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Comedian Ronny Chieng is thankful he never got a job out of law school

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Comedian Ronny Chieng is thankful he never got a job out of law school

A note from Wild Card host Rachel Martin: When you’ve watched Ronny Chieng’s comedy, it becomes pretty clear he’s a guy who takes none of his success for granted. He knows life could have turned out differently. What were the odds that a twenty-something Chinese Malaysian guy trying to launch a comedy career after law school in Australia would make it big in America? Whatever the odds were, Ronny Chieng beat them to become one of the biggest names in comedy.

He’s been a regular correspondent on The Daily Show since 2015 and is now a rotating host. He absolutely crushes his role as Jimmy O. Yang’s best friend in the Hulu show Interior Chinatown. And he’s got his third Netflix comedy special out now called Ronny Chieng: Love to Hate It, which made me laugh so hard I started recommending it to anyone within earshot.

The comedy in his specials is rooted in personal experience and observation, but this one is especially so. From stories about the challenges and absurdity of IVF to his dad’s death, he weaves in and out of these intimate places in the most hilarious way possible.

Throw in some razor-sharp observations about masculinity and YouTube in the Trump era, and boom! You got yourself an epic comedic journey well worth the ride.

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The trailer for “Ronny Chieng: Speakeasy.”

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This Wild Card interview has been edited for length and clarity. Host Rachel Martin asks guests randomly selected questions from a deck of cards. Tap play above to listen to the full podcast, or read an excerpt below.

Question 1: How do you consciously try to emulate your parents?

Ronny Chieng: I don’t think anything is that impressive. [laughs]

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That’s how I mimic them because they’re not easily impressed by much — but in a good way. So, I think in that way I try to see reality the way they see it, where they’re like, “Oh yeah, this is not that big of a deal. This is not that big of an achievement.” [laughs]

Rachel Martin: I think that would be helpful in your line of work, actually, because there is the risk that things spiral and all of a sudden, you think you’re really awesome.

Chieng: Yeah, yeah. It keeps you working to pursue perfection, right? You never think you’ve achieved it, so it’s good.

Martin: Did that ever cut the other way for you growing up? Like, if you did a thing and you wanted them to be proud of you and they were like, “Hmm?”

Chieng: I don’t know. I don’t think I was that impressive a kid. I didn’t have that many great achievements anyway, so I don’t feel like they wronged me by not being impressed. So, no, I don’t. I was like, “Yeah.” I was like, “You’re right. It’s not that impressive.” [laughs]

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Martin: And do you find that people in your line of work are constantly seeking that kind of affirmation? Do you find yourself falling into that trap?

Chieng: You know, my line of work being stand-up comedy — undoubtedly, we seek affirmation through a crowd response to our jokes, right?

We are looking for a good reaction to a joke, specifically laughter. So, in that way our integrity is compromised.

But we don’t believe in our own marketing. Someone told me, “The best comics think that their material is bad.” And there’s something to that, I think. I don’t know any great comic who’s like, “Oh, my material is the best in the world,” you know?

You’re always looking at other comics and going, “Man, that guy’s really funny. I need to write a better bit,” you know? You never feel like you have the greatest joke in the world. You’re always impressed by someone else’s joke. That’s how I feel, anyway.

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Jimmy O. Yang (left) and Ronny Chieng (R) at the premiere of Hulu's "Interior Chinatown."

Jimmy O. Yang (left) and Ronny Chieng (R) at the premiere of Hulu’s “Interior Chinatown.”

Valerie Macon/AFP


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Valerie Macon/AFP

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Question 2: What was a disappointing experience that now feels like a blessing?

Chieng: I couldn’t get a job coming out of law school. My grades were too bad, and I couldn’t get hired. And everyone around me was getting jobs because I went to a very good law school, so everyone around me was these very hyper-competitive type-A people who were getting really good jobs at these big law firms. And I felt a little left out at the time.

But in hindsight, I’m like, “Oh man, I’m so glad I never got hired,” because I think it would have been more difficult for me to quit a job and do comedy. As it was, I just — I didn’t have anything to lose, so I could just do comedy. It wasn’t like I had to pick between comedy and a corporate job. I was just not smart enough like my wife. I went to law school with my wife and she’s like a genius. Her grades are amazing. She got all these job offers. But I couldn’t get a single one.

Martin: So, were your parents disappointed that that didn’t pan out for you?

Chieng: No, they weren’t because I never told them.

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Martin: What do you mean?

Chieng: I didn’t tell them I was doing comedy. They thought I was studying for the bar exam, which I was in fairness. But at that time, I was just doing comedy. And by the time they found out, it was almost too late.

Martin: Wait, that’s awesome. So you just led this separate life — assuming you were in a good enough place that when they found out, they weren’t traumatized. You’re like, “I’m a comedian — and I can pay my rent. So it’s okay?”

Chieng: Yeah. They only found out honestly when I got hired on The Daily Show.

Martin: Wow. Did they know what The Daily Show was?

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Chieng: No, they didn’t know what it was, but after I told them I got hired, they googled it, they found out all about it, they were like, “Oh, you know, this is an important show, this is a very famous show,” and I’m like, “Yeah, I know, I know.”

They kind of trained me to be like, you know, it’s just an opportunity. It doesn’t mean you’re good. [laughs] It just means you have a chance to do something cool, right? Like that’s what it was, so that’s what I took it for. And that’s really what the strength of being on The Daily Show is. Like, more so than fame or whatever, it’s like this opportunity to work with extremely talented people and really become better yourself. Because everyone at that show is so good at their jobs that you don’t want to be the weakest link. And so you lift your game. So, that’s why it’s the best job in comedy. It makes you a better writer, performer, comedian, satirist, you know? That show is — it’s like the Harvard Business School of comedy.

Ronny Chieng on “The Daily Show.”

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Question 3: How have your feelings about death changed over time?

Chieng: Oh, yeah. It’s become more real. It used to be this kind of conceptual abstract, right? And then it’s become very real the last couple of years, seeing it up close. It becoming more real was kind of frightening. I was studying Buddhism recently, and there was this very interesting concept that I’m going to butcher because I’m going to give you the Cliff Notes of it in, like, five seconds. But the idea was something like: we are a different person in every moment, anyway. Our thoughts are different. Our cellular makeup is different in every second, every moment. Meaning — we are different people in every second of every moment anyway. So, the concept of “me” doesn’t really exist because I’m constantly changing anyway.

And so when I die, it doesn’t matter because I never really existed. So that is kind of like the Buddhist answer — one of the Buddhist answers — to that.

Martin: I like that idea. Does that mean that when a person dies, you think that it’s just another transition, or are they gone?

Chieng: I think that, unfortunately, as a person observing someone dying, that person is gone. I’m just talking about me, personally — for me to come to terms with my own mortality. That’s how I view it anyway — that I never really existed. I’m different every moment, so if I go, that’s just another change, right? Dealing with other people, that’s tough. I think that requires a different concept.

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The Best of BoF 2025: A Tough Year for Luxury

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The Best of BoF 2025: A Tough Year for Luxury
High-end brands struggled to shake the gloom, with no sign of a rebound in view. Yet bright patches have emerged, with fresh energy from creative revamps, investor confidence in Kering’s new CEO and outperformance of labels like Hermes, Brunello Cucinelli and Prada.
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Feeling cooped up? Get out of town with this delightful literary road trip

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Feeling cooped up? Get out of town with this delightful literary road trip

Tom Layward, the narrator and main character of Ben Markovits’ new novel, The Rest of Our Lives, introduces himself in a curious way: On the very first page of the book, he talks, matter-of-factly, about the affair his wife, Amy, had 12 years ago, when their two kids were young.

Amy, who’s Jewish, got involved at a local synagogue in Westchester; Tom, who was raised Catholic and is clearly not a joiner, remained on the sidelines. At the synagogue, Amy met Zach Zirsky, who Tom describes as “the kind of guy who danced with all the old ladies and little pigtailed girls at a bar mitzvah, so he could also put his arm around the pretty mothers and nobody would complain.”

After the affair came out, Tom and Amy decided to stay together for the kids: a boy named Michael and his younger sister, Miriam. But, Tom tells us “I also made a deal with myself. When Miriam goes to college you can leave, too.” The deal, Tom says, “helped me get through the first few months … [when] we had to pretend that everything was fine.”

Twelve years have since passed and the marriage has settled back into a state of OK-ness. Miriam, now 18, is starting college in Pittsburgh and because Amy is having a tough time with Miriam’s departure, Tom alone drives her to campus.

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And, once Tom drops Miriam off, he just keeps driving, westward; without explanation to us or to himself; as though he’s a passenger in a driverless car that has decided to carry him across “the mighty Allegheny” and keep on going.

The three-page scene where Tom passively melds into the trans-continental traffic flow constitutes a master class on how to write about a character who is opaque to himself. “[Y]ou don’t feel anything about anything,” Amy says early on to Tom — an accusation that’s pretty much echoed by Tom’s old college girlfriend, Jill, whom he spontaneously drops in on at her home in Las Vegas, after being out of touch for roughly 30 years.

But, if Tom is distanced from his own feelings (and vague about the “issue” he had “with a couple of students” that forced him to take a leave from teaching in law school), he’s a sharp diagnostician of other people’s behavior. What fuels this road trip is Tom’s voice — by turns, wry, mournful and, oh-so-casually, astute.

There’s a strain of Richard Ford and John Updike in Tom’s tone, which I mean as a high compliment. Take, for instance, how Tom chats to us readers about a married couple who are old friends of his and Amy’s:

[Chrissie] was maybe one of those women who derives secret energy from the troubles of her friends. Her husband, Dick, was a perfectly good guy, about six-two, fat and healthy. He worked for an online tech platform. I really don’t know what he did.

So might most of us be summed up for posterity.

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As Tom racks up miles, taking detours to visit other folks out of his past, like his semi-estranged brother, his meandering road trip accrues in suspense. There’s something else he’s subconsciously speeding away from here besides his marriage. Tom tells us at the outset that he’s suffering from symptoms his doctors ascribe to long COVID: dizziness and morning face swelling so severe that daughter Miriam jokingly calls him “Puff Daddy.” Shortly after he reaches the Pacific, Tom also lands in the hospital. “Getting out of the hospital,” Tom dryly comments, “is like escaping a casino, they don’t make it easy for you.”

The canon of road trip stories in American literature is vast, even more so if you count other modes of transportation besides cars — like, say, rafts. But, the most memorable road trips, like The Rest of Our Lives, notice the easy-to-miss signposts — marking life forks in the road and looming mortality — that make the journey itself everything.

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Behind this wealthy SoCal neighborhood, you can soak in a rustic hot spring oasis

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Behind this wealthy SoCal neighborhood, you can soak in a rustic hot spring oasis
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The water bubbles up hot from the earth and sunlight filters down through the branches of mighty oaks.

But before you can soak in Santa Barbara County’s highly popular Montecito Hot Springs, you’ll need to hike a little over a mile uphill, threading your way among boulders, oaks and a meandering creek. And before the hike, there are two other crucial steps: getting to the trailhead and knowing what to expect.

The trail to Montecito Hot Springs.

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These rustic spring pools are about 95 miles northwest of L.A. City Hall, just upslope from well-to-do Montecito, whose residents include Oprah Winfrey, Prince Harry and his wife, Meghan Markle, and Gwyneth Paltrow.

Though the trail and hot springs are part of Los Padres National Forest, the trailhead is in a residential neighborhood of gated mansions. Beyond the trailhead parking area (which has room for eight or nine cars), the neighborhood includes very little curbside parking. After visitation surged during the pandemic, some neighbors were accused by county officials of placing boulders to obstruct public parking. Parking options were reduced further when county officials added parking restrictions earlier this year.

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Bottom line: Unless you can arrive on a weekday between 8 and 10 a.m., you’re probably better off taking a rideshare service to get there. Whenever you arrive, you’re likely to have company. And you might want to wait until the landscape dries out a bit from the rains of recent weeks.

As Los Padres National Forest spokesman Andrew Madsen warned, “the foothills of Santa Barbara are especially fragile and hiking is especially precarious in the aftermath of heavy rains.”

All that said, the hike is rewarding and free. From the Hot Springs Canyon trailhead at East Mountain Drive and Riven Rock Road, it’s a 2.5-mile out-and-back trail to the hot springs, with about 800 feet of altitude gain on the way.

Arriving at 10 a.m. on a Tuesday, I got the last parking spot at the trailhead, stepped past the signs forbidding parking before 8 a.m. or after sunset, then stepped past another sign warning that “this is a challenging and rugged hike.” Also, there are no bathrooms or trash cans on the trail or at the springs.

“It’s important that people know what’s going on up there before they show up,” said Madsen. “It’s not all that glamorous.”

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Even though it’s only 1.2 or 1.3 miles to the hot springs, plan on about an hour of uphill hiking. Once you’re above the residential lots, you’ll see pipes along the way, carrying water down the hill, along with occasional trailside poison oak. As you near the pools, you’ll pick up the scent of sulfur and notice the water turning a strange bluish hue. Then the trail jumps across the creek — which I initially missed.

But there was a silver lining. That detour gave me a chance to admire the stone ruins of a hotel that was built next to the springs in 1870s. After a fire, it became a private club. Then it burned in the Coyote fire of 1964, which blackened more than 65,000 acres, destroyed more than 90 homes and killed a firefighter. The hot springs and surrounding land have been part of Los Padres National Forest since 2013.

Hikers look west over flowers and greenery from behind low stone ruins near Montecito Hot Springs.

Hikers look west from the ruins near Montecito Hot Springs.

(Christopher Reynolds / Los Angeles Times)

On a clear day with the sun in the right place, you can stand among the overgrown ruins, look west and see the ocean, a few old oil platforms and the long, low silhouette of Santa Cruz Island. This is what the native Chumash would have seen (minus the oil platforms) through the many years they used the springs before European immigrants arrived.

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Pleasant as that view was, I was ready to soak, as were the two couples who got momentarily lost with me. (We were all Montecito Hot Springs rookies.) Once we’d retraced our steps to the creek and crossed it, the trail took us quickly past a hand-lettered CLOTHING OPTIONAL sign to a series of spring-fed pools of varying temperatures.

A dozen people were already lazing in and around the uppermost pools (one woman topless, one man bottomless), but several pools remained empty. I took one that was about 2 feet deep and perhaps 90 degrees. In one pool near me sat Ryan Binter, 30, and Kyra Rubinstein, 26, both from Wichita, Kan.

Hikers Ryan Binter and Kyra Rubinstein soak at Montecito Hot Springs.

Hikers Ryan Binter and Kyra Rubinstein, visiting from Wichita, Kan., soak at Montecito Hot Springs.

(Christopher Reynolds / Los Angeles Times)

“She found this,” said Binter, praising Rubinstein’s internet search savvy.

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At the next pool were Emanuel Leon, 20, of Carpinteria, Calif., and Evelyn Torres, 19, of Santa Barbara. The last time they’d tried this hike, they’d strayed off-track and missed the hot springs, so this time, they were savoring the scene.

“Revenge!” said Leon, settling in.

The soaking was so mellow, quiet and unhurried that I was surprised to learn that the pools were not erected legally. As Madsen of the Los Padres National Forest explained later by phone, they were “created by the trail gnomes” — hikers arranging rocks themselves to adjust water flow and temperature, with no government entities involved.

Legal or not, they made a nice reward after the hike uphill. The downhill hike out was easier and quicker, of course, but still tricky because of the rocks and twisting trail.

On your way out of Montecito, especially if it’s your first time, take a good look at the adobe-style grandeur of the Our Lady of Mt. Carmel Catholic Church building, which looks like it was smuggled into California from Santa Fe. For food and drink, head to Coast Village Road (the community’s main drag) or the Montecito Village Shopping Center on East Valley Road. Those shops and restaurants may not match the wonder and comfort of a natural bath in the woods, but for civilization, they’re not bad.

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