CLEVELAND, Ohio — Former East Cleveland Police Chief Scott Gardner pleaded guilty Tuesday to failure to pay state taxes, and in return prosecutors dropped 23 financial charges, including theft in office, money laundering and grand theft.

We’re talking about whether Gardner was overcharged on Today in Ohio.

Listen online here.

Editor Chris Quinn hosts our daily half-hour news podcast, with editorial board member Lisa Garvin, impact editor Leila Atassi and content director Laura Johnston.

You’ve been sending Chris lots of thoughts and suggestions on our from-the-newsroom text account, in which he shares what we’re thinking about at cleveland.com. You can sign up here: https://joinsubtext.com/chrisquinn.

You can now join the conversation. Call 833-648-6329 (833-OHTODAY) if you’d like to leave a message we can play on the podcast.

Here’s what else we’re asking about today:

Ohio’s Jim Jordan played a key role Tuesday in the questioning of the attorney who had all those descriptions of Joe Biden as senile in the documents case. How did Jordan play it, exactly?

We talked a bit yesterday about the dueling endorsements in the U.S. Senate race in Ohio, with Matt Dolan getting Mike DeWine’s and Bernie Moreno trades on Donald Trump. What does chief political writer Andrew Tobias see going on here?

The Cuyahoga County prosecutor’s office portrayed the former East Cleveland police chief as a terrible criminal when it indicted him, saying he stole money from his officers and did all sorts of terrible things. Then, Tuesday, the prosecutor’s office agreed to the sweetest of sweetheart deals for the guy. What gives?? Was the chief overcharged?

This seems like one of those fishy studies, like those that said red wine was good for you. What did a Cleveland Clinic find was a side benefit for men taking Viagra to help with sexual dysfunction?

Their jobs are high-stress no doubt, so maybe they’re looking for beter mental health benefits. What’s the big step being taken by workers at the Cleveland Rape Crisis Center?

What does it mean that Cleveland has been chosen as one of the Bloomberg American Sustainable cities? What other cities were picked?

People who fish in the Cuyahoga River will get to tangle with a fish they have not seen there for decades. What is it, and why is it back?

We mentioned at the top of the podcast yesterday that Eric Carmen had died, but today, let’s go deeper. Let’s trace his history, Lisa.

What did celebrities across the spectrum say about Carmen upon his passing?

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Read the automated transcript below. Because it’s a computer-generated transcript, it contains many errors and misspellings.

Chris (00:02.809)

Looks like another lovely pre-spring day in Northeast Ohio. Can’t get enough of those. It’s Today in Ohio, the news podcast discussion from Cleveland.com and the Plain Dealer. I’m Chris Quinn here with Lisa Garvin, Laura Johnston, and Courtney Estolfi. And the lease is up first. Ohio’s Jim Jordan played a key role Tuesday in the questioning of an attorney who had all those ugly descriptions of Joe Biden as senile in the big documents case.

Lisa, how did Jordan play it exactly?

Lisa (00:33.891)

Well, he tried to play it as, you know, Biden being an incompetent elderly man. But this was a House Judiciary hearing yesterday and they had testimony from special counsel Robert Herr, who issued that report of Joe Biden mishandling classified documents. There were no charges filed. He said it did not rise to criminality and he was not able to prove criminal intent, but as we all know, he cited Biden’s age that said making him forgetful.

So Jim Jordan jumped on that. He said that Biden broke the law, but because he’s a forgetful old man who would appear sympathetic to a jury, heard not, chose not to bring charges against him. And of course, other Republicans are not happy that Trump and Biden are not being treated equally about classified documents handling. The Republican from Texas, Nathaniel Moran, suggested that Biden might need a guardian to oversee his affairs because if he can’t manage top secret files,

How can he manage personal financial resources? But Jerry Nadler and other Democrats came out swinging. Jerry Nadler from Florida, he said that Biden cooperated, Trump did not, and in fact did the opposite and went to lengths to hide these classified documents. Then he went on to play video clips of Trump’s many gaffes. And he said, well, you ought to think twice before accusing others of cognitive decline.

I just learned this morning that special counsel Herr actually resigned from the Department of Justice just before this hearing.

Chris (02:06.129)

The claim that there’s an equivalence between what Biden did, what Trump did, is preposterous. Trump clearly was trying to cover it up, was trying to defy the archives from getting the documents back, whereas Biden welcomed the investigators to his home and did everything possible to make it right. There’s the intent right there. Trump intentionally took secret documents and tried to hide it.

Chris (02:35.341)

and turn them back in. That’s why there was a criminal case on one side and not the other. And as for them being senile, they’re both too old to run for president. We should have different candidates.

Lisa (02:46.607)

Well, and you know, when her, and he went through the ringer yesterday, he was questioned on both sides by the committee, but he said that omitting references to Biden’s memory would be an incomplete and improper report. But some argue that it might be a violation of the Hatch Act.

Chris (03:04.045)

Huh, he was grilled by both sides. He did not have any friends in the room because the Republicans are mad he didn’t indict and the Democrats are mad they painted their leader as a senile old man. I didn’t realize he had resigned right before the hearing either. You’re listening to Today in Ohio. We talked a bit yesterday about the dueling endorsements in the US Senate race in Ohio with Matt Dolan getting Mike DeWine’s and Bernie Moreno trading on Donald Trump’s.

Laura, what is our chief political writer, Andrew Tobias Sees, going on here?

laura (03:37.195)

that it’s going to be a close, that it’s going to come down to the wire or, you know, the actual vote on election day on Tuesday, because it must be close if Trump was coming to Cincinnati. It hadn’t been clear as of Monday when Moreno was asked if Trump was going to come, but that development means thousands of Trump fans will hear a direct sales pitch on why they should vote for Moreno. There’s a poll out that was done last week says the race is close, Moreno narrowly leading

Frank Larros, Secretary of State, trailing in third place, but with a big portion of voters undecided. So Dolan has generally been perceived as the race underdog because of this moderate brand of politics that does not play well in a primary where you’re getting the very most firebrand of your party representatives to vote. But this could be a referendum on the approach that Ohioans prefer. Do they want a moderate statesman with a track record?

or a businessman with no track record and a lot of Trump aggression.

Chris (04:40.141)

I, the fact that Trump is coming to rally his troops to support Moreno, they were already going to vote for Moreno. I’m not sure it does much. Maybe it gets out a little bit more of the vote. I see this 100% is Trump and Moreno are worried that the recent polling has unbalanced them. They thought this would be a walk like it was with JD Vance and it may not be. And I don’t think DeWine would have endorsed if he didn’t think there was a solid chance. This week has changed the…

the dynamic. Andrew talked to Kyle Kondik, who doesn’t have any facts that he can base it on, he said, but he did offer some explanation of what’s going on.

laura (05:19.027)

He did say that either Trump could be visiting because he thinks Marino needs a big push to win or he thinks he’s totally fine and just wants to take credit for pushing him over the top, which I can totally see Trump doing, right? If Marino wins, it’ll be like, it was all because of me and we will never escape the loop of the Bernie Marino coming out of Trump’s mouth. But these ads are going crazy. If you are watching network TV, you’re going to be like, oh, I’m going to be like, oh,

Like Jeopardy was on in my house last night. It is just one after the other attack ads for all of them. Now, LaRose does not have near as much money in this race. Dolan spent $9 million of his own money funding this campaign. That’s twice the $4.2 million Merino has loaned to his campaign. But he is positioned to have the most TV ads benefiting him, airing between now and Tuesday. They definitely saw a negative attack ad for Dolan, too. So they.

Lisa (05:50.813)

Mm-hmm.

laura (06:13.451)

They’re on a cycle. It’s one after the other, and it’s just getting bombarded in your face, and I can’t wait till it’s over.

Chris (06:19.417)

Well, we’re not talking about LaRose because nobody’s endorsing him who matters. And that’s because Frank LaRose tried to destroy the ability of Ohioans to alter their constitution. And everybody knows that he’s not the person anybody wants to see ever again. I don’t think he could win secretary of state again, if he ran. He was such a villain in that and Ohioans spoke loudly. He should have dropped out. You’re listening to Today in Ohio.

The Cuyahoga County Prosecutor’s Office portrayed the former East Cleveland Police Chief as a terrible criminal when it indicted him, saying he stole money from his officers and did all sorts of terrible nasty things. Then Tuesday, the Prosecutor’s Office agreed to the sweetest of sweetheart deals for the guy. Courtney, what gives? Was this guy overcharged?

courtney (07:06.742)

Yeah, what we do know is that Scott Gardner, the ex Cleveland police chief, pleaded guilty yesterday to… excuse me, I misspoke, the East Cleveland police chief. You know, he pleaded guilty yesterday to failing to pay state taxes. And this plea came, you know, a day after his trial kicked off. So he was in the middle of trial when this unexpected plea deal happened. You know, what we don’t know is why prosecutors think Gardner

Lisa (07:09.559)

you know he pleaded guilty yesterday to failing to go to a new task. He pleaded guilty yesterday to failing to go to a new task.

Chris (07:12.233)

East Cleveland. East Cleveland Police Chief.

courtney (07:33.822)

you know, went for the plea after the trial was already in motion. And sometimes you see that, right. But it’s relatively unusual, especially when you kind of look at Gardner was facing 23 charges at trial. And like you said, that included theft in office, money laundering and grand theft. So these weren’t, you know, these weren’t light charges. He was facing a slew of charges here and now he’s down to this, this tax charge. And.

Lisa (07:33.927)

you know, went for the brief after the trial was already in motion. Sometimes you see the ashtray, but it’s quick to flip it on the rules. Especially when you kind of look at, Garner was basically a funny, really funny guy.

courtney (08:00.182)

You know, where that conviction leaves us is Gardner’s got to pay back nearly 150 grand. He could get anything from probation up to 18 months in jail or 18 months behind bars when he sentenced next week.

Chris (08:12.729)

But the original indictment paints a picture of a guy who was stealing from his police officers that were employed in various things. It wasn’t just that he didn’t pay taxes on his extra income. He was taking money that didn’t belong to him and he was robbing Peter to pay Paul. I don’t get how you make this deal if he did all the stuff that they said he did. And it makes me question whether the indictment was accurate. I mean, think about…

the picture that was painted of this guy in the indictment. And then we all talked about how despicable these acts are. If all he did was not pay taxes on some extra income, then that indictment was completely unfair. And there should be some analysis here of what this prosecutor’s office is doing. Are they overcharging people that severely to bludgeon them into a plea like this?

courtney (09:07.294)

You know, we do see, I will say, you know, we do see that often in our criminal justice system, lots of charges, lots of charges, and then you plead to something that seems relatively minor. I don’t know enough about this case to know maybe what the dynamics are at play there, but you know, we do know that Gardner’s attorney in the early stages of the trial that did happen this week was making the argument that he was just a bad bookkeeper and was sloppy with his finances.

You know, prosecutors had said that Gardner had under reported taxes on his security business by millions of dollars. And that ended up lowering his tax bill by $200,000. So, you know, not sure what, what happened there, but this, this plea came mid try.

Lisa (09:41.219)

billions of dollars and that ends up lowering the cost of

Chris (09:53.073)

It’s an important detail though, because when you serve in a key public position, there’s a whole lot of trust placed in you, and a police chief is such a position. So when you do things that are wrong, the level of justice is pretty rigid. I mean, that’s why, you know, we saw Jimmy Namorra get 28 years, and Larry Householder is spending probably the rest of his life behind bars.

So when we saw the stuff on this police chief, it was like, holy moly, this guy really violated the public trust. And you look at this plea deal and it’s like, OK, he underreported taxes. He cheated on his taxes to probably get probation. I just wonder what we can read into future indictments coming out of this prosecutor’s office if they basically say at the end, oh, never mind. This is not nearly as ugly.

as what was portrayed about this guy. So has he been unfairly treated? We don’t have the answer yet, but we should get it. You’re listening to Today in Ohio. This seems like one of those fishy studies like those that said red wine was good for you. Laura, what did a Cleveland Clinic study find was a side benefit for men taking Viagra to help with their sexual dysfunction?

laura (11:07.155)

Yeah, did you know that it helps with your brain as well? That you could have a reduction in Alzheimer’s disease diagnoses? This is what the Cleveland Clinic found when they analyzed records of millions of insurance claims. A 30 to 54% reduction in Alzheimer’s disease among these patients who took Sidonophil, which is the generic name for Viagra. The research, it’s not just a correlation because I was like, hmm.

Research also shows that the drug levels, lowers levels of neurotoxic tau proteins, those build up in the brains of patients with Alzheimer’s disease, and apparently shows an increase in levels of genes related to cell growth that improves brain function and reduces inflammation and other processes that protect against neural degeneration. So that explains maybe how this medication is working. What’s interesting about this, on top of the fact that it’s Viagra, is that

The team used computer modeling methods to predict that this was a promising drug candidate, and then they could dig in deeper into this new research, which doubles down and demonstrates how these computer modeling and AI can really fast track work of researchers.

Chris (12:20.805)

So are we going to start seeing marketing campaigns for a viagra saying have more sex and avoid dementia or I mean, there’s so many questions is the is the dementia lessened because the guys are walking around with less blood in their brains and more in other organs maybe it’s just this one is just made for late night TV jokes, right?

laura (12:43.515)

Oh, absolutely. And I want to know what the requisite for the other side is for women. I mean, if this really is a dementia medication, are we going to try Viagra on women too? I don’t know. It leads to so many jokes, yes, and so many questions. But I mean, as funny as it is, I’m really glad they’re doing this research and they’re looking for treatments because Alzheimer’s is such a.

Lisa (12:50.464)

Mm-hmm.

laura (13:08.555)

scary disease. Both of my mom’s parents died from Alzheimer’s and it’s such a long degenerative process and it depends on the person, what their personality is like. It’s really hard to watch and nobody wants to lose their faculties. So I’m glad they’re doing the research. I would not have predicted this. But by the way, it’s like all of Cleveland is working on this because it’s clinic research, but they also have people from Louis Stokes VA,

laura (13:38.019)

and the Cleveland Clinic Lou Ruvo Center for Brain Health in Las Vegas, which there you go. Here’s another Viagra joke for you with Vegas.

Chris (13:46.741)

Well, if this carries out the way you think, one, stock prices are going to go up for the maker of Viagra and the others, and two, there’s going to be a whole lot more sex happening in greater Cleveland. You’re listening to Today in Ohio. Their jobs are high stress, no doubt, so maybe they’re looking for better mental health benefits. Lisa, what’s the big step being taken by workers at the Cleveland Rape Crisis Center?

Lisa (14:12.111)

A little more than half of the employees at the center, 45 of 80 overall, have filed a petition to unionize with the National Labor Relations Board. This includes workers who are specialists, therapists, and clinical workers. They’re being represented by the Service Employees International Union number 1199 here in the Cleveland area. They’ve asked the Crisis Center to unionize voluntarily, but if that doesn’t happen, the Labor Relations Board will hear the case.

and then schedule an election on whether to form a union at the Cleveland Rape Crisis Center. In a statement, the center says they’re aware of the union organizing. They say that we value our direct relationship with is usually a euphemism that they don’t want unions in the middle. They declined to say if they would recognize the union voluntarily and they had no other comment for us.

Chris (15:03.341)

I was surprised how many employees they actually have. I didn’t realize it was that big of an organization. And usually when workers seek to unionize, they’re dissatisfied with something. But we really don’t have any idea what they’re dissatisfied with, do we?

Lisa (15:18.099)

No, we don’t. The details are kind of thin on this. We don’t really know. Obviously, you know, the center is not saying anything. But it would be interesting to know why the employees feel that they need to unionize. They do serve, I didn’t think they served beyond Cleveland, but they serve people in Cuyahoga, Geauga, Lake and Ashtabula counties.

Chris (15:39.949)

Well, and the tough thing for the people running the place is they rely on a lot of contributions. It’s a nonprofit. And so if they end up having kind of a bitter battle over this with the employees, I would think it could affect their ability to raise money. You’re listening to Today in Ohio. All right, Courtney, what does it mean that Cleveland has been chosen as one of the Bloomberg American sustainable cities and what other cities are we now in the peer group of?

courtney (16:07.858)

Yeah, mainly it means Cleveland is getting some manpower and some assistance from Bloomberg philanthropies when it comes to sustainable, equitable, equitable building projects and transportation projects. So we found out yesterday that Cleveland was one of twenty five cities around the U.S. picked for this program that is really kind of out there at this moment functioning as a way to help cities tap.

what we expect to be just historic levels of federal grants and federal spending that are coming down through the bipartisan infrastructure law and the Inflation Reduction Act. So this philanthropies program, you know, just to start out, it’s worth noting, Cleveland wasn’t the only Ohio city that was picked to be part of this group of 25. We also saw Dayton, Cincinnati, Columbus and Akron join this list, along with Pittsburgh.

So a lot of nearby cities and like I said, the goal is aimed at equitable development, you know, making sure that communities of color have access to sustainable development in their neighborhoods because we know so many problems are based in inequities and how developments happen in the past. You talk about the tree canopy, higher urban temperatures in neighborhoods that are majority minority. So there’s a whole host of development related climate and equity related

this program is supposed to help Cleveland, you know, tap into that and start addressing some of that stuff.

Chris (17:35.345)

Do you find it odd that Ohio accounts for about 20% of the cities chosen? It’s a big country. Why do you think we’re so concentrated with the cities that are in this program?

courtney (17:44.81)

You know, I did wonder that as well. Tennessee was another big one that had a lot of cities participating. I’m not sure. I’m not sure why I, you know, Bloomberg isn’t. What was that? Um, I believe Mayor Bibbs been, you know, working in partnership with Bloomberg on a variety of things, so I imagine his work and partnership over there has helped bring this to Cleveland.

Chris (17:56.037)

Did we have to apply?

Chris (18:14.765)

Well, and he has made it a point to talk to the mayors of other cities regularly. And I wonder if in those conversations, if one of them got onto this and they all learned of it that way, and that’s how they all got in. It just seems odd because you don’t think of Ohio as one of the great nature loving states. We’re drilling under state parks now. We’re doing all sorts of things that are not really green friendly. Our green energy policy has been abolished by the legislature pretty much. So it’s odd that.

We get this and really let’s face it Cleveland can’t even really do recycling I mean, it’s a voluntary opt-in program because they can’t get people to do it So you don’t really look at Cleveland as a bastion of sustainability, but maybe bibs trying to change that

courtney (18:58.878)

And on the other side of that coin, perhaps cities without state support or as much state support in some of these categories could use the boost from elsewhere outside the state house.

Chris (19:09.797)

Good point. You’re listening to Today in Ohio. People who fish in the Cuyahoga river will get to tangle with a fish they have not seen there for decades. Laura, what is it and why is it back?

laura (19:20.779)

This is steelhead trout, and for the first time, the State Division of Wildlife is going to stock the Cuyahoga River with steelhead. It’s a non-native fish that plays well with the regular population, and sport fishermen love it because I guess it’s very spirited. They put up a fight. It was too polluted for decades to be able to do this. We know the river caught on fire, right? In 1987, the river was labeled an area of concern.

10 big pollutant problems that it’s been trying to take care of ever since. And we’ve gotten rid of five. The latest was in August when the US EPA determined that we didn’t have any more fish with deformities in the river than we did in the lake. So it wasn’t, the river wasn’t polluting those fish. So now the state is saying, okay, we’re going to stock it just like they do with a whole bunch of other rivers, Vermilion, Rockies, Chagrin, Grand and Ashtabula rivers. And they’ll be

Lisa (20:17.097)

And they’ll be 450,000 of these yearlings deposited in April across that region. All those rivers would make for some of the best field has been.

laura (20:18.263)

450,000 of these yearlings deposited in April across that region, all those rivers, which makes us some of the best steelhead fishing in the entire world.

Chris (20:29.893)

But what are we doing putting non-native fish into the river? That just doesn’t seem like something that a State Natural Resources Department would get behind. You would think you’d want to make sure that the native species are well tended. But whenever we start messing with Mother Nature, things can go awry.

laura (20:47.991)

That’s a good question and I don’t know the details of the ecosystem. I know that this happens in other states too. New York definitely puts them in the rivers that go into the lake and the steelhead spawn in the rivers and they’re there in the spring and the fall and then they go into the lake in the summer months. I don’t think they’ve seen any problems because of this. It’s not like quagga mussels that they’re just taking over the entire lake. It’s been studied for a long time, but it is an interesting question.

Lisa (20:49.207)

and I don’t know if he still uses the program. I know this happens in other states too. Or.

laura (21:17.175)

about that. I mean, Lake Erie has 2% of the water in the Great Lakes, 98% of the fish, and we are known for our walleye and our perch, but I guess Steelhead isn’t competing with that. We’ve had some really good walleye hatches and the perch hasn’t been terrible. The Metro parks also stock their own set of Steelhead in I’m not sure how many rivers, but I know the Rocky River is one of them. There’s still thousands of fish that they deposit too.

Lisa (21:35.794)

Mm-hmm.

Chris (21:42.137)

How do we know that it doesn’t do some kind of damage if it’s not native? I’m sure hunters would love to shoot lions in Ohio, but we’re not bringing them in. I just, it throws me that we’re putting non-native species into a river that has been so threatened. And the explanation that they sent didn’t really explain it. Yeah, we don’t think it does any damage. When’s the last time we closely studied that? And are we sure? And if we haven’t had them in there for decades.

laura (21:50.295)

Please no.

Lisa (22:08.155)

Well.

Chris (22:10.841)

How do we know decades ago that it wasn’t doing damage? It just seems odd to me that we’re playing with Mother Nature after all these years of trying not to.

Lisa (22:20.039)

But I think several species of trout do mix in the wild. And I believe Laura said that in her talk about the story. So I’m not sure that there’s an issue here. But I don’t know. I’m not a naturist. But I do know that you can find several different species of trout in the same area.

Chris (22:38.637)

Well, I guess we plant Japanese red maples in our yard, so we’ve been mixing species that are non-native for years. You’re listening to Today in Ohio. We mentioned at the top of the podcast yesterday that Eric Carmen had died, but today let’s go deeper. Let’s trace his history, Lisa.

laura (22:38.707)

Yes, dear.

laura (22:45.675)

It’s true.

Lisa (22:56.035)

Yeah, his songs are the songs of my adolescence. 74 year old Cleveland musician, Eric Carman, died over the weekend. And we’re going to talk about this in a bit, but tributes poured in from all over, from fans and musicians. He was born in Cleveland in 1949, but he was raised right here in Lindhurst, actually on Emmett Road, as I found out earlier this morning. He came bursting onto the national stage in 1972 as the lead singer for the Razz Berries in their hit,

Go All The Way, which was like the soundtrack of every party I went to. I was just going into 10th grade that year. It reached number five on the Billboard top 100. And then the band broke up only three years later. They broke up in 1975, but Carmen became a very successful solo artist. He was in the adult contemporary list. He had many hits, All By Myself, which was his first solo single in 1975.

Chris (23:28.401)

Hahaha.

Lisa (23:52.463)

Then he had Hungry Eyes in 1987. That was the Dirty Dancing. It was in the Dirty Dancing movie soundtrack. And it was actually recorded in Beechwood at Beechwood Studios. And it made the number four on the Billboard top 100 of that year. He just was a great guy. He also wrote songs for other people. He wrote the song Almost Paradise, which was featured in the Footloose movie soundtrack that was sung by Mike Reno of Loverboy, another…

Working for the Weekend, that was a great song, and Anne Wilson from Heart. He leaves behind his wife, Amy. This is something I also found out. He married her 10 years ago. She’s actually a former WKYC meteorologist. And she said online that it gave him great joy to know that his music touched so many people and that it will be his lasting legacy.

Chris (24:42.841)

I think he lived in Gates Mills. If he didn’t, he at least did provide support. There’s a plaque in the library there for how he had supported that.

Lisa (24:52.235)

Yes, he did. His last home was in Gates Mills, yes, but he was raised in Lindhurst.

Chris (24:54.797)

Yes. So true Northeast Ohio guy. I guess in recent years, he’s become a big supporter of Donald Trump. But we can’t hold that against him, because, like you said, he provided the soundtrack of our lives. And and Courtney’s generation got introduced to it through the Guardians of the Galaxy movie, because this song was a key feature of that.

Lisa (25:15.859)

Oh, right, because it was on the soundtrack of Chris Pratt’s character. And also this little detail that was buried far down in another story that Carmen was a Beatles fanatic and that he was the youngest violin piano student to attend the Cleveland Institute of Music, although it didn’t say what age he was.

Chris (25:35.037)

It did feel like his early music was a nod to the Beatles because rock music had moved away from that a bit and he the raspberries kind of brought that spirit back. Courtney what did celebrities across the spectrum say about his passing.

Lisa (25:45.649)

Mm-hmm.

courtney (25:50.43)

Yeah, you know, he got a lot of love from fellow rockers this week. We heard from Stephen Vanzant of the E Street band, and he told his friend Carmen to rest in peace. He said the Razz Berries set a production standard that others like him are still trying to reach. We also heard from Paul Stanley of Kiss, who did shows with the Razz Berries back in the day, you know, he expressed his regrets and called Carmen a true rocker at heart.

He said his voice had elements of Paul McCartney. There’s another Beatles tie-in for you. And he also likened his voice to Steve Marriott. And he said the Razz Berries were a killer band when it came to playing live shows. We also got a simple note from Slash of Guns N’ Roses. He sent out a basic rest in peace call out to Carmen. And…

Even Stephen King chimed in, which this one kind of caught me off guard. I wasn’t expecting it, but Stephen King told us that Razz Berries were the best power pop group ever and that the loss of Carmen really hurts.

Chris (26:55.241)

And Stephen King has played in a band. He’s a pretty heavy duty rocker himself. We have lots of content about this on cleveland.com. As people heard about his death, I think everybody did what Lisa did. They just thought back to how much his music meant to a mature Clevelander. It’ll be interesting to see whether the rock hall does some kind of tribute because he is 100% Cleveland and the rock hall is in Cleveland. We’ll see.

You’re listening to Today in Ohio. We’ll give you back a few minutes. Come back on Wednesday or Thursday. We’ll be talking about some more news. Thanks Lisa, Laura and Courtney. Thank you for listening.