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‘Modern Love’ Podcast: Miranda July Knew Exactly What She Was Doing

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‘Modern Love’ Podcast: Miranda July Knew Exactly What She Was Doing

It’s been almost a year since Miranda July released her hit novel, “All Fours.” The novel features a woman in her mid-40s who heads out on a solo road trip across the country, only to stop at a roadside motel 30 minutes from her home. She winds up staying there for three weeks, exploring and questioning what she actually wants and needs out of midlife, things she can’t really focus on when she’s busy being a wife, a mom and a working artist. In the motel, she redecorates the room, designs her days the way she wants to and gets in touch with her changing desires.

In the past year, this book has become a touchstone for how our culture addresses women in perimenopause. It’s expanded beyond the page to a kind of movement. Soon after the book’s release, women started writing to July with their own stories. She started a Substack to keep those conversations going. People organized discussion groups all over the world called All Fours Group Chats. Hats were made. “All Fours” was shortlisted for the National Book Award, and it’s currently being adapted into a limited TV series. The paperback version of the novel will be released May 13.

In this week’s episode of Modern Love, July talks about the anger and desire that shaped the writing of “All Fours.” And she reflects on why this novel is inspiring to some, and threatening to others, in this cultural moment.


Listener Callout:

How did your dad express his feelings? Tell us your story in a voice memo, and you might hear yourself in a future episode. For Father’s Day, the Modern Love team is looking at different ways dads show their feelings, and we want to know about a moment when your dad opened up to you. Where were you? What did he do or say? How did you react? Did it have a lasting impact on you? And if you’re a dad, how do you think about showing emotion or vulnerability when you’re with your kids? Is it something you do intentionally? Does it feel easy? Hard? The deadline is May 15. Submission instructions are here.

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Here’s how to submit a Modern Love essay to The New York Times.

Here’s how to submit a Tiny Love Story.

Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

Links to transcripts of episodes generally appear on these pages within a week.


“Modern Love” is hosted by Anna Martin and produced by Reva Goldberg, Emily Lang, Davis Land, Amy Pearl and Sara Curtis. The show is edited by Lynn Levy and Jen Poyant, our executive producer. Production management is by Christina Djossa. The show is mixed by Daniel Ramirez and recorded by Maddy Masiello and Nick Pitman. It features original music by Pat McCusker, Elisheba Ittoop, Dan Powell, Marion Lozano and Diane Wong. Our theme music is by Dan Powell.

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Special thanks to Daniel Jones, Miya Lee, Larissa Anderson, Dahlia Haddad, Lisa Tobin, Bianca Flores, Brooke Minters, Felice León, Dave Mayers, Eddie Costas, Sawyer Roque, Sophie Erickson, Mariya Abdulkaf, Mark Zemel, Pat Gunther, Mahima Chablani, Nell Gallogly, Jeffrey Miranda, Isabella Anderson, Christine Nguyen, Reyna Desai, Jordan Cohen, Victoria Kim, Nina Lassam and Julia Simon.

Thoughts? Email us at modernlovepodcast@nytimes.com.

Want more from Modern Love? Read past stories. Watch the TV series and sign up for the newsletter. We also have swag at the NYT Store and two books, “Modern Love: True Stories of Love, Loss and Redemption” and “Tiny Love Stories: True Tales of Love in 100 Words or Less.”

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‘Wait Wait’ for February 28. 2026: Live in Bloomington with Lilly King!

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‘Wait Wait’ for February 28. 2026: Live in Bloomington with Lilly King!

An underwater view shows US’ Lilly King competing in a heat of the women’s 200m breaststroke swimming event during the Paris 2024 Olympic Games at the Paris La Defense Arena in Nanterre, west of Paris, on July 31, 2024. (Photo by François-Xavier MARIT / AFP) (Photo by FRANCOIS-XAVIER MARIT/AFP via Getty Images)

François-Xavier Marit/Getty Images


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This week’s show was recorded in Bloomington, Indiana with host Peter Sagal, judge and scorekeeper Bill Kurtis, Not My Job guest Lilly King and panelists Alonzo Bodden, Josh Gondelman, and Faith Salie. Click the audio link above to hear the whole show.

Who’s Bill This Time

State of the Union is Hot; The Tribal Council Convenes Again; A Glow Up In the Doll Aisle

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Panel Questions

The Toot Tracker

Bluff The Listener

Our panelists tell three stories about a travel hack in the news, only one of which is true.

Not My Job: Olympic Swimmer Lilly King answers our questions about Lil’ Kings

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Olympic Swimmer Lilly King plays our game called, “Lilly King meet these Lil’ Kings” Three questions about short kings.

Panel Questions

Cleaning Out The Cabinet; Bedtime Stacking

Limericks

Bill Kurtis reads three news-related limericks: Getting Cozy With Cross Country Skiing; Pickleball’s New Competition; Bees Get Freaky

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Lightning Fill In The Blank

All the news we couldn’t fit anywhere else

Predictions

Our panelists predict, after American Girls, what’ll be the next toy to get an update.

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Zendaya and Tom Holland Are Married, Her Longtime Stylist Claims

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Zendaya and Tom Holland Are Married, Her Longtime Stylist Claims

Law Roach
Zendaya and Tom’s Wedding Already Happened …
Y’all Missed It!!!

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Bet on Anything, Everywhere, All at Once : Up First from NPR

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Bet on Anything, Everywhere, All at Once : Up First from NPR

Online prediction market platforms allow people to place bets on wide-ranging subjects such as sports, finance, politics and currents events.

Photo Illustration by Scott Olson/Getty Images


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The rise of prediction markets means you can now bet on just about anything, right from your phone. Apps like Kalshi and Polymarket have grown exponentially in President Trump’s second term, as his administration has rolled back regulations designed to keep the industry in check. Billions of dollars have flooded in, and users are placing bets on everything from whether it will rain in Seattle today to whether the US will take over control of Greenland. Who’s winning big on these apps? And who is losing? NPR correspondent Bobby Allyn joins The Sunday Story to explain how these markets came to be and where they are going.

This episode was produced by Andrew Mambo. It was edited by Liana Simstrom and Brett Neely. Fact-checking by Barclay Walsh and Susie Cummings. It was engineered by Robert Rodriguez. 

We’d love to hear from you. Send us an email at TheSundayStory@npr.org.

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