Lifestyle
A Chinese and a Taiwanese comedian walk into a bar …
Comedians Vickie Wang (left) and Jamie Wang have no relation, yet create comedy over the cross-strait tensions between China and Taiwan.
An Rong Xu for NPR
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An Rong Xu for NPR
Comedians Vickie Wang (left) and Jamie Wang have no relation, yet create comedy over the cross-strait tensions between China and Taiwan.
An Rong Xu for NPR
TAIPEI, Taiwan — Vickie Wang calls Jamie Wang her “mirror sister.”
No, they are not related, but they share an inverse history.
Vickie, who’s originally from Taipei, Taiwan, spent about a decade living in Shanghai, where she began her stand-up comedy career, notably under Chinese censorship. Jamie, who’s from Shanghai, came across the Taiwan Strait and fell into a stand-up career in Taiwan.
They both met at the bar in a bilingual comedy club, tucked inside Taipei’s red-light district and began performing together. Their recent show, A Night of Cross-Strait Comedy, was so well-received that their friends suggested they start touring together.
Vickie jokes that if they were to tour together it would feel like something of a “peace and reconciliation tour. Like we’re trying to bridge cross-strait tensions, one d**k joke at a time.”
Vickie Wang (left) is from Taipei, Taiwan, and Jamie Wang is from Shanghai, China.
An Rong Xu for NPR
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An Rong Xu for NPR
Vickie Wang (left) is from Taipei, Taiwan, and Jamie Wang is from Shanghai, China.
An Rong Xu for NPR
For Vickie and Jamie, comedy is an effective way to remind their audiences that the tense relationship between the two governments doesn’t mean there should be tension between Taiwanese and Chinese people.
They spoke to All Things Considered host Ailsa Chang at the very bar where they first met.
This interview has been lightly edited for length and clarity.
Interview highlights
On both of their comedy sets confronting the stereotypes Taiwanese people have of Chinese people.
Vickie Wang: I grew up thinking that people in mainland China are not to be trusted, that they spit, and that they’re really aggressive and they’re not, like, polite and civilized like Taiwanese people. And it took years in Shanghai to consciously undo that kind of stereotype and prejudice.
Jamie Wang: Basically, like, [Chinese people] are the worst people in the world. Like, we’re easily offended. We’re all brainwashed. And we love money and we look down on, I don’t know, people who are poor.
On the stereotypes Chinese people have of Taiwanese people.
J Wang: I think people kind of have this stereotype about Taiwanese where they’re, like, villagers because they live on a small island and they haven’t seen much of the world. They’re very backwards.
On Chinese citizens having fewer rights in Taiwan than other residents of the island, despite technically belonging to the same “country.”
J Wang: Because I’m a Chinese student here, there’s a lot of unfair regulation towards us. Like, Chinese students are the only international students who cannot work here. Luckily, this February, Chinese people can have health insurance in Taiwan now. But for the past seven years, I couldn’t. [Most] Chinese people are also not allowed to work here, so there’s no way for Chinese people to stay and live and work in Taiwan unless, like, you get married to a Taiwanese citizen.
On the differences between performing in Taiwan and China.
V Wang: When I first started doing stand-up in China, I was immediately briefed on the three Ts: Tibet, Tiananmen Square and Taiwan. These are hard red lines that we’re not supposed to talk about. It’s interesting. It means that I can’t talk about politics. I can’t really talk about LGBTQ issues. I compare it to having your arm in a cast — over time, the muscles atrophy. And once you’re out of the cast, you need to build back the strength. And that’s kind of what I’m doing now. Now that I’m not living in China anymore, right now, I’m also revenge bingeing on democracy and freedom of speech. I’m really enjoying being able to say whatever I want.
On the consequences of Jamie’s comedy going viral, as a Chinese citizen who could face repercussions due to Chinese censorship.
J Wang: I posted two jokes, and they were all viral, obviously because I’m very funny. But one of the jokes touched the fine line. And I thought it was OK, but a lot of Chinese people were trolling me on the internet. I also received death threats. Trolls DMd me, they were like, “I’m going to kill you.” And I’m like, “You can’t. Because you can’t get a visa here.” I don’t think you can ever be free as long as you are Chinese.
V Wang: There are a lot of things that I can say that Jamie can’t say. And I don’t want to speak over my Chinese friends, but I’m also very aware that, like, there’s things that I have to amplify for them. And in the meantime, I can also call out my own people. Ever since COVID started, I had Taiwanese friends on my Facebook feed who were saying things like, “Oh, yeah, they deserve it. These commies, they deserve a plague on their house.” And I was so, so devastated to feel, like, oh my God, my people, who I’d like to think are generally decent, kind people, have so dehumanized this other population that they’ve never actually encountered. And, you know, I feel like having both of us on stage performing together, I hope that somehow bridges the gap.
On the power of comedy to help people deal with tense issues.
J Wang: I think comedy is a very powerful thing ’cause it’s not, like, a debate. Comedy is like, “I make you like me. I make you feel weird together. And then let me tell you what I have to say.” I think it’s a very non-hostile, very friendly way to make people listen to you.
V Wang: When someone laughs with you, it’s the closest thing you get to changing someone’s mind. When you’re laughing with someone, it means you — in that moment — you get their perspective. To a degree, you agree with them. It’s a very proactive kind of empathy. And it’s a very joyful kind of empathy. Like, the world’s on fire. I think that’s the best thing we can do, is to make jokes about it. I just still struggle to make everything funny. I’ll get there. I’ll figure it out, or Jamie will first.
Lifestyle
‘Everything I knew burned down around me’: A journalist looks back on LA’s fires
A firefighter works as homes burn during the Eaton fire in the Altadena area of Los Angeles County, Calif., on Jan. 7, 2025.
Josh Edelson/AFP via Getty Images
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Josh Edelson/AFP via Getty Images
On New Year’s Eve 2024, journalist Jacob Soboroff was sitting around a campfire with a friend when he made an offhand comment that would come back to haunt him: The last thing he wanted to do in the new year, Soboroff said, was cover a story that would require donning a fire-safe yellow suit.
Just one week later, Soboroff was dressed in the yellow suit, reporting live from a street corner in Los Angeles as fire tore through the Pacific Palisades, the community where he was raised.
“This was a place that I could navigate with my eyes closed,” Soboroff says of the neighborhood. “Every hallmark of my childhood I was watching carbonize in front of me. … There were firefighters there and first responders and other journalists there, but it was an extremely lonely, isolating experience to be standing there as everything I knew burned down around me in real time.”

In his new book, Firestorm: The Great Los Angeles Fires and America’s New Age of Disaster, Soboroff offers a minute-by-minute account of the catastrophe, told through the voices of firefighters, evacuees, scientists and political leaders. He says covering the wildfires was the most important assignment he’s ever undertaken.
“The experience of doing this is something that I don’t wish on anybody, but in a way I wish everybody could experience,” he says. “It’s given me insane reverence for our colleagues in the local news community here, who, I think, definitionally were exercising a public service in the street-level journalism that they were doing and are still doing. … It was actually beautiful to watch because they are as much a first responder on a frontline as anybody else.”
Interview highlights
On the experience of reporting from the fires
You’re choking with the smoke. And I almost feel guilty describing it from my vantage point because the firefighters would say things to me like: “My eyeballs were burning. We were laying flat on our stomach in the middle of the concrete street because it was so hot, it was the only way that we could open the hoses full bore and try to save anything that we could.” …
I could feel the heat on the back of my neck as we stood in front of these houses that I remember as the houses that cars and people would line up in front of for the annual Fourth of July parade or the road race that we would run through town. Trees were on fire behind us — we were at risk of structures falling at any given minute. It was pretty surreal because this is a place I had spent so much time as a child and going back to as an adult. … I had no choice but to just open my mouth and say what I saw to the millions of people that were watching us around the country.
On undocumented immigrants being central to rebuilding the city

These types of massive both humanitarian and natural disasters give us X-ray vision for a time into sort of the fissures that are underneath the surface in our society. And Los Angeles, in addition to being one of the most unequal cities between the rich and the poor, has more undocumented people than virtually any other city in the United States of America. Governor Newsom knew that with the policies of the incoming administration, some of the very people that would be responsible for the cleanup and the rebuilding of Los Angeles may end up in the crosshairs of national immigration policy. And I think that that was an understatement. …
Pablo Alvarado in the National Day Laborer Organizing Network said to me that often the first people into a disaster — the second responders after the first — are the day laborers. They went to Florida after Hurricane Andrew, to New Orleans after Katrina, and they’d be ready to go in Los Angeles. And I went out and I cleaned up Altadena and Pasadena with some of them in real time.
And only months later did this wide-scale immigration enforcement campaign begin … on the streets of LA as sort of the Petri dish, the guinea pig for expanding this across the country. And it’s not an exaggeration to say that the parking lots of Home Depots, where workers [were] looking to get involved in the rebuilding of Los Angeles, has been ground zero for that enforcement campaign.
On efforts to rebuild
The pace is slow and it’s sort of a hopscotch of development. And I think for people who do come back, for people who can afford to come back, it’s going to be a long road ahead. You’re going to have half the houses on your street under construction for years to come. And for people that do inhabit those homes, it’s going to an isolating experience. But there’s an effort underway to rebuild. …
There’s also a lot of for-sale signs. And that’s the sad reality of this, is that there are people who, whether it’s that they can’t afford to come back … or that they just can’t stomach it, I think, sadly, a lot people are not going to be returning to their homes.
On what the Palisades and Altadena look like today

They both look like very big construction sites in a way. There are still some facades, some ruins of the more historic buildings in the Palisades. … But mostly it’s just empty lots. And in Altadena, the same thing. If you drive by the hardware store, the outside is still there. But it’s a patchwork of empty lots. Homes now under construction. And lots and lots of workers. … There are still a handful of people who are living in both the Palisades and in Altadena, but for the most part, these are communities where you’ve got workers going in during the day and coming out at night. …
We have designed this community to be one that’s in the crosshairs of a fire just like the one we experienced and that we will certainly, certainly experience again, because nobody’s packing it up and leaving Los Angeles. People may not return to their communities after they’ve lost their homes, but the ship has sailed on living in the wildland urban interface in the second largest city in the country.
On seeing this story, personally, as his “most important assignment”
Jacob Soboroff is a correspondent for MS NOW, formerly MSNBC.
Jason Frank Rothenberg/HarperCollins
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Jason Frank Rothenberg/HarperCollins
I don’t think I realized at the time how badly I needed the connections that I made in the wake of the fire, both with the people who have lost homes and the firefighters, first responders who were out there, but also honestly with my own family, my immediate family, my wife and my kids, my mom and my dad and my siblings and myself. I think that this was a really hard year in LA, and I think in the wake of the fire, I was experiencing some level of despair as well. Then the ICE raids happened here and sort of turned our city upside down. And this book for me was just this amazing cathartic blessing of an opportunity to find community with people I don’t think I ever would have otherwise spent time with, and to reconnect with people who I hadn’t seen or heard from in forever.
Anna Bauman and Nico Wisler produced and edited this interview for broadcast. Bridget Bentz, Molly Seavy-Nesper and Beth Novey adapted it for the web.

Lifestyle
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Lifestyle
Feeling cooped up? Get out of town with this delightful literary road trip
Tom Layward, the narrator and main character of Ben Markovits’ new novel, The Rest of Our Lives, introduces himself in a curious way: On the very first page of the book, he talks, matter-of-factly, about the affair his wife, Amy, had 12 years ago, when their two kids were young.
Amy, who’s Jewish, got involved at a local synagogue in Westchester; Tom, who was raised Catholic and is clearly not a joiner, remained on the sidelines. At the synagogue, Amy met Zach Zirsky, who Tom describes as “the kind of guy who danced with all the old ladies and little pigtailed girls at a bar mitzvah, so he could also put his arm around the pretty mothers and nobody would complain.”
After the affair came out, Tom and Amy decided to stay together for the kids: a boy named Michael and his younger sister, Miriam. But, Tom tells us “I also made a deal with myself. When Miriam goes to college you can leave, too.” The deal, Tom says, “helped me get through the first few months … [when] we had to pretend that everything was fine.”
Twelve years have since passed and the marriage has settled back into a state of OK-ness. Miriam, now 18, is starting college in Pittsburgh and because Amy is having a tough time with Miriam’s departure, Tom alone drives her to campus.
And, once Tom drops Miriam off, he just keeps driving, westward; without explanation to us or to himself; as though he’s a passenger in a driverless car that has decided to carry him across “the mighty Allegheny” and keep on going.

The three-page scene where Tom passively melds into the trans-continental traffic flow constitutes a master class on how to write about a character who is opaque to himself. “[Y]ou don’t feel anything about anything,” Amy says early on to Tom — an accusation that’s pretty much echoed by Tom’s old college girlfriend, Jill, whom he spontaneously drops in on at her home in Las Vegas, after being out of touch for roughly 30 years.
But, if Tom is distanced from his own feelings (and vague about the “issue” he had “with a couple of students” that forced him to take a leave from teaching in law school), he’s a sharp diagnostician of other people’s behavior. What fuels this road trip is Tom’s voice — by turns, wry, mournful and, oh-so-casually, astute.
There’s a strain of Richard Ford and John Updike in Tom’s tone, which I mean as a high compliment. Take, for instance, how Tom chats to us readers about a married couple who are old friends of his and Amy’s:
[Chrissie] was maybe one of those women who derives secret energy from the troubles of her friends. Her husband, Dick, was a perfectly good guy, about six-two, fat and healthy. He worked for an online tech platform. I really don’t know what he did.
So might most of us be summed up for posterity.

As Tom racks up miles, taking detours to visit other folks out of his past, like his semi-estranged brother, his meandering road trip accrues in suspense. There’s something else he’s subconsciously speeding away from here besides his marriage. Tom tells us at the outset that he’s suffering from symptoms his doctors ascribe to long COVID: dizziness and morning face swelling so severe that daughter Miriam jokingly calls him “Puff Daddy.” Shortly after he reaches the Pacific, Tom also lands in the hospital. “Getting out of the hospital,” Tom dryly comments, “is like escaping a casino, they don’t make it easy for you.”
The canon of road trip stories in American literature is vast, even more so if you count other modes of transportation besides cars — like, say, rafts. But, the most memorable road trips, like The Rest of Our Lives, notice the easy-to-miss signposts — marking life forks in the road and looming mortality — that make the journey itself everything.
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