Chris Pine says he has “fantastic anxiety dreams.”

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Dia Dipasupil/Getty

Chris Pine says he has “fantastic anxiety dreams.”

Dia Dipasupil/Getty

A note from Wild Card host Rachel Martin: The other day I was talking to It’s Been a Minute host Brittany Luse. I was asking her some of our Wild Card questions and one that came up was about what it means to live a good life. She said a good life is one in which you get to be exactly who you are — one where you don’t have to fake how you show up in the world.

I keep thinking about that answer. I think we all find ourselves doing things that aren’t authentic to us — to please our parents, impress our friends or to meet some societal standard of success. But as someone who recently took a big leap away from that, I can tell you it feels pretty liberating. It can be scary too, though, because creating something new and personal means when people don’t like it, well, it’s on you.

And this is where Chris Pine is at right now in his life. By most accounts, he’s got it made. He’s played Captain Kirk in a few Star Trek films. He was Wonder Woman’s boyfriend and played the hero in the Dungeons and Dragons movie. He could have just ridden that handsome hero thing off into the sunset. But it turns out, Pine is a lot more than that (and frankly he’s a lot weirder than any of those roles let him be.)

His recent movie, Poolman, is his way of showing up in the world in his real skin, so to speak. Pine wrote the movie with his friend Ian Gotler, and Pine directs the film and stars in it. This is his baby from start to finish. So when critics trashed the movie, it was tough, as you’ll hear in our conversation. But he’s not sulking about it, because he made a thing he loved that felt true to his creative brain. And you can tell in the movie, he’s just having the best time. That seems like the good life to me.

This Wild Card interview has been edited for length and clarity. Host Rachel Martin asks guests randomly-selected questions from a deck of cards. Tap play above to listen to the full podcast, or read an excerpt below.

Question 1: What was a recurring dream you had growing up?

Chris Pine: I grew up with this beautiful sycamore tree in my front yard. And I had a dream that this elf lived in this sort of subterranean lodge that had a connection with the tree in my front yard and this little door next to my garage.

And I remember going in and having tea with the elf. It probably was engendered by my mother. She told this fantastic recurring story about this family of mice that lived in the sycamore. So I think that’s probably what dropped in my brain and percolated around and flowered into that dream.

Rachel Martin: I love that though, because it was mostly positive.

Pine: I don’t have nightmares, thank God. I have anxiety dreams, I have fantastic anxiety dreams. But no, that was the one growing up that I remember the most.

Martin: Did you have any anxiety dreams when you were young or that’s mostly an adult experience?

Pine: I’m sure I did. I was a very anxious child and a pretty anxious young man and still am, but have wrestled with that demon for long enough that I think we’re in a stalemate, at least for the most part now. But no, my more interesting anxiety dreams are now.

Question 2: What’s a goal you’re glad you gave up on?

Pine: Perfection. My film got absolutely just decimated when it premiered in Toronto, just like obliterated. I didn’t read any of [the reviews]. Thank God. But I heard enough to know that people really didn’t like it. Which brings up for me one of my primary triggers, or whatever, is not being liked or this idea of perfection, of not creating something that is perceived as [perfect].

So in many ways, this journey thus far has been so great to remember: I had joy. I experienced joy. It still gives me joy. That’s it. That’s enough. There is no perfect. That is perfect. There’s nothing more perfect than that.

Question 3: Is there anything in your life that has felt predestined?

Pine: Poolman felt predestined. I call it, like, a snowball. A snowball starts growing and at a certain point, the snowball is so f****** large, it’s just falling downhill. You can’t do anything about the snowball falling down. You just get out of its way and let the snowball fall down the hill.

That’s what acting has felt like. That’s what writing and directing and acting in this film has felt like. That idea of it being fated, I totally buy.

Martin: Huh. And that surrendering – I mean, you had total agency over this film. You made this film, but in some ways, it got to a point where it took on a life of its own and then you just let it happen?

Pine: One of my defense mechanisms is being cerebral, using words to block the emotion. And so this process of making this film was a way for me to simply follow instincts, simply follow emotion. So this idea of, like, it came out — this is what my brain and body wanted to do collectively together. It was the most harmonious in that regard.