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How grief taught award-winning producer Jack Antonoff to be less cynical

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How grief taught award-winning producer Jack Antonoff to be less cynical

Jack Antonoff says grief can be almost like an emotional lens through which to view the world.

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A note from Wild Card host Rachel Martin: I’ve noticed something about the current cultural moment. Regrets is a bad word. Nobody has them anymore. Instead, the emotionally enlightened among us look back and see only “experiences and choices that made me who I am today.”

And I get that. We understand that obsessing over things we’ve done wrong in the past isn’t a particularly healthy thing to do. But I think we lose something when we don’t reckon with our bad choices. Somehow dismissing those things as just “part of my journey” feels like a cop out. There’s no accountability in that.

I talked about this with music producer Jack Antonoff. I told him that the biggest regret in my life was not being at my mom’s bedside when she died. At the time, I convinced myself that I could only be away from work so long — that my siblings could stay and I’d be the one to come back and be with my dad after she died.

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Antonoff shared something similar. One of his biggest regrets was being gone on tour so much when his sister was dying of cancer. He felt like if he started turning opportunities down, they wouldn’t come back. We all justify the choices we make in the moment. It’s OK to regret those things. To wish we had made different choices. The key is to absorb the consequences of the choices and move beyond them.

Antonoff’s life is not defined by regret, but he told me that it is defined by grief. He didn’t say it in a sad way. Just as a matter of fact. It frames his songwriting, how he interacts with people and how he sees the world.

The grief, he says, makes things feel more precious. And he has much to feel grateful for. His band Bleachers released a new album earlier this year. He’s got a bunch of Grammy awards and has produced for some of the biggest names in pop music, including Taylor Swift. He also got married last year to actress Margaret Qualley. He’s made peace with any regrets he has and is taking nothing for granted.

This Wild Card interview has been edited for length and clarity. Host Rachel Martin asks guests randomly-selected questions from a deck of cards. Tap play above to listen to the full podcast, or read an excerpt below.

Question 1: What is something about your hometown you’ve come to appreciate over time?

Jack Antonoff: The slowness of my hometown. I grew up in New Milford, New Jersey. That’s where I was until I was like eight and I just stared at the walls.

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All I wanted to do was break out, I wanted to go everywhere and do everything and tour the world and, you know, make my mark. And that slow, slow, slow boredom of where I grew up made my imagination run wild.

I can’t recreate it and I can’t change it and I never would. I’m just happy I got to have it. My life existed in cars waiting for my mom to do whatever she was doing.

Question 2: What is proof that somebody really knows you?

Antonoff: Proof that somebody really knows me is if they understand my rituals around feeling clean.

Martin: Oh, so many follow ups to ask here.

Antonoff: It’s not basic. It’s not like, “He’s a germaphobe.” It’s very specific of my definition of what is and isn’t clean.

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Martin: OK. Tell me an example of what that looks like for you.

Antonoff: My only concern with cleanliness is around my face. I haven’t touched my eyes, nose, mouth, or ears with my hands, unwashed, in probably 20 years. So it’s very specific.

Martin: But how is that even possible? I realized as you were talking, I was rubbing underneath my eyes.

Antonoff: That’s how you get sick. That’s how germs spread. I go play in front of people, but I have no need to rub my eyes, my nose, my mouth and my hands if they’re not washed.

Question 3: How has grief shaped your life?

Antonoff: Entirely.

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Martin: Entirely?

Antonoff: I almost see it as an emotional lens. It’s not like a thing that happened that you sometimes feel. It’s how you see things now. My sister died when I was 18, but she was sick since I was five. So it was a big part of my life.

Martin: So how does that manifest in how you see the world?

Antonoff: The thing about sick people, people who are unsure how long they’ll get to live, especially kids in that position, is the lack of cynicism. The obsession with creation, joy, love, family. When you might not have a lot of time on earth, you don’t define yourself by the things you hate, put very simply. And so that just lives in me.

I’m not really doing a bit, you know, I feel very sincere about the things I’m doing and saying. And I think a big part of that is just being confronted with time and fragility and that was always on the table.

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Martin: How do you feel most connected to her?

Antonoff: Probably through my family. I think when you have a great loss, people either run or glue themselves to each other. We definitely did the glue method.

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‘Hamnet’ star Jessie Buckley looks for the ‘shadowy bits’ of her characters

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‘Hamnet’ star Jessie Buckley looks for the ‘shadowy bits’ of her characters

Jessie Buckley has been nominated for an Academy Award for best actress for her portrayal of William Shakespeare’s wife in Hamnet.

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Actor Jessie Buckley says she’s always been drawn to the “shadowy bits” of her characters — aspects that are disobedient, or “too much.” Perhaps that’s what led her to play Agnes, the wife of William Shakespeare, in Hamnet.

Buckley says the film, which is based on Maggie O’Farrell’s 2020 novel, offered a chance to counter a common narrative about the playwright’s wife: that she “had kept him back from his genius,” Buckley says.

But, she adds, “What Maggie O’Farrell so brilliantly did, not just with Agnes and Shakespeare’s wife, but also with Hamnet, their son, was to bring these people … and give them status beside this great man. … [And] give the full landscape of what it is to be a woman.”

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The film is nominated for eight Academy Awards, including best actress for Buckley. In it, she plays a woman deeply connected to nature, who faces conflicts in her marriage, as well as the death of their son Hamnet.

Buckley found out she was pregnant a week after the film wrapped. She’s since given birth to her first child, a daughter.

“The thing that this story offered me, that brought me into this next chapter of my life as a mother was tenderness,” she says. “A mother’s tenderness is ferocious. To love, to birth is no joke. To be born is no joke. And the minute something’s born into the world, you’re always in the precipice of life and death. That’s our path. … I wanted to be a mother so much that that overrode the thought of being afraid of it.”

Jessie Buckley stars as Agnes and Joe Alwyn plays her brother Bartholomew in Hamnet.

Jessie Buckley stars as Agnes and Joe Alwyn plays her brother Bartholomew in Hamnet.

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Interview highlights

On filming the scene where she howls in grief when her son dies

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I didn’t know that that was going to happen or come out, it wasn’t in the script. I think really [director] Chloé [Zhao] asked all of us to dare to be as present as possible. Of course, leading up to it, you’re aware this scene is coming, but that scene doesn’t stand on its own. By the time I’d met that scene, I had developed such a deep bond with Jacobi Jupe, who plays Hamnet, and [co-stars] Paul [Mescal] and Emily Watson, and all the children and we really were a family. And Jacobi Jupe who plays Hamnet is such an incredible little actor and an incredible soul, and we really were a team. …

The death of a child is unfathomable. I don’t know where it begins and ends. Out of utter respect, I tried to touch an imaginary truth of it in our story as best I could, but there’s no way to define that kind of grief. I’m sure it’s different for so many people. And in that moment, all I had was my imagination but also this relationship that was right in front of me with this little boy and that’s what came out of that.

On what inspired her to pursue singing growing up

I grew up around a lot of music. My mom is a harpist and a singer and my dad has always been passionate about music, so it was always something in our house and always something that was encouraged. … Early on, I have very strong memories of seeing and hearing my mom sing in church and this quite intense mercurial conversation that would happen between her, the story and the people that would listen to her. And at the end of it, something had been cracked between them and these strangers would come up with tears in their eyes. And I guess I saw the power of storytelling through my mom’s singing at a very young age, and that was definitely something that made me think I want to do that.

On her first big break performing as a teen on the BBC singing competition I’d Do Anything — and being criticized by judges about her physical appearance

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I was raw. I hadn’t trained. I had a lot to learn and to grow in. I was only 17. I think there was part of their criticism which I think was destructive and unfair when it became about my awkwardness, or they would say I was masculine and send me to kind of a femininity school. … They sent me to [the musical production of] Chicago to put heels on and a leotard and learn how to walk in high heels, which was pretty humiliating, to be honest, and I’m sad about that because I think I was discovering myself as a young woman in the world and wasn’t fully formed. … I was different. I was wild, I had a lot of feeling inside me. I could hardly keep my hands beside myself and I think to kind of criticize a body of a young woman at that time and to make her feel conscious of that was lazy and, I think, boring.

On filming parts of the 2026 film The Bride! while pregnant

I really loved working when I was pregnant. I thought it was a pretty wild experience, especially because I was playing Mary Shelley and I was talking about [this] monstrosity, and here I was with two heartbeats inside me. Becoming a mom and being pregnant did something, I think, for me. My experience of it, it’s so real that it really focuses [me to be] allergic to fake or to disconnection.

Since my daughter has come and I know what that connection is and the real feeling of being in a relationship with somebody … as an actress, it’s very exciting to recognize that in yourself and really take ownership of yourself.

I’m excited to go back and work on this other side of becoming a mother in so many ways, because I’ve shed 10 layers of skin by loving more and experiencing life in such a new way with my daughter. I’m also scared to work again because it’s hard to be a mother and to work. That’s like a constant tug because I love what I do and I’m passionate and I want to continue to grow and learn and fill those spaces that are yet to be filled — and also be a mother. And I think every mother can recognize that tug.

On the possibility of bringing her daughter to travel with her as she works

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I haven’t filmed for nearly a year and I cannot wait. I’m hungry to create again. And my daughter will come with me. She’s seven months, so at the moment she can travel with us and it’s a beautiful life. And she meets all these amazing people and I have a feeling that she loves life and that’s a great thing to see in a child. And I hope that’s something that I’ve imparted to her in the short time that she’s been on this earth is that life is beautiful and great and complex and alive and there’s no part of you that needs to be less in your life. You might have to work it out, but it’s worth it.

Lauren Krenzel and Susan Nyakundi produced and edited this interview for broadcast. Bridget Bentz, Molly Seavy-Nesper and Beth Novey adapted it for the web.

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‘Evil Dead’ Star Bruce Campbell Reveals He Has Cancer

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‘Evil Dead’ Star Bruce Campbell Reveals He Has Cancer

Bruce Campbell
I’m Battling Cancer

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‘Scream 7’ takes a weak stab at continuing the franchise : Pop Culture Happy Hour

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‘Scream 7’ takes a weak stab at continuing the franchise : Pop Culture Happy Hour

Neve Campbell in Scream 7.

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The OG Scream Queen Neve Campbell returns. Scream 7 re-centers the franchise back on Sidney Prescott. She has a new life, a family, and lots of baggage. You know the drill: Someone dressing up as the masked slasher Ghostface comes for her, her family and friends. There’s lots of stabbing and murder and so many red herrings it’s practically a smorgasbord.

Follow Pop Culture Happy Hour on Letterboxd at letterboxd.com/nprpopculture

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