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Ani DiFranco wants you to know she's more than a '90s feminist cult icon : Wild Card with Rachel Martin

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Ani DiFranco wants you to know she's more than a '90s feminist cult icon : Wild Card with Rachel Martin

Ani DiFranco says part of her feels she still has to prove herself.

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Ani DiFranco says part of her feels she still has to prove herself.

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A note from Wild Card host Rachel Martin: It’s hard to overstate just how important Ani DiFranco was to me in a particular chapter of my life. That chapter being the one right after college. My boyfriend of two years, which is an eternity at that age, had moved across the country to live with his parents while he figured out what to do with his life. And it slowly became clear to me that he had started a new relationship.

I was obviously heartbroken and I was angry. And the only thing that made me feel better was Ani DiFranco. I would just blast her album Dilate as loud as I could without pissing off my neighbors and sing my guts out to these feminist anthems, which in one moment could be really tender and stripped down and then in an instant they could be angry and messy.

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And that’s how I felt. DiFranco’s was the only voice that was real enough to represent all of those feelings at the same time.

DiFranco ends up hearing stories like this a lot. And it’s not that she resents that people remember her this way. It’s just that she wants to be more than a ’90s feminist cult icon.

And she’s put a lot of work into proving that.

In the last year alone, a documentary about her life and career came out, she released her 23rd album, and, when I talked with her a few months ago, she was in New York singing and dancing her way through her role as Persephone in the musical Hadestown.

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Ani DiFranco Sings “Our Lady of the Underground” from Hadestown on Broadway.

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This Wild Card interview has been edited for length and clarity. Host Rachel Martin asks guests randomly-selected questions from a deck of cards. Tap play above to listen to the full podcast, or read an excerpt below.

Question 1: What’s a place that shaped you as much as any person did?

DiFranco: New York City. I came here when I was 18 and I was just in shock. I came from Buffalo. And I mean, Buffalo is a real city. It’s a little hard-knock, Rust Belt town. The Buffalo I grew up in was economically struggling. It wasn’t like New York City was my first rodeo. But, wow. Still eye opening in so many ways.

I saw a lot of suffering around me, which made me cry every day. Every day. And I was sort of a smiley kid and it’s like, “Wipe that smile off your face and get it together. This is hardcore.” I showed up with hair down below my shoulders and within a few months of living in New York I shaved it. As in, “Go away.”

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Martin: The thing I love is that you were someone who craved intimacy so much. But you were building this barrier by shaving your head. So all you want to do is aggressively make eye contact with people, share some intimacy. But everyone’s looking at you like, “No, you look super scary!”

DiFranco: Yeah. That was really radical to scare people as a 5 foot 2 female. You know, that was pretty thrilling. Everyone should try it.

Martin: There is power in that.

DiFranco: Yeah. And when you have zero power, that can be useful. But, yeah totally, I’m a completely open, heart-on-sleeve little creature. And I was learning a lot of survival skills, but the little moments, when somebody would meet my eye or say something, I would carry those for days and weeks, like medicine.

Question 2: What is something you think you still have to prove to people you meet?

DiFranco: Ooh. I think at this point, I feel like I have to prove that I still have more. That I’m not done, you know? I get a lot of, “I loved you in the ’90s!” Or, you know, “In high school…” and we’re both 50. I have made 15 records since they got off. And I think some of my new records are some of my best.

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I guess a part of me, maybe on some level, feels I have to prove I’m not done. I’m not a singer from the ’90s. I’m right here and I’m still making art.

Ani DiFranco performs at the 2024 Tribeca Film Festival in June.

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Question 3: How do you stay connected to people you’ve lost?

DiFranco: Well, I guess my mind immediately went to death and first to my father who was my guy, you know, and I was his. For many years it was through dreams. I firmly know in my body and my spirit and my soul that death is not an ending of consciousness. That these bodies that contain us are temporary, but that our spirits live on. So I felt like my actual relationship with my father lived on after his body was no longer. I felt our interactions in dreams were not just memories or imaginings, but continued conversation.

Martin: Yeah, I get that.

DiFranco: And then, weirdly, if I can get even more spooky about it, at some point those dreams kind of dissipated. And I was thinking, “Where’d you go, dad?” And then I turned to my son, who’s 10 now, and I was like, “There you are. I’ve been climbing trees with you for the last five years.”

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I named my son Dante, which is my father’s name, before I even knew if it was a boy. I just decided this baby was Dante and that’s gonna be weird if it’s a girl and we’re gonna get a lot of looks. And then out he came and he looked, like, so like my father. And my relationship with my son is so like my relationship with my father. Our love, our bond, our understanding of each other, the way we make each other laugh.

On some level I had this revelation that, “Oh, you came back in some way in this new body to hang out with me again.” And this is what we’re doing. So that’s the most profound example I could give.

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Out of work and with 2 teens, this mom may lose food stamps under Trump’s changes

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Out of work and with 2 teens, this mom may lose food stamps under Trump’s changes

Mara is a single mother of two in Minnesota. She and her family have depended on SNAP benefits to make ends meet.

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Caroline Yang for NPR

Although Mara is unemployed, she is busier than ever.

When she is not taking care of her two children, Mara is at her desk applying for jobs. She is surveying her belongings to see what she can pawn off to buy toiletries. Or she is sifting through bills, calculating which ones can wait and which need to be paid right away.

Soon, Mara, a single mom in Minnesota, may have another task on her busy schedule: figuring out how to afford food for her and her family.

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That’s because of new work requirements for people receiving aid from the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, also known as SNAP or food stamps.

“It would be so beyond hard” to lose SNAP benefits, Mara said. “Without SNAP, there’s no funds for food.” Mara asked for her last name to be withheld given the stigma tied to receiving government assistance. She is also worried that speaking publicly will affect her chances of getting a job.

Previously, SNAP recipients with children under 18 were exempt from work requirements mandating that recipients work, volunteer or participate in job training at least 80 hours a month. But now, under President Trump’s One Big Beautiful Bill Act, that exemption only applies to those with children under 14 — which is how old Mara’s youngest child turned in December.

Mara poses for a portrait at CareerForce, a resource for job seekers in Minnesota.

“It would be so beyond hard” to lose SNAP benefits, Mara said.

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The Trump administration has argued that the mission of the nation’s largest anti-hunger program has failed.

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“SNAP was intended to be temporary help for those who encounter tough times. Now, it’s become so bloated that it is leaving fewer resources for those who truly need help,” the White House said in a statement in June.

But policy experts say the SNAP changes do not fully take into account the unique challenges faced by single parents like Mara or the sluggish job market in many parts of the country. They argue that losing food assistance will only create more barriers for recipients struggling to find work.

The timeline for implementing the new SNAP policy varies based on state and county. In Mara’s home state of Minnesota, recipients who don’t qualify for an exemption or meet work requirements will be at risk of losing assistance as early as April 1. Others may have more months depending on when they next need to certify they are eligible for benefits.

Over 100 job applications

Mara imagined she would have a job by now.

It was August when she was let go from her part-time administrative assistant role due to her workplace restructuring. Since then, Mara estimates that she has applied for over 100 positions. She has also attended job fairs and taken free workshops on resume writing.

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She has been working since high school, she said, but “ I’ve never been out of work for more than one month, so it’s very difficult.”

Mara spends time working at the computer at CareerForce, a resource for job seekers in Minnesota, on March 4.

Mara spends time working at the computer at CareerForce, a resource for job seekers in Minnesota, on March 4.

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Caroline Yang for NPR

Although she misses her old job, Mara said it didn’t pay enough to support her and her kids, so she relied on SNAP benefits.

Many recipients are part of the low-wage labor market, where job security is often unpredictable and turnover tends to be high, according to Lauren Bauer, a researcher at the Brookings Institution who has studied SNAP extensively.

“SNAP is supposed to be there to help people smooth that and not let the bottom fall out when they experience job loss,” she said. “And this policy doesn’t account for that at all.”

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Mara’s lowest point came in November when the government shutdown led to disruptions in SNAP benefits. Not only was she searching for a new job, but she was constantly figuring out where to get her family’s next meal.

“I might be looking for food stuff during the day when I should have been looking for a job,” she said. “Then, I’m trying to make up that time in the evening after my kids go to bed.”

During the pause, Mara turned to food banks, which revealed other challenges. First, food pantries do not always provide enough for an adult and two growing teenagers, she said. Second, they often lack gluten-free foods, which is essential for her daughter who has celiac disease, an autoimmune disorder that causes digestive problems if gluten is consumed. Gluten-free products tend to be more expensive.

If Mara loses access to SNAP again because of the new work requirements, she fears another stretch of long days spent looking for the right food and enough to feed her family.

“I would be so reliant on looking for food shelves or food banks,” she said. “There would not be time to even live.”

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“We’re going to see increases in poverty. We’re going to see increases in food insecurity”

The Congressional Budget Office estimates that roughly 2.4 million people will lose food benefits in a typical month over the next decade as a result of the new SNAP requirements — including 300,000 parents like Mara with children 14 or older.

Gina Plata-Nino, the SNAP director at the nonprofit Food Research & Action Center, says many of the affected recipients will be single mothers who make up a majority of single parent households in the U.S. She added that the changes target a group that often lacks or struggles to afford a support system to help care for their children.

“How can they have a full-time job when they need to pick up their children [for] various activities?” she said. “And they are working — just not enough hours because they need to be there present for their children.”

Mara shops for groceries at a local discount grocery store.

Mara shops for groceries at a local discount grocery store.

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The new law also imposes work requirements on veterans, homeless people, young adults aging out of foster care, and able-bodied adults without dependents from ages 55 to 64.

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It also toughened the criteria for waiving work requirements for recipients in areas with high unemployment. Previously, there were multiple ways to determine a weak labor market and secure a waiver. Now, it only applies to places with an unemployment rate above 10%. (Alaska and Hawaii have a different measure.)

For those who fail to meet the work requirement, SNAP provides assistance for up to three months within a three-year span. But Bauer from the Brookings Institution argues that it is not enough and the impact of SNAP changes will be widespread.

“We’re going to see increases in poverty. We’re going to see increases in food insecurity. We’re going to see increasing strain on the charitable food sector,” she said.

Mara holds her favorite anchor ring, which carries the inscription, "God for me provide thee."

Mara holds her favorite anchor ring, which carries the inscription, “God for me provide thee.”

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As anxiety hangs over her head, Mara tries to put on a brave face for her children. She does not want them to worry, explaining that her recent struggles have reminded her how tough life can get as an adult.

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“I remind them it’s not their responsibility and they’re not accountable for me or for what’s happening,” she said. “I say, just know you get to be a kid.”

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‘TODAY’ Show Dylan Dreyer Says Savannah Guthrie Will Likely Return, Not Sure When

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‘TODAY’ Show Dylan Dreyer Says Savannah Guthrie Will Likely Return, Not Sure When

Dylan Dreyer
Savannah Will Likely Come Back … Just Not Sure When

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‘American Classic’ is a hidden gem that gets even better as it goes

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‘American Classic’ is a hidden gem that gets even better as it goes

Kevin Kline plays actor Richard Bean, and Laura Linney is his sister-in-law Kristen, in American Classic.

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American Classic is a hidden gem, in more ways than one. It’s hidden because it’s on MGM+, a stand-alone streaming service that, let’s face it, most people don’t have. But MGM+ is available without subscription for a seven-day free trial, on its website or through Prime Video and Roku. And you should find and watch American Classic, because it’s an absolutely charming and wonderful TV jewel.

Charming, in the way it brings small towns and ordinary people to life, as in Northern Exposure. Wonderful, in the way it reflects the joys of local theater productions, as in Slings & Arrows, and the American Playhouse production of Kurt Vonnegut’s Who Am I This Time?

The creators of American Classic are Michael Hoffman and Bob Martin. Martin co-wrote and co-created Slings & Arrows, so that comparison comes easily. And back in the early 1980s, Who Am I This Time? was about people who transformed onstage from ordinary citizens into extraordinary performers. It’s a conceit that works only if you have brilliant actors to bring it to life convincingly. That American Playhouse production had two young actors — Christopher Walken and Susan Sarandon — so yes, it worked. And American Classic, with its mix of veteran and young actors, does, too.

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American Classic begins with Kevin Kline, as Shakespearean actor Richard Bean, confronting a New York Times drama critic about his negative opening-night review of Richard’s King Lear. The next day, Richard’s agent, played by Tony Shalhoub, calls Richard in to tell him his tantrum was captured by cellphone and went viral, and that he has to lay low for a while.

Richard returns home to the small town of Millersburg, Pa., where his parents ran a local theater. Almost everyone we meet is a treasure. His father, who has bouts of dementia, is played by Len Cariou, who starred on Broadway in Sweeney Todd. Richard’s brother, Jon, is played by Jon Tenney of The Closer, and his wife, Kristen, is played by the great Laura Linney, from Ozark and John Adams.

Things get even more complicated because the old theater is now a dinner theater, filling its schedule with performances by touring regional companies. Its survival is at risk, so Richard decides to save the theater by mounting a new production of Thornton Wilder’s Our Town, casting the local small-town residents to play … local small-town residents.

Miranda, Richard’s college-bound niece, continues the family theatrical tradition — and Nell Verlaque, the young actress who plays her, has a breakout role here. She’s terrific — funny, touching, totally natural. And when she takes the stage as Emily in Our Town, she’s heart-wrenching. Playwright Wilder is served magnificently here — and so is William Shakespeare, whose works and words Kline tackles in more than one inspirational scene in this series.

I don’t want to reveal too much about the conflicts, and surprises, in American Classic, but please trust me: The more episodes you watch, the better it gets. The characters evolve, and go in unexpected directions and pairings. Kline’s Richard starts out thinking about only himself, but ends up just the opposite. And if, as Shakespeare wrote, the play’s the thing, the thing here is, the plays we see, and the soliloquies we hear, are spellbinding.

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And there’s plenty of fun to be had outside the classics in American Classic. The table reads are the most delightful since the ones in Only Murders in the Building. The dinner-table arguments are the most explosive since the ones in The Bear. Some scenes are take-your-breath-away dramatic. Others are infectiously silly, as when Richard works with a cast member forced upon him by the angel of this new Our Town production.

Take the effort to find, and watch, American Classic. It’ll remind you why, when it’s this good, it’s easy to love the theater. And television.

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