picture the artwork in their minds: the Mona Lisa, The Last Supper, his Vitruvian Man notebook sketches.

We have a lot of labels for da Vinci — artist, scientist, polymath — but a new documentary seeks to understand da Vinci as a person.

Documentary filmmakers Ken Burns, his daughter Sarah Burns, and her husband, David McMahon, are the co-directors of a new two-part miniseries called Leonardo da Vinci.

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Ken and Sarah Burns sat down with All Things Considered host Scott Detrow to talk about what they learned about the human experience from studying da Vinci.

The trailer for the new PBS documentary, “Leonardo da Vinci.”

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This interview has been lightly edited for length and clarity.

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Interview highlights

Scott Detrow: Ken, I want to start with you. You have made a career out of telling American stories. What was it about Leonardo da Vinci that made you want to step outside that lane that you have carved so well?

Ken Burns: Sarah and Dave. I was an old dog that needed to be reminded that I could still learn a new trick. I’d had this sort of sense that I only did American topics. I think the rest sort of plows from that. They moved to Italy for a year to work on this, and sort of realize that this person is one of the most extraordinary gifts to humanity that we’ve ever had, arguably the person of the last millennium. And lots of people could make a run for that statement, but Leonardo is a hugely inspirational figure.

(From left) David McMahon, Sarah Burns and Ken Burns arrive at the New York Film Critics Circle awards dinner in January 2013 after co-directing the documentary

(From left) David McMahon, Sarah Burns and Ken Burns arrive at the New York Film Critics Circle awards dinner in January 2013 after co-directing the documentary “The Central Park Five.”

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Scott Detrow: There are so many different elements of da Vinci that I think fascinate us 500-plus years later. What to you is his most remarkable aspect? What to you is the draw that makes you go, like, “I can’t I can’t believe he did that”?

Sarah Burns: I think it’s really his curiosity, and that’s what leads him to want to explore everything. He’s obsessed with nature and knowing everything there is to know about it, and that’s what leads him down all of these different paths that, to him, are entirely connected. He does not see boundaries between these disciplines that today we would say, “Art is over here and science is over here.” It’s all part of this grand experiment to try to understand the world. And so for him, it’s all process. And that’s the amazing thing about him is that he is looking at all of these things, and in each case, pushing it further, wanting to know more, asking more questions, rejecting authority in many cases on a subject, in order to figure out what the reality, the truth of this thing. And it’s extraordinary to see that.

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Ken Burns: I think Sarah is right that this focus on nature and relentlessly questioning everything, it makes him see that it was necessary to know everything about the human body, the circulatory system, the skeletal system — the everything — in order to paint the Mona Lisa, and vice versa for these other things. So what happens is that what Leonardo leads you to is the essential essence of the human project. What is the nature of this universe? Why are we here? Why am I here? What is my purpose? Where am I going? These are essential questions that our daily life distracts us from. I mean, left us no kind of diaries of what he felt, but he left us thousands of pages of what he thought.

The Virgin of the Rocks at the National Gallery in London in 2019.

The Virgin of the Rocks at the National Gallery in London in 2019.

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Scott Detrow: One of the most interesting things about da Vinci is the fact the guy was kind of a procrastinator. So many of these great paintings weren’t finished. So many of these commissions took a very long time. What do you make of that aspect of it?

Ken Burns: I think procrastination isn’t quite the right word. I think it’s really this relentless questioning of the universe, as Guillermo del Toro, the Mexican filmmaker, says in our film. So you see in a great painting like the Adoration of the Magi — that is an abandoned work — that perhaps the questions that he is asking have not been answered or won’t be answered by this particular project, and he’s moved away. So he’s not in the business of art. He has to survive, he has to get commissions, he has to live — but he’s about these higher pursuits. So he’ll walk away because he’s either satisfied or he’s not satisfied and needs to turn his attention to something else; to study water dynamics or to study the flight of birds, or to understand things about gravity or anatomy, or all of these things that he’s constantly pursuing. And he didn’t invent the helicopter or the submarine or these things, but he, in his drawings, prefigured our own pursuits later on. And that makes him incredibly modern.

Documentarian Ken Burns conducts a question and answer session in June in College Park.

Documentarian Ken Burns conducts a question and answer session in June in College Park.

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Scott Detrow: I want to pause from the Renaissance for a moment and talk about current events. Because, Ken, we talked about the fact that this is a non-American subject that you tackle, but you have been telling the story of America throughout your career. And I have to ask, a week after this presidential election, what do you think the story of America over the past decade is? What is the story that’s happening right now, in the middle of the moment, at least? How are you thinking about the currents that we’re seeing and the choices the American people are making?

Ken Burns: The first thing is that you want to make sure that you don’t superimpose a story. You don’t want to tell people what it is. You have to let the story emerge. The other thing is that human nature never changes. So these are not unfamiliar events. Historians are, for the most part, happy because we know that there is existing precedent, and we know that people get through things and that there are challenging times and there’s unexpected parts. This is why documentary, to me, is so much more fruitful than making stuff up. And so I have to wait and give some distance. And so I think that what you have to do is exhale a little bit, and we cannot look away. We have to dedicate ourselves to telling complicated stories. And when you do that, then you’ve got the tools. I mean, there’s no greater teacher than the history you don’t know, and that allows you to meet a moment with a little bit more courage and a little bit more purpose and determination.

Scott Detrow: Let’s end on Renaissance Italy. And I want to end this interview by asking what your favorite work of art by Leonardo is, and why? Now this project is done and about to be shown to everybody, what are you still thinking about?

Sarah Burns: The one that moved me the most, I think just standing in front of it, was his Virgin and Child with Saint Anne. It’s larger than I had realized, and it’s been restored within the last decade or so, and so the colors are vibrant in a way that we unfortunately don’t always get with these paintings. I was stunned standing there. And we were lucky to get to go there and film overnight at the Louvre when it was empty, and sort of just experience it on our own, which was a really moving thing to be sort of up close and personal with that one.

A visitor takes a picture of The Virgin and Child with Saint Anne in the Louvre in 2012.

A visitor takes a picture of The Virgin and Child with Saint Anne in the Louvre in 2012.

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Ken Burns: For me, I have an experience where I was scouting in advance of Sarah’s filming in 2019 and in an empty Louvre with the paintings going up, and I passed by this thing called the Virgin of the Rocks. And, you know, I read the thing, I went, “Huh.” You know, “Another great background and whatever.” And then, in our film, through an interview that Sarah and Dave did with Monsignor Timothy Verdon, a Catholic priest but also an art historian, he narrates a version of this painting that is new to me. And it woke me up from the person who saw it, that basically this woman who knows through all time that she is to bear the son of God who must die. Her maternal instincts in this painting, she’s trying to restrain John the Baptist. She’s trying to reach her son, but an angel isn’t there. And so you have, as he says, this larger purpose of drawing. You’re seeing a mother with the natural maternal instincts. And not just the people in three dimensions, but the intentions of their mind — what they’re feeling, what they’re thinking. And that, to me, is just what we’re all here about, all of us.

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Video: Prada Peels Back the Layers at Milan Fashion Week

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Video: Prada Peels Back the Layers at Milan Fashion Week

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Baz Luhrmann will make you fall in love with Elvis Presley

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Baz Luhrmann will make you fall in love with Elvis Presley

Elvis Presley in Las Vegas in Aug. 1970.

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“You are my favorite customer,” Baz Luhrmann tells me on a recent Zoom call from the sunny Chateau Marmont in Hollywood. The director is on a worldwide blitz to promote his new film, EPiC: Elvis Presley in Concert — which opens wide this week — and he says this, not to flatter me, but because I’ve just called his film a miracle.

See, I’ve never cared a lick about Elvis Presley, who would have turned 91 in January, had he not died in 1977 at the age of 42. Never had an inkling to listen to his music, never seen any of his films, never been interested in researching his life or work. For this millennial, Presley was a fossilized, mummified relic from prehistory — like a woolly mammoth stuck in the La Brea Tar Pits — and I was mostly indifferent about seeing 1970s concert footage when I sat down for an early IMAX screening of EPiC.

By the end of its rollicking, exhilarating 90 minutes, I turned to my wife and said, “I think I’m in love with Elvis Presley.”

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“I’m not trying to sell Elvis,” Luhrmann clarifies. “But I do think that the most gratifying thing is when someone like you has the experience you’ve had.”

Elvis made much more of an imprint on a young Luhrmann; he watched the King’s movies while growing up in New South Wales, Australia in the 1960s, and he stepped to 1972’s “Burning Love” as a young ballroom dancer. But then, like so many others, he left Elvis behind. As a teenager, “I was more Bowie and, you know, new wave and Elton and all those kinds of musical icons,” he says. “I became a big opera buff.”

Luhrmann only returned to the King when he decided to make a movie that would take a sweeping look at America in the 1950s, ’60s, and ’70s — which became his 2022 dramatized feature, Elvis, starring Austin Butler. That film, told in the bedazzled, kaleidoscopic style that Luhrmann is famous for, cast Presley as a tragic figure; it was framed and narrated by Presley’s notorious manager, Colonel Tom Parker, portrayed by a conniving and heavily made-up Tom Hanks. The dark clouds of business exploitation, the perils of fame, and an early demise hang over the singer’s heady rise and fall.

It was a divisive movie. Some praised Butler’s transformative performance and the director’s ravishing style; others experienced it as a nauseating 2.5-hour trailer. Reviewing it for Fresh Air, Justin Chang said that “Luhrmann’s flair for spectacle tends to overwhelm his basic story sense,” and found the framing device around Col. Parker (and Hanks’ “uncharacteristically grating” acting) to be a fatal flaw.

Personally, I thought it was the greatest thing Luhrmann had ever made, a perfect match between subject and filmmaker. It reminded me of Oliver Stone’s breathless, Shakespearean tragedy about Richard Nixon (1995’s Nixon), itself an underrated masterpiece. Yet somehow, even for me, it failed to light a fire of interest in Presley himself — and by design, I now realize after seeing EPiC, it omitted at least one major aspect of Elvis’ appeal: the man was charmingly, endearingly funny.

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As seen in Luhrmann’s new documentary, on stage, in the midst of a serious song, Elvis will pull a face, or ad lib a line about his suit being too tight to get on his knees, or sing for a while with a bra (which has been flung from the audience) draped over his head. He’s constantly laughing and ribbing and keeping his musicians, and himself, entertained. If Elvis was a tragedy, EPiC is a romantic comedy — and Presley’s seduction of us, the audience, is utterly irresistible.

Unearthing old concert footage 

It was in the process of making Elvis that Luhrmann discovered dozens of long-rumored concert footage tapes in a Kansas salt mine, where Warner Bros. stores some of their film archives. Working with Peter Jackson’s team at the post-production facility Park Road Post, who did the miraculous restoration of Beatles rehearsal footage for Jackson’s 2021 Disney+ series, Get Back, they burnished 50-plus hours of 55-year-old celluloid into an eye-popping sheen with enough visual fidelity to fill an IMAX screen. In doing so, they resurrected a woolly mammoth. The film — which is a creative amalgamation of takes from rehearsals and concerts that span from 1970 to 1972 — places the viewer so close to the action that we can viscerally feel the thumping of the bass and almost sense that we’ll get flecked with the sweat dripping off Presley’s face.

This footage was originally shot for the 1970 concert film Elvis: That’s The Way It Is, and its 1972 sequel, Elvis on Tour, which explains why these concerts were shot like a Hollywood feature: wide shots on anamorphic 35mm and with giant, ultra-bright Klieg lights — which, Luhrmann explains, “are really disturbing. So [Elvis] was very apologetic to the audience, because the audience felt a bit more self conscious than they would have been at a normal show. They were actually making a movie, they weren’t just shooting a concert.”

Luhrmann chose to leave in many shots where camera operators can be seen running around with their 16mm cameras for close-ups, “like they’re in the Vietnam War trying to get the best angles,” because we live in an era where we’re used to seeing cameras everywhere and Luhrmann felt none of the original directors’ concern about breaking the illusion. Those extreme close-ups, which were achieved by operators doing math and manually pulling focus, allow us to see even the pores on Presley’s skin — now projected onto a screen the size of two buildings.

The sweat that comes out of those pores is practically a character in the film. Luhrmann marvels at how much Presley gave in every single rehearsal and every single concert performance. Beyond the fact that “he must have superhuman strength,” Luhrmann says, “He becomes the music. He doesn’t mark stuff. He just becomes the music, and then no one knows what he’s going to do. The band do not know what he’s going to do, so they have to keep their eyes on him all the time. They don’t know how many rounds he’s going to do in ‘Suspicious Minds.’ You know, he conducts them with his entire being — and that’s what makes him unique.”

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Elvis Presley in Las Vegas in Aug. 1970.

Elvis Presley in Las Vegas in Aug. 1970.

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It’s not the only thing. The revivified concerts in EPiC are a potent argument that Elvis wasn’t just a superior live performer to the Beatles (who supplanted him as the kings of pop culture in the 1960s), but possibly the greatest live performer of all time. His sensual, magmatic charisma on stage, the way he conducts the large band and choir, the control he has over that godlike gospel voice, and the sorcerer’s power he has to hold an entire audience in the palm of his hands (and often to kiss many of its women on the lips) all come across with stunning, electrifying urgency.

Shaking off the rust and building a “dreamscape” 

The fact that, on top of it all, he is effortlessly funny and goofy is, in Luhrmann’s mind, essential to the magic of Elvis. While researching for Elvis, he came to appreciate how insecure Presley was as a kid — growing up as the only white boy in a poor Black neighborhood, and seeing his father thrown into jail for passing a bad check. “Inside, he felt very less-than,” says Luhrmann, “but he grows up into a physical Greek god. I mean, we’ve forgotten how beautiful he was. You see it in the movie; he is a beautiful looking human being. And then he moves. And he doesn’t learn dance steps — he just manifests that movement. And then he’s got the voice of Orpheus, and he can take a song like ‘Bridge Over Troubled Water’ and make it into a gospel power ballad.

“So he’s like a spiritual being. And I think he’s imposing. So the goofiness, the humor is about disarming people, making them get past the image — like he says — and see the man. That’s my own theory.”

Elvis has often been second-classed in the annals of American music because he didn’t write his own songs, but Luhrmann insists that interpretation is its own invaluable art form. “Orpheus interpreted the music as well,” the director says.

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In this way — as in their shared maximalist, cape-and-rhinestones style — Luhrmann and Elvis are a match made in Graceland. Whether he’s remixing Shakespeare as a ’90s punk music video in Romeo + Juliet or adding hip-hop beats to The Great Gatsby, Luhrmann is an artist who loves to take what was vibrantly, shockingly new in another century and make it so again.

Elvis Presley in Las Vegas in Aug. 1970.

Elvis Presley in Las Vegas in Aug. 1970.

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Luhrmann says he likes to take classic work and “shake off the rust and go, Well, when it was written, it wasn’t classical. When it was created, it was pop, it was modern, it was in the moment. That’s what I try and do.”

To that end, he conceived EPiC as “an imagined concert,” liberally building sequences from various nights, sometimes inserting rehearsal takes into a stage performance (ecstatically so in the song “Polk Salad Annie”), and adding new musical layers to some of the songs. Working with his music producer, Jamieson Shaw, he backed the King’s vocals on “Oh Happy Day” with a new recording of a Black gospel choir in Nashville. “So that’s an imaginative leap,” says Luhrmann. “It’s kind of a dreamscape.”

On some tracks, like “Burning Love,” new string arrangements give the live performances extra verve and cinematic depth. Luhrmann and his music team also radically remixed multiple Elvis songs into a new number, “A Change of Reality,” which has the King repeatedly asking “Do you miss me?” over a buzzing bass line and a syncopated beat.

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I didn’t miss Elvis before I saw EPiC — but after seeing the film twice now, I truly do.

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