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The lesson Chris Pine learned after his new film was 'obliterated' by critics : Wild Card with Rachel Martin

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The lesson Chris Pine learned after his new film was 'obliterated' by critics : Wild Card with Rachel Martin

Chris Pine says he has “fantastic anxiety dreams.”

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Chris Pine says he has “fantastic anxiety dreams.”

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A note from Wild Card host Rachel Martin: The other day I was talking to It’s Been a Minute host Brittany Luse. I was asking her some of our Wild Card questions and one that came up was about what it means to live a good life. She said a good life is one in which you get to be exactly who you are — one where you don’t have to fake how you show up in the world.

I keep thinking about that answer. I think we all find ourselves doing things that aren’t authentic to us — to please our parents, impress our friends or to meet some societal standard of success. But as someone who recently took a big leap away from that, I can tell you it feels pretty liberating. It can be scary too, though, because creating something new and personal means when people don’t like it, well, it’s on you.

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And this is where Chris Pine is at right now in his life. By most accounts, he’s got it made. He’s played Captain Kirk in a few Star Trek films. He was Wonder Woman’s boyfriend and played the hero in the Dungeons and Dragons movie. He could have just ridden that handsome hero thing off into the sunset. But it turns out, Pine is a lot more than that (and frankly he’s a lot weirder than any of those roles let him be.)

His recent movie, Poolman, is his way of showing up in the world in his real skin, so to speak. Pine wrote the movie with his friend Ian Gotler, and Pine directs the film and stars in it. This is his baby from start to finish. So when critics trashed the movie, it was tough, as you’ll hear in our conversation. But he’s not sulking about it, because he made a thing he loved that felt true to his creative brain. And you can tell in the movie, he’s just having the best time. That seems like the good life to me.

The trailer for Poolman.

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This Wild Card interview has been edited for length and clarity. Host Rachel Martin asks guests randomly-selected questions from a deck of cards. Tap play above to listen to the full podcast, or read an excerpt below.

Question 1: What was a recurring dream you had growing up?

Chris Pine: I grew up with this beautiful sycamore tree in my front yard. And I had a dream that this elf lived in this sort of subterranean lodge that had a connection with the tree in my front yard and this little door next to my garage.

And I remember going in and having tea with the elf. It probably was engendered by my mother. She told this fantastic recurring story about this family of mice that lived in the sycamore. So I think that’s probably what dropped in my brain and percolated around and flowered into that dream.

Rachel Martin: I love that though, because it was mostly positive.

Pine: I don’t have nightmares, thank God. I have anxiety dreams, I have fantastic anxiety dreams. But no, that was the one growing up that I remember the most.

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Martin: Did you have any anxiety dreams when you were young or that’s mostly an adult experience?

Pine: I’m sure I did. I was a very anxious child and a pretty anxious young man and still am, but have wrestled with that demon for long enough that I think we’re in a stalemate, at least for the most part now. But no, my more interesting anxiety dreams are now.

Question 2: What’s a goal you’re glad you gave up on?

Pine: Perfection. My film got absolutely just decimated when it premiered in Toronto, just like obliterated. I didn’t read any of [the reviews]. Thank God. But I heard enough to know that people really didn’t like it. Which brings up for me one of my primary triggers, or whatever, is not being liked or this idea of perfection, of not creating something that is perceived as [perfect].

So in many ways, this journey thus far has been so great to remember: I had joy. I experienced joy. It still gives me joy. That’s it. That’s enough. There is no perfect. That is perfect. There’s nothing more perfect than that.

Question 3: Is there anything in your life that has felt predestined?

Pine: Poolman felt predestined. I call it, like, a snowball. A snowball starts growing and at a certain point, the snowball is so f****** large, it’s just falling downhill. You can’t do anything about the snowball falling down. You just get out of its way and let the snowball fall down the hill.

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That’s what acting has felt like. That’s what writing and directing and acting in this film has felt like. That idea of it being fated, I totally buy.

Martin: Huh. And that surrendering – I mean, you had total agency over this film. You made this film, but in some ways, it got to a point where it took on a life of its own and then you just let it happen?

Pine: One of my defense mechanisms is being cerebral, using words to block the emotion. And so this process of making this film was a way for me to simply follow instincts, simply follow emotion. So this idea of, like, it came out — this is what my brain and body wanted to do collectively together. It was the most harmonious in that regard.

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No matter what happens at the Oscars, Delroy Lindo embraces ‘the joy of this moment’

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No matter what happens at the Oscars, Delroy Lindo embraces ‘the joy of this moment’

Delroy Lindo is nominated for an Oscar for best supporting actor for his role in Sinners.

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Over the course of his decades-long career on stage and in Hollywood, Sinners actor Delroy Lindo has experienced firsthand what he calls the “disappointments, the vicissitudes of the industry.”

On Feb. 22, at the BAFTA awards in London, Lindo and Sinners co-star Michael B. Jordan were the first presenters of the evening when a man with Tourette syndrome shouted a racial slur.

Initially, Lindo says, he questioned if he had heard correctly. Then, he says, he adjusted his glasses and read the teleprompter: “I processed in the way that I process, in a nanosecond. Mike did similarly, and we went on and did our jobs.”

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Lindo describes the BAFTA incident as “something that started out negatively becoming a positive.” A week after the BAFTAs, he appeared with Sinners director Ryan Coogler at the NAACP awards.

“The fact that I could stand there in a room predominantly of our people …  and feel safe, feel loved, feel supported,” he says. “I just wanted to officially, formally say thank you to our people and to all of the people who have supported us as a result of that event, that incident.”

Sinners is a haunting vampire thriller about twins (both played by Jordan) who open a juke joint in 1930s Mississippi. The film has been nominated for a record 16 Academy Awards, including best actor for Jordan and best supporting actor for Lindo, who plays a blues musician named Delta Slim.

This is Lindo’s first Oscar nomination; five years ago, many felt his performance in the Spike Lee film Da 5 Bloods deserved recognition from the Academy. When that didn’t happen, Lindo admits he was disappointed, but he had no choice but to move on.

“I have never taken my marbles and gone home,” he says. “And I want to claim that I will not do that now. I will continue working.”

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Interview highlights

On his preparation to play Delta Slim

Various people have mentioned … [that] my presence reminds them of an uncle or their grandfather, somebody that they knew from their families, and that is a huge compliment, but more importantly than being a compliment, it’s an affirmation for the work. My preparation for this started with Ryan sending me two books, Blues People, by Amiri Baraka — who was [known as] LeRoi Jones when he wrote the book — and Deep Blues, by Robert Palmer.

DELROY LINDO as Delta Slim in Warner Bros. Pictures’ “SINNERS,” a Warner Bros. Pictures release. Source:

Lindo, shown above in his role as Delta Slim, says director Ryan Coogler “created a sacred space for all of us” on the Sinners set.

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In reading those books and then referencing those books, continuing to reference those throughout production, I was given an entrée into the worlds, the lifestyles of these musicians. There’s a certain kind of itinerant quality that they moved around a lot. The constant for them is their music, so that there is this deep-seated connection to the music.

On being Oscar-nominated for the first time — and thinking about other Black actors, including Halle Berry and Lou Gossett Jr., who had trouble getting work after their wins

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I will not view it as a curse, because I am claiming the victory in this process, no matter what happens. … In terms of this moment, I absolutely am claiming, as much as I can, the joy of this moment. I’m not saying I don’t have trepidation, I do. It’s the reason I was not listening to the broadcast this year when the nominations were announced. I did not want to set myself up. But I’m … attempting as much as I can to fortify myself and know in my heart that I will continue working as an actor. I absolutely will.

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On being “othered” as a child because of his race

Because my mom was studying to be a nurse they would not allow her to have an infant child with her on campus, so as a result of that, I was sent to live with a white family in a white working class area of London. … I was loved, I was cared for, but as a result of living with this family in this all-white neighborhood, I went to an all-white elementary or primary school. And I was literally the only Black child in an all-white school.

So one afternoon, after school had ended, I was playing with one of my playmates … And at a certain point in our game, a car pulls up, and this kid that I was playing with goes over to the car and has a very short conversation with whomever was in the car, which I now know was his parent, his father. He comes back and he … says, “I can’t play with you.” And that was the end of the game.

On the experience of writing his forthcoming memoir

It’s been healing, actually. I’m not denying that it has opened me up. I’ve been compelled to scrutinize myself. I’m using that word very advisedly, “scrutinized.” It’s a scrutiny, it’s an examination of oneself. But in my case, because a very, very, very significant part of what I’m writing has to do with re-examining my relationship with my mom. And so my mom is a protagonist in my memoir. I’m told by my editor and by my publisher that one of the attractions to what I’m writing is that it is not a classic “celebrity memoir.” I am examining history. I’m examining culture. I’m looking at certain passages of history through the lens of the “Windrush” experience [of Caribbean immigrants who came to the UK after World War II].

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On getting a masters degree to help him write his mother’s story

My mom deserved it. My mom is deserving. And not only is my mom deserving, by extension, all the people of the Windrush generation are deserving. Stories about Windrush are not part of the global cultural lexicon commensurate with its impact. The people of Windrush changed the definition of what it means to be British. There are all these Black and brown people, theretofore members of what used to be called the British Commonwealth. And they were invited by the British government to come to England, the United Kingdom, to help rebuild the United Kingdom in the aftermath of the destruction of World War II. My mom was part of that movement. They helped rebuild construction, construction industry, transportation industry, critically, the health industry, the NHS, the National Health Service. My mom is a nurse.

The reason that I went into NYU was because my original intention was to write a screenplay about my mom. I wanted to write a screenplay about my mom because I looked around and I thought: Where are the feature films that have as protagonist a Caribbean female, a Black female, where are they? … I wanted to address that, I wanted to correct that, what I see as being an imbalance.

Ann Marie Baldonado and Susan Nyakundi produced and edited this interview for broadcast. Bridget Bentz, Molly Seavy-Nesper and Beth Novey adapted it for the web.

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Britney Spears Open to Treatment Plan as Team Weighs Options

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Open to Treatment Plan After DUI Arrest, Source Says

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If you loved ‘Sinners,’ here’s what to watch next

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If you loved ‘Sinners,’ here’s what to watch next

Michael B. Jordan plays twin brothers Smoke and Stack in Sinners.

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What to watch if you loved…

Ryan Coogler’s supernatural horror stars Michael B. Jordan playing twin brothers who open a 1930s juke joint in Mississippi. Opening night does not go as planned when vampires appear outside. “In a straightforward metaphor for all the ways Black culture has been co-opted by whiteness, the raucous pleasures and sonic beauty of the juke joint attract the interest of a trio of demons … they wish to literally leech off of the talents and energy of Black folks,” writes critic Aisha Harris. The film made history with a record 16 Academy Award nominations.

We asked our NPR audience: What movie would you recommend to someone who loved Sinners? Here’s what you told us:

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Near Dark (1987)
Directed by Kathryn Bigelow; starring Adrian Pasdar, Jenny Wright, Lance Henriksen
If you want another cool vampire movie with Western kind of vibes, check out Kathryn Bigelow’s Near Dark — super underseen and kind of hard to find, but really gritty and sexy and another very different take on what you might think is a genre that had been wrung dry. – Maggie Grossman, Chicago, Ill.

30 Days of Night (2007)
Directed by David Slade; starring Josh Hartnett, Melissa George, Danny Huston
It follows a group of people in a small Alaskan town as they struggle to survive an invasion of vampires who have taken advantage of the month-long absence of the sun. Both this and Sinners revolve around a vampire takeover and the people’s fight to outlast the “night.” – Nathan Strzelewicz, DeWitt, Mich.

The Wailing (2016)
Directed by Na Hong-jin; starring Kwak Do-won, Hwang Jung-min, Chun Woo-hee, Jun Kunimura
In this South Korean supernatural horror film, a mysterious illness causes people in a quiet rural village to become violent and murderous. A local police officer investigates while trying to save his daughter, who begins showing the same disturbing symptoms. The film blends folk horror, religion, and psychological dread, exploring themes of faith, evil, and moral weakness. Like Sinners, it centers on a supernatural force corrupting a close-knit community, builds slow-burning tension, and examines spiritual conflict and human frailty. – Amy Merke, Bronx, N.Y.

Fréwaka (2024)
Directed by Aislinn Clarke; starring Bríd Ní Neachtain, Clare Monnelly, Aleksandra Bystrzhitskaya
In this Irish folk horror film, a home care worker, Shoo, is assigned to stay with an elderly woman who’s convinced she’s under siege by malevolent fairies. Like Sinners, Fréwaka blends folk traditions and social commentary with horror. The social failures Shoo copes with (untreated mental health issues, religious abuse) are just as frightening as the supernatural forces. – Kerrin Smith, Baltimore, Md.

And a bonus pick from our critic:

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Ma Rainey’s Black Bottom (2020)
Directed by George C. Wolfe; starring Viola Davis, Chadwick Boseman, Glynn Turman
This is an adaptation of August Wilson’s play about a legendary blues singer (Viola Davis) muscling through a recording session with white producers who want to control her music. Chadwick Boseman’s blistering in his final role. – Bob Mondello, NPR movie critic

Carly Rubin and Ivy Buck contributed to this project. It was edited by Clare Lombardo.

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