Wendy Corr:

Well, hey there, folks, welcome to The Roundup. We’re a Cowboy State Daily podcast and we get to feature interesting people from around the Cowboy State. I’m your host, Wendy Corr. Oh my gosh, today our guest is so interesting. We’re talking to Tucker Fagan – a lot of you might know Tucker’s name. You might know who he is, but I’m willing to bet you don’t know all that Tucker has accomplished here in the state of Wyoming. Starting off as a kid on the streets of New York, Mrs. Fagan’s little boy has grown up to just make all the difference here in Wyoming. Welcome, Tucker Fagan, to
The Roundup. It’s so good to have you on the show.

Tucker Fagan:

Thanks, Wendy. You know, I was so fortunate to have a great mom and dad, five brothers and sisters. My dad was a firefighter there, and I learned a firefighter ethic, and they devoted their whole lives to their six kids, to help us, to teach us – it just, I was so thankful for what they did for me. And the fact that I’m in Wyoming, or got here is just, you know, I can’t imagine it. But I’ve had a great life, great things, great people to be around. 

Hey, and I admire so much what you’re doing. You know, with Dr. Joe McGinley, Rob Wallace, Chuck Box, Candy Moulton. And I know all those people! 

Wendy Corr:

That’s because you run in the right circles.

Tucker Fagan:

In New York, I never would have met people like that, right? I’d of had a job. I was a Teamster. That’s how I got through college. 

Wendy Corr:

No kidding?

Tucker Fagan:

I worked at the A&P warehouse, which did all the five boroughs in New York, up to Albany, half of Connecticut, half of New Jersey. So I was a laborer. And that’s really what happened to me, is, I get my degree, and here I am four years of college, I go, I move boxes. That’s what I do. And my family there, you know, firefighters, cops, people like that. I didn’t know what to do. It was 1967. 

So I joined the Air Force, it was the height of Vietnam. They sent me to Cheyenne, Wyoming. So my first job in the Air Force was here in Cheyenne, I was a missile launch officer. And I was a kid from New York, from the streets. And you know, and I didn’t know about rodeo, I didn’t about cowboys, didn’t know about any of this. And I was kind of introverted and shy. So I kind of stayed in my room. 

And I didn’t plan to do this, but I eventually memorized the entire missile system. I could write out the entire circuit breaker protection chart from memory. I could write out every control air line, every hydraulic line, every switch, every light, every piece of equipment. I knew it all. 

And what was kind of cool was, then, I got a call from a colonel. And he said he worked at the joint strategic target planning staff in Omaha. They are the war plan builders. And he said, “We heard about you, Fagan, and there’s four Air Force and four Navy. And we want you to be one of them. So you’re going to come here to Omaha and you’re going to build a war plan.” And I did that for the next five years. 

And, same thing. I went there saying, you’re going to pick me, I’m going to do my darndest to know every weapon, where it is, how big, how fast. Could it penetrate enemy defenses? Why would you use a Poseidon weapon on this kind of target or trident? Or a Minuteman II or Minuteman III or B 52? Or FB 111 weapon, as we had at the time. Why would you use that weapon on that target? What’s the objective? How do we accomplish that? What’s the best mix of target to weapon to accomplish the objectives that we got from the President and the Secretary of Defense? 

And eventually I knew just about, I knew every option, and what was inside that option, whether they were, you know, submarines and bombers or submarines and land based weapons. I knew in my head. 

I get a call from another Colonel. He’s with the Joint Chiefs of Staff at the Pentagon. He said, “Fagan, we heard about you. We want you to come here and take over the nuclear warfare branch for the Joint Chiefs of Staff.”

Wendy Corr:

Holy dang. 

Tucker Fagan:

That job, it was pretty cool. I was responsible to teach civilian and military people about the war plan and how it worked and how it fit together. And one of the primary jobs was to create the black bag, which is called the President’s football, and inside of it is the war documents. And I did that for President Ronald Reagan. And I had the opportunity to go over to the White House and teach President Reagan. Awesome, awesome guy. And I’ll tell you that story.

Wendy Corr:

Please do! Yeah, no, we want to hear that story – because you told me the other day and everybody needs to hear that story.

Tucker Fagan:

Okay, so I was told, “Hey, be ready on any day, you have to be ready. We’re gonna call you. You be ready, you get over the White House.” So anyway, it snowed about a foot in Northern Virginia, Washington, DC. That’s catastrophe. I mean, two inches is a catastrophe in DC. So anyway, I go out in my driveway and shovel out my Volkswagen, jack it up and put chains on. Go back inside, I’m taking a shower, and my wife starts beating on the door. “Get out here. You get out here. It’s the White House on the phone.” I said, “Hey, I’m all wet. Just tell them, get the number, I’ll call them back, don’t worry.” And at that time, you know, the phone was next to the bed, it was attached to the wall. And she goes, “No, no, you get out here right now.” 

So I go, I take the phone. And the guy says, “Okay, you’re on at three o’clock. We have a secret service four wheel drive vehicle. We’ll come and get you. We have a secret service Cat. We’re gonna get you. We have a helicopter on alert over at Andrews. We’re gonna get you.” I said, “Well, I bought this Volkswagen in Cheyenne, Wyoming, and once you put chains on it, it’s pretty much a beast.” And I said, “How about this, I’ll head up that way. (I was 16 miles away from the Pentagon anyway,) I’ll head up that way, and if I get stuck, I’ll give you guys a call and you guys can come get me.” 

So anyway, I got up to the Pentagon, got my stuff, went over the 14th Street Bridge in a little Volkswagen, I have classified material that most people have never heard of. So anyway, I get over to the White House, go in the East Side Door, downstairs into the Presidential Emergency Operations Center. It’s a really cool command post in the basement of the White House. So I’m in there, and I’m on this side of the table, and on that side of the table is Admiral Crowe. He’s the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. There’s the Secretary of Defense, Caspar Weinberger, and the deputy for national security General Colin Powell. So I’m on this side of the table going, “Tucker, don’t let your brain and your mouth go into hyperspeed. Just calm down, just calm down.” 

The door opens, the President comes in, and goes, “Damn, there are rooms in here I never even heard of.” They just all laughed. Well, he put me at ease. I go, “He’s just like my family, my friends.” And he was one of the coolest people to be around. He and Caspar Weinberger are like man and wife, one would start the sentence, the other would finish. I was so impressed with how they had worked together for so long, they had such a love for each other. They knew each other, how they thought and what they were doing. 

Anyway, when I finished the briefing, he turned to Weinberger and said, “We go to war, this is the guy I want to talk to.” I said, “It’s my job to know every weapon, know if your position is under attack and how much time we have with you. And we’ll count that down if you’re under attack. If you’re not under attack, we’ll have plenty of time to discuss it. But we’ll tell you, you know, the characterization of the attack on the United States, what the best best available option is right now. And we’ll turn it over to you, Mr. President.” 

So here’s a firefighter from New York, I went to a school you never heard of. I’m in the White House. And my grandparents came from Ireland, they were maids and workers for very rich people in Scarsdale, New York. And we, you know, we were the poor family in that town. But I’m in the White House. That’s America. That’s America, because out of 23,000 people who work in the Pentagon, I’m the one who was sent over there. 

So, you just, you never know where life is gonna take you. But that’s my secret is, whatever job you have, you do the best. You do absolutely the best on that job, know everything about it. And then number two, have a sense of humor. That’s so key. People want to be around other people who – and it’s like the firefighter ethic. I’ll stand with you. Good times, bad times, I will never walk away from you. That is so key. And that’s what I found in the military, too.

And here in Wyoming, you have that same thing. So many good people that work with you. I mean, the 90 legislators when I was working with the Wyoming House and Senate, just great people – governors, the staff there. I just can’t tell you what a great place this is. And I tell my brothers and sisters, if you ever try to go see the governor in New York, there’ll be 15 people in front of you, you will never see that Governor. Here, you come in our Capitol building, come in, turn right, walk down the hall, the door’s open at the end of the hallway, you go in there, he can see. And anywhere else, you don’t get that. 

Wendy Corr:

You don’t get that anywhere else. And it’s like what we were talking about earlier, Tucker, the people that you meet in this state are amazing people. They’re best selling authors, and they are mountain climbers. And they are, like you mentioned, the politicians – we can go talk to our politicians anytime we want. Our representatives in Congress, we have access to them in ways that other states don’t. And it’s such a blessing to live here in Wyoming, which I’m sure is why you chose to come back here as often as you did. You made sure you made your way back here to Wyoming. Tucker, tell us how you got back to Wyoming?

Tucker Fagan:

Well, after I was Wing Commander at the Air Force Base, which is a cool thing, too. When you start out there, and you come through the front gate as a second lieutenant, you’re going, like, “Do I even fit in here? What is this job like? What are these bosses like? Are they good? Are they bad? Will they yell at you? What are they like? So anyway, you know, years later, I come back as Wing Commander. And I had the same feelings coming back in and remembering that. This time, of course, I had two dogs, four kids and a wife. That was different.

Wendy Corr:

Yes, that makes a bit of a difference.

Tucker Fagan:

Anyway, so after I was Wing commander, I go back, I work at the Pentagon. I was working for the chief of staff of the Air Force, General Tony McPeak, who was kind of a different sort of fella. But anyway, I got a call from the second 20th Force Commander. And he had just moved the 20th Air Force from California to FE Warren in Cheyenne. And he said, “Hey, Tucker, I’m looking for a vice commander, would you come back to Wyoming?” I said, “I have two kids at the University of Wyoming, you would bring my family back together. Thank you. Thank you.” 

So I came back here, and I did it for four and a half years, three different commanders I worked for. And so, by law, you have to retire. It’s not like you can say, “I’ll just stay forever.” No, there’s a certain time period, you have to leave. So my time period came up, and thankfully, Governor Geringer called me and said, “Hey, I want to hire you. I got a job for you.” And it was director of the Department of Commerce. So I retired from the Air Force on Friday night, Monday morning, I started in commerce. 

And the task was, reorganize what is in the Department of Commerce now. And so I built the plan for State Parks and Cultural Resources. Ran it through the House, ran through the Senate, governor signed it, and I was the first director of State Parks and Cultural Resources, which was a great job, great people, really awesome.

Wendy Corr:

So, the Department of Cultural Resources, I mean, state parks, we all benefit.

Tucker Fagan:

We almost made the mistake of calling it Cultural Resources And Parks, which would have been CRAP.

Wendy Corr:

Okay, so I’m so glad you didn’t do that. Oh, my gosh. But we all benefit from that, there are state parks everywhere in the state of Wyoming, and we all use them. But you’re the one that organized it, you were the first one that started that. And that was not the end of your time, though, working for the state government? 

Tucker Fagan:

No, then a couple months later, I got a call saying, “Hey, the Wyoming Business Council is really having a problem, you need to get down there and fix it.” To which I said, “I don’t know what economic development is, I never thought of it.” So he said, “Just go down there and get it going.” So I did that for the next eight and a half years. 

And, you know, it was a tough job in the sense that, you know, everybody goes, “What do we need to do to diversify the economy, to grow the economy?” And a lot of people have ideas, but then the implementation of that is the really important part of it. My first staff meeting, I said to the staff there, “You know, we’re on the front of the newspaper, displaying all sorts of stuff, you know, promises we probably can’t keep. I don’t believe in that garbage. Here’s what we do. I want to work, and a year from now, if somebody in Cody stops Senator Hank Coe in a hardware store and says, ‘Hey, those guys are actually doing stuff,’ that’s what I’m after.” 

So that’s what we started doing, working the background, and we funded Small Business Development Center, Research Product Center, all tools that could help existing Wyoming businesses grow. We only spent 2% of our budget on recruiting, because to me, that was like a lottery ticket. You know, a lot of companies would come to Wyoming and say, “Wow, no corporate income tax, low unemployment insurance rates, you know, you’re heaven, we want to come to Wyoming.” And we would show them different communities, and places where they could land, and they’d say, “Hey, we want product out the door in six months.” And we’d have to say, you give me 18 months, I might get a road out there. That’s where Wyoming was back then. 

So that’s when we went to the legislature and said, “Hey, we need to start building the infrastructure, the physical infrastructure, that a company can come and say, ‘Okay, yeah, there’s a business park. It has water, sewer, power, broadband, it has all the things I need to come and start building.’” And I think the fruition has come in now, where you see, especially around Cheyenne – I mean, they have giant data centers here now. And you look at Casper, what they’ve done with their business park; and, you know, look at even Cody, at the end of the runway there. I mean, we didn’t have that before. And that’s why we needed the physical infrastructure built, so you do it incrementally, to prepare people for that. 

And I think, you know, again, the state is growing. Is it going to be massive? No, it’s not, there is some limitation. If anything, our problem right now is having adequate workforce. Which again, that’s back to the old problem of, we educate kids, and they want to go somewhere else. And my kids did that too, my two older boys, you know, they went to UW, went down to Denver and worked for tech firms down there. Then they came back, because they know what it’s like, because they know what it’s like here in Cheyenne. 

And that’s what to me is so good is, you go out, go somewhere else, figure it out, come back, bring your expertise, bring the education, bring that family connection. You know, bring that honesty, decency. levelheadedness. That’s what Wyoming is known for. And teamwork. That’s what we do here. That’s so important. And you don’t find that in other places. You find the stabbers-in-the-back-ers, that kind of garbage. You don’t get that here. This is why we have something so good. And I’m so happy that my family was a part of this. 

You know, working for the Air Force, working for state government, and then working for Cynthia Lummmis, you know, eight years as her chief of staff. I had the greatest time – that person knows this state up, back, sideways. I’ll put her up against anybody. You don’t see her in the news a lot, you don’t see the pictures, all that – she’s just like Senator Mike Enzi, she’s a worker in the background. 

Wendy Corr:

Mike was a great guy, oh my gosh, and he did not draw attention to himself, he just went quietly to work.

Tucker Fagan:

If you ever went to Mike Enzi’s office, if you started a bill, got it all the way through, and the President signed it, they had an original copy, and they would frame it. Mike Enzi had more of those on his wall than any other senator. And people from Wyoming didn’t even know it, because he would not tell you. That’s the kind of people we are. And that’s where Cynthia Lummis is, too – the background workers, the people who try to get stuff done, who work with people, you know, across party lines. A lot of animosity, but there are background workers up there in Congress, and she’s one of them.

Wendy Corr:

That’s fantastic. How did you first meet Cynthia? Because like you mentioned, you were with her from 2007 to 2014, is that correct?

Tucker Fagan:

Yeah. Well, you know, when I was in the Business Council, on the State Loan and Investment Board, they meet, you know, once a month, I was first on the agenda for that. And what I learned in the Air Force is, I was bringing business ready community projects from communities around the state. And what I learned in the Air Force, you don’t just go to that meeting and go, ‘Well, here it is. You guys vote for it.’ See, what you did was, ten days before, I would go to the governor, the Secretary of State, the Superintendent of Public Instruction, right? And the auditor, and the treasurer, and say, “Here’s the game plan. Here’s what I’m going to be presenting next Tuesday at the SLIB meeting. So here it is, here’s the reason for it. Here’s why we’re doing it. Vote for or against it, that’s your job. My job is to get it all together, work with that community. And we think this is the best plan for them.” 

And so I got to know all of them on a very personal level, and obviously Cynthia was one of them. And so when she was running for office, she said, “Hey, would you come and help me?” And after that, she said, “Would you be my chief of staff?” 

Wendy Corr:

And so back you went to Washington DC,

Tucker Fagan:

Actually, not so much. I told Cynthia, I said, “Hey, Cynthia, I have moved so much. I had one kid that went to four high schools. I have my family now all in Cheyenne, I’m done moving. I’m done.” She said, “Okay, why don’t you do this – you be the Chief of Staff, but stay in Wyoming, run the staff up in DC and run the state staff.” And this was cool. (John) Boehner, who was Speaker of the House, found out she was doing that. He told her, “I want you to teach all the new people coming to Congress – that’s the right way.” He said, “I see my Chief of Staff may be six, seven minutes a day, and that’s running in front of them, going back here, going over there. I know he picks you up every Friday night down at the airport, drives you up, goes around the state with you, drives you back on Monday morning. You probably have more time with your chief of staff than anybody else in Congress. You’re doing it right. We’re all doing it wrong.”

Wendy Corr:

That’s so great. Oh my gosh.

Tucker Fagan:

So I was, and a lot of people said, “Well, you must have been in DC all the time.” Well, I did do seven years at the Pentagon, so I do know DC, and I do know the area, but I was here. It was so much better. And we would, you know, driving up and down, or you know, driving into Jackson, driving to Casper, or driving, you name it. We had the greatest discussions on everything. On policy, on family, on religion, on natural resources. 

One time driving from Manville to Hartsville, she goes, “What’s that over there, Tucker?” I’m a city kid. Right? “Grass?” She goes “No, that’s the best forage in the entire United States. It’s on Hageman’s ranch right there. Look at that!”

Wendy Corr:

Oh my gosh, that’s fantastic. 

Tucker Fagan:

So a bunch of stuff like that. It was the greatest time. 

Wendy Corr:

You have lived such a unique and interesting and multifaceted life, from the military to government service and things like that. When you look back, what has been your favorite time?

Tucker Fagan:

Life is it! It’s now, it’s then. It was, here I am in the White House with a President of the United States. It’s with my mom and dad playing stickball in the street. To me, each new step, it just seemed like it was good. And it was good because I was around honest, decent, good people who I helped, and they helped me, and we worked together. In all these jobs – I told you this – I never asked for one. It was people who recognized the job I was doing – building the war plan, or doing the black bag, or doing, you know, the commerce to the Business Council, then to Cynthia saying, “Hey, would you come help me,” So I didn’t have to ask for that job. They came to me because they had heard about me, or they saw me and they say, “Okay, I like being around that guy. We have fun. We do the job and have fun at the same time.”

Wendy Corr:

But something that you’d said earlier, and you and I talked about this last week when we visited just real briefly, is that secret for success. That secret for success is, know your job. Know it backwards and forwards, be the expert. And that, in your opinion – and we kind of joked at the time and I said, “You know, we’re gonna get a Tucker Fagan TED talk here,” but that is your recipe to anybody who wants to excel, who wants to succeed – whether it’s business, whether it’s their political ambitions, anything. Be the expert. Tell us more about that.

Tucker Fagan:

That’s it. You know, going into building the war plan. You know, I looked at that and said, okay, there’s somebody just like me in China and Russia. They may be smarter than me, they may have went to a better school than I went to, but they are not going to outwork me. I am going to learn every weapon, I’m going to learn – why would you use it? Why would you not use it? What’s the best way to build these options that we’ve been asked to do? Those kinds of things. 

And there were seven other people who worked with me, and I’d say one or two of them were kind of close to that, too, of learning everything else. But then, you know, two or three of them were just like, “Well, it’s just a job and you know, I show up in the morning and do a little bit of work and then I go home at night.” To me, I lived it. I lived that plan. All right. Same thing, working with the Joint Chiefs. I lived that plan, to say, if I’m responsible to teach the president, to teach the chairmen, the Secretary of Defense – then there’s a list of four stars who could take over for the Chairman, if he or she is incapacitated. So I’d have to go to the Commander in Chief of the Pacific Air Chief, the Atlantic, Commander in Chief of Europe, and go teach them too. 

So here I am, a kid from the streets again, Mrs. Fagan’s little boy, and I’m going to these places, going in to talk to those four stars and laying out, “Here’s your responsibility.” You know, one of the best ones – the commandant of the Marine Corps. Yeah, just a good person, I mean, just such a pleasure to be around. People like that. And I was teaching them. 

So you go, like, okay, and then here working in the state. And, you know, I think I did a good job at state parks and cultural resources. And they say, hey, you need to get over the Business Council. It’s crashing and burning.

Wendy Corr:

Success. You start something, they say, “Hey, you’re doing so good there, we’re gonna pull you away from it. We’re gonna get you to help here too.” And that’s kind of been your recipe, then – because you were able to go in and be that problem solver, you went to the next place. 

So what was your last job that you have done that you maybe got paid for, I guess? What was the last position that you held before you retired?

Tucker Fagan:

Well, it was working for Cynthia Lummis. Okay, I did work for Mick McMurry. Awesome, awesome, awesome person. I was on two boards of directors that Mick asked me to be on. I love Mick. And there again, there’s people in this state that do so much that people just don’t know. Gotta love Mick.

Wendy Corr:

But you’re still busy, Tucker. I mean, you are a guy, you’re out there. What are you doing right now in your “retirement?”

Tucker Fagan:

Well, I work with, in a way – I’m an advisor for my two sons, but they don’t need much anymore. They’re where they are. I’ve done a lot for Cheyenne Frontier Days. But I kind of hold back, because I go like, in many of the things in Frontier Days, which is really a good thought, that you don’t be there for like 10-15-20 years. Greeley Stampede, that’s what they do. They get people on their committee, they never get off. Where at Frontier Days, you usually do a job for like three years, and I’ve had a lot of those. I’ve been on the board of directors. And I’m proud of this – I was chairman of the board of directors of Cheyenne Frontier Days. Shoot, I didn’t know diddly about rodeo. And I’m eventually that – and I’m proud of this, I’m in the Cheyenne Frontier Days Hall of Fame.

Wendy Corr:

How did that happen? A kid from New York – you never rode a horse, probably before you came to Wyoming.

Tucker Fagan:

The only horses we saw were the cops’, and we were afraid of them.

Wendy Corr:

But you mentioned, and we just touched on it, you have held a number of positions at Cheyenne Frontier Days – not just on the board, but also with the foundation. Tell us about your relationship with Frontier Days. 

Tucker Fagan:

Yeah, I couldn’t say no. So I was chairman of the Cheyenne Frontier Days, City of Cheyenne Joint Powers board, the Cheyenne Frontier Days building authority, the president of the – for eight years – the Crisis Fund, which is an awesome thing that helps people. You know, if you have a fire in your house, or a bad accident, or you lose your job, we would go in and pay your utility bills, pay your mortgage, or your rent for six months, that kind of thing. And we would have amassed the money and then go help them. It’s a great charity. So if you work for Frontier Days, you’re a volunteer, and something happens to you, you lose your job, whatever, we’re going to take care of you. I mean, awesome jobs like that. 

So on the foundation, I was one of the original members on the board, and eventually I was chairman of that board. 

And then Tommy Hersey, he called me back and said, “Hey, would you put together the entire foundation.” So I said, “Tommy, I’m in my late 70s. If my brain was still working like it used to, I’d be working for Cynthia again, but I’m just not there. So I’ll give it a shot for two months.” And I did that, and one Sunday, I’m like, I’m cooked. My brain’s cooked. You know. So I went to Tommy and said, “Hey, I love working for you, Tommy, I love doing this. But you know what? I just don’t have the capacity to do it anymore.” So I pulled back from all those things. I was on the board of directors for Align. I was on the board of directors for Laramie County Community College Foundation, so it was just like, I’m cooked.

Wendy Corr:

It seems to me, Tucker, that you have to be involved. This is what you evolved to be, after you said, “You know what, I’m in the Teamsters, but I can’t just sit and collect a paycheck and do a job. I’ve got to be doing something meaningful. And so, Tucker, it seems like, that to me, sums up your life. You want to do meaningful things, and you’re continuing to do meaningful things, even after your retirement.

Tucker Fagan:

Well, in a way, yes. Yesterday I was up in Casper, interviewing and working with kids who want to go to West Point, Annapolis and the Air Force Academy, which is cool. Which is a cool thing. You know, I’ve been doing that, I did it all the years for Cynthia, I did it for two years for Cheney. And now I’m back with Cynthia again. So, you know, things like that. 

And I mean, you see these young kids from Wyoming, they’re the exact young people we want in our military. We want them to be the leaders. And I want them to be Chief of Staff of the Army 20 years from now, Chief of Staff for the Air Force, and they have that capacity. You know, I worked for one Chief of Staff of the Air Force, he told me that the absolute best pilot in the United States Air Force, nobody could touch this kid. He was from Guernsey, Wyoming. Best pilot in the United States Air Force. 

Wendy Corr:

Oh, my gosh. So here’s the thing is you have rubbed elbows with all of these people who are household names, and yet you choose to live here in Wyoming. Just to wrap things up, Tucker, tell me about what lies ahead for you here in Wyoming – the state that you have loved, that you have chosen, that you’ve chosen to raise your children and to bring your children back to, tell us about what’s next for you here in Wyoming

Tucker Fagan:

It’s just participating and helping – and if I see something that needs to be done, I’ll help out with that. Let me go back. A lot of people don’t understand what real leadership and management is: it’s humanity. 99.9% of people come to work every day to do a good job. If you’re the leader, the manager, you recognize that. And I learned that in the warehouse – that if you create the environment where people want to come to work, it is easy. If you’re a screamer, you’re a demeanor, you yell at people – you are not a leader, you are not a manager, you’re a nothing. You are a negative influence on your organization. 

And I see so much of that in Wyoming, you know with the leadership, the people I work for in the house – Grant Larson, Hank Coe, people, just great, great people. Clarine Law! Clarine Law was the first person running a committee that I had to go brief in committee, and nobody told me how to do it. Clarine was the chair, and she helped me so much. And I would say, years later, I’d say, “Clarine, Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much for rescuing me that date because you knew I had no frappin’ idea how to testify in that committee.” Clarine Law, what a great person. You knew her too. I mean, how many times that I would go – and of course, we’d stay at the Antler Inn whenever we went to Jackson. I’d get in there at nine o’clock on Saturday night, who’s behind the desk? Clarine Law. Great person, I mean people like that where, you see, they touch you, you touch them, you go like… Good god, I’m so fortunate. 

Wendy Corr:

We are all fortunate. We’re all fortunate to live here in Wyoming and work here in Wyoming, because here, you can make dreams come true. It doesn’t matter, you don’t have to be from someplace outside of this state. You can make all your dreams come true and succeed from the ground up if you’re here in Wyoming. And that’s – you and I both, we talked about that right before we got on this call.

Tucker Fagan:

One more point. If you think you’re an outsider, it’s because that’s just in your brain. You are not an outsider. You just do your job, take care of your family, take care of yourself, be honest, decent, you will be welcomed. You will be welcomed. 

Wendy Corr:

Awesome.

Tucker, this has been such a fun conversation. This has been such a fun conversation. Thank you so much for your wisdom, for your experiences, for telling us your stories. I know you’ve got so many more stories – and I tell you what, next time, folks, you run into Tucker Fagan, have him tell you more stories, because he’s got a lot of them. Tucker, thank you. 

Tucker Fagan:

Thank you. Well, you’re from Wyoming. You’re doing such a great job for Wyoming. Thank you.

Wendy Corr:

You bet. I am glad to do it. And folks, thank you for tuning into The Roundup today. We have had such a fun conversation with the amazing Tucker Fagan. And we’ve got so many more great conversations coming up, so stay tuned next week for another great guest! Until then, I’ve been your host, Wendy Corr. Have a wonderful week! Thank you, Tucker! 

Tucker Fagan:

Thank you, Wendy, you’re awesome.