Education
Would Schools Close in a Future Pandemic?
Over the course of 20 days in March 2020, 55 million American children stopped going to school as Covid-19 swept the United States.
What was impossible to anticipate then was that millions of those students would not return to classrooms full-time until September 2021, a year and a half later.
Those children and teenagers, often in public schools in Democratic areas, remained online at home while private schools, child-care centers, public schools in conservative regions, office buildings, bars, restaurants, sports arenas and theaters sputtered back toward normalcy.
Five years on, the devastating impact of the pandemic on children and adolescents is widely acknowledged across the political spectrum. School closures were not the only reason the pandemic was hard on children, but research shows that the longer schools stayed closed, the farther behind students fell.
What would happen if another health crisis came along — a pressing concern, as cases of measles and bird flu emerge? In the face of a new unknown pathogen, how would school leaders and lawmakers make decisions?
“It’s so important for Democrats to do a retrospective on this episode,” said Representative Jake Auchincloss, Democrat of Massachusetts, who represents a district in the Boston suburbs where some schools were fully or partially closed for a year. He has argued that during the pandemic, his party “over-indexed” toward the views of teachers’ unions and epidemiologists, who often pushed for a slow, cautious approach to reopening schools.
The extended closures “crystallized how the party has been failing in governance,” Mr. Auchincloss said.
In some ways, moving to online learning would be easier next time, now that nearly all schools give students their own laptops or tablets. And in places where schools remained closed longer, some people in positions of power, including health officials and leaders of local teachers’ unions, say they stand by the decisions they made at the time.
Still, in interviews with more than a dozen leaders in health, education and politics, including some who were key figures at the time, others said they would take a different approach in the future, and try to do more to avoid extended shutdowns for entire school districts.
“Yes, I’ve learned a lot from this,” said Randi Weingarten, president of the American Federation of Teachers and a powerful force in Democratic politics who at times worked behind-the-scenes to negotiate reopenings. She also stood by locals in places like Philadelphia and Chicago, where union members fought for vaccines, tests, ventilation and other safety measures — even after classrooms in other parts of the country had reopened.
Ms. Weingarten defended her members’ right to work safely and emphasized the importance of ventilation, but said she would strive to be clearer in the future that “kids have to be the priority.” That includes in-person instruction, she said.
“I thought I was pretty loud,” she added. “I would be even louder.”
Conflicting advice in 2020
Few education or health leaders doubt that it was right for schools to close in March 2020, when much about Covid-19 was unknown.
But by early that summer, there was a spate of evidence that pointed toward a careful reopening. Classrooms had reopened abroad, with research showing that there was limited spread of the virus inside schools. It was becoming clear that children tended to be less severely affected by the virus than many adults were, and that young children were less likely to spread the disease.
The American Academy of Pediatrics issued a report in June 2020 recommending that schools reopen. Republican-run states like Texas and Florida forged ahead with plans to offer in-person instruction to families who wanted it.
Yet thousands of schools in Democratic-majority states like California, Oregon, Washington and Maryland stayed closed or partially closed for another full year.
Policymakers who had a role in those decisions argue that applying evidence from abroad was difficult because of several factors, including higher U.S. infection rates, less consensus around masking and limited availability of virus tests.
The politicization of the pandemic also played a role. President Trump repeatedly called on schools to reopen, while many Democratic officials and advocacy groups fought for stricter safety measures and more federal aid to schools.
In addition, conflicting advice from health experts caused confusion.
The Centers for Disease Control had, at times, recommended greater precautions than the pediatrics academy did, including maintaining six feet of distance between desks. In the summer of 2020, health agencies in states like California advised schools to remain closed in areas where case levels were high — which was almost everywhere.
The California Department of Public Health declined to respond to questions about their approach to school closures for this article.
Becky Pringle, president of the National Education Association, the country’s largest teachers’ union, said that following cautious public health guidance was the right approach, and is the one she would follow again.
“What we needed to do was to listen to infectious disease experts,” Ms. Pringle said.
She pointed out that rates of infection and death were higher in low-income communities of color, and that many parents preferred to keep their children at home.
“You try to make the best decisions with the information you have,” she added.
Sean O’Leary, a pediatric infectious disease specialist at the University of Colorado and the lead author of the academy’s report, recalled that some teachers pushed back against the report’s recommendations by pointing to crowded classrooms, dated H.V.A.C. systems and sealed-shut windows in their schools, many of them in low-income urban neighborhoods.
The teachers argued that reopening schools would be dangerous, and they organized marches — outdoors and masked — to demand that classrooms remain empty until virus transmission rates fell essentially to zero.
Dr. O’Leary said it was clear even at the time that those demands failed to consider what he called “the bigger picture.”
“What are the downstream consequences of closing schools?” he asked. “Is this the right decision as a society?”
Local officials who wanted to reopen schools sometimes found that their plans were superseded by governors and state health officials.
Heidi Sipe, the superintendent in Umatilla, Ore., a rural district that serves mostly Hispanic and low-income students, remembered releasing a video detailing a complex reopening plan for her district in the fall of 2020, only for the governor to announce shortly afterward that all Oregon schools would be remote that fall based on infection rates.
“It was devastating for us,” she said. “The challenge of that was the organizational trust that was lost — because so many of our families lost faith.”
Oregon’s school strategy mirrored a cautious approach to the virus more broadly in many Democratic states. “I’m proud overall of our response,” said Dr. Dean Sidelinger, Oregon’s state health officer, who noted that Oregon had one of the lower Covid mortality rates in the country.
But research now suggests that keeping schools closed was not a significant factor in slowing the virus, particularly after other parts of society were up and running. More people died in some Republican regions, Dr. O’Leary said, “not because the schools were open, but because they didn’t wear masks and didn’t get vaccinated.”
Would leaders make different decisions today?
Almost everyone in education acknowledges that extended school closures were damaging. Academic achievement plummeted and has not recovered. Student absence rates are double their prepandemic levels. And remote learning pushed children further into screens and away from learning and play in the physical world.
But even today there is not broad consensus about whether the lengthy closures were necessary.
Brent Jones, superintendent of Seattle Public Schools, said he was “not apologetic” about his system’s 18-month period of virtual and hybrid learning, one of the longest in the country.
“I saw it as a forced opportunity to step back,” he said. “We were called upon, frankly, to expand our mission to include many other things: nutritional, social, emotional, mental health. There was a cry for support. Schools stepped into that gap.”
Seattle also made investments in ventilation that he said could help keep classrooms open during another pandemic.
In some other cities, ventilation remains a sticking point, particularly in old school buildings.
“We would insist that the buildings be safe before they are occupied,” said Arthur G. Steinberg, president of the teachers’ union in Philadelphia, where dozens of school buildings do not have updated H.V.A.C. systems.
Still, he and others said that they would be more apt to consider school closures on a building-by-building basis, rather than pushing for systemwide shutdowns.
Stacy Davis Gates, president of the Chicago Teachers’ Union, acknowledged that some city schools “could have probably been fine” reopening sooner, but noted that they tended to be the ones in more affluent neighborhoods.
“How do you continue to create a policy that marginalizes people who have been marginalized for years?” she asked in an interview late last year.
Ms. Weingarten, the national union leader, said that in a future crisis, she would urge local unions to come up with their own safety plans, and to be creative in order to educate children in person — an approach many parents were desperate for during the Covid shutdowns.
If school buildings do not have proper ventilation, she said, “then you find other buildings within the city.”
Still, politics, not logistics, may be the biggest obstacle in a future health emergency.
Public trust in science and schools fractured during the pandemic and remains low, especially among Republicans. Governors and state leaders could once again split along partisan lines. If anything, over the last five years, Americans’ views about vaccines, public health and education have only become more divided and politicized.
Some of the mistrust seeded by the pandemic has spilled over into other arenas of education.
Debates about schools now often focus on how race, gender and American history are taught. Republicans are pushing new state laws to provide public money for families to send their children to private schools. The number of children nationwide who are using some form of private-school voucher has doubled since 2019, to more than 1 million.
Partisans on both the right and left say those trends might not have taken off without the widespread anger and frustration arising from how the education establishment handled Covid-19.
Public health experts caution that their guidance in a future health crisis would depend on the particular disease. A future pathogen could be far more dangerous for children or teachers than Covid-19 was.
“We don’t know what could be coming,” said Sean Bulson, the superintendent of schools in Harford County, Md., outside Baltimore. But based on what was learned over the past five years, he said, “our threshold for closing probably got higher.”
The federal government annually spends billions funding research at Harvard, part of a decades-old system that is little understood by the public but essential to American science.
This spring, nearly every dollar of that payment was cut off by the Trump administration, endangering much of the university’s research.
Grants terminated at Harvard
This picture represents nearly every grant the government has canceled at Harvard.
This one has tracked the health of 116,00 American women continuously since 1989.
This one supported domestic Ph.D. students training to be America’s next neuroscientists.
This one studied the role of telemedicine in treating opioid addiction.
These two probed how salamanders regenerate their legs, to eventually aid human amputees.
These sought advances that could one day enable Navy divers to breathe underwater without oxygen tanks.
This one funded work with rural school districts to test ideas to lift student outcomes and attendance.
Now all of these projects are in jeopardy.
The New York Times was able to identify more than 900 terminated grants, using court records, government databases and other internal university sources — a near-complete accounting of the cuts in the Trump administration’s escalating campaign to cripple the university.
The White House and Harvard have resumed negotiations to resolve the government’s claims that the nation’s oldest university has “failed to live up to both the intellectual and civil rights conditions that justify federal investment.” But while researchers await the outcome — or that of a parallel lawsuit brought by Harvard — the federal support for every one of these projects remains halted.
The Trump administration has canceled research grants at other universities, too, ending studies related to racial diversity and equity, scaling back the reach of federal science agencies, and sometimes attacking universities it views as ideological foes.
But Harvard is unique both in the volume of its research output and the extent of these cuts — the government has threatened to end every research dollar to the university. The canceled grants accounted for here add up to about $2.6 billion in awarded federal funds, nearly half of which has already been spent according to government data.
“Even ‘grant’ is a problematic word, because people think they’re just sort of handing this money out for us to do what we want with,” said Marc Weisskopf, who directs a center for environmental health at Harvard that lost its funding from the National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences.
On the contrary, the government is much more explicit in competitive research applications and grant reviews: It wants more neuroscientists. It wants better opioid treatment. It wants to know how lightweight origami-inspired shelters and antennas can be unfurled in war zones.
The money the government sends to Harvard is, in effect, not a subsidy to advance the university’s mission. It’s a payment for the role Harvard plays in advancing the research mission of the United States.
This is the science model the U.S. has developed over 80 years: The government sets the agenda and funds the work; university scientists design the studies and find the answers. The president’s willingness to upend that model has revealed its fragility. There is no alternative in the U.S. to produce the kind of scientific advancements represented by these grants.
Foundational discoveries and future cures
Much of what the government funds at universities is “basic” research — the foundational knowledge that lays the groundwork for technological advances, disease cures and improvements in quality of life.
Daniel Nocera, a Harvard chemist, had four total grants terminated from the Department of Defense, the Department of Energy and the National Science Foundation. His lab develops new chemical methods to address practical problems, such as developing an artificial leaf that can convert air and sunlight into biofuels, or extracting oxygen from seawater so that divers could one day swim without a heavy oxygen tank.
“I have to answer these questions that a company doesn’t have time to answer,” he said.
That’s because basic research takes years. And it produces insights that aren’t profitable on the time scale of corporate quarterly earnings.
Stephen Buratowski’s project to understand how genes are expressed and regulated is in its 25th year of federal funding. An early discovery in his lab used yeast cells to reveal how different steps are coordinated in the formation of messenger RNA, a mechanism later confirmed in human cells by researchers at other universities. Today, 20 years later, several companies are testing potential cancer treatments built on that knowledge.
Such long-term federal investments are inherently risky and expensive (a single tube containing a teardrop size of purified enzyme used in Professor Buratowski’s lab costs $400 to $500). And some ideas don’t prove as fruitful. But the government can bear this risk better than industry or individual universities can.
“It’s almost as if the government is acting as a venture capitalist,” Professor Buratowski said. “They’re putting out an ad saying, ‘We’ve got a pool of money, send us your best ideas.’”
Dragana Rogulja’s Harvard lab studies how chronic sleep deprivation harms the body. Her lab discovered that when fruit flies or mice are deprived of sleep, it damages their gut, which can be fatal. But when sleep-deprived flies were then treated with antioxidant drugs, they had normal life spans.
She received a grant from the Department of Defense’s health agency to detect biological signals in samples of blood, urine or saliva that warn of organ damage from sleep loss in mice. “If we are right,” her research proposal stated, “this would be a major breakthrough that would offer practical ways to mitigate health damage caused by poor sleep.”
Without researchers at Harvard or other universities doing this foundational work, it’s not clear who would. The government doesn’t have the expertise. Companies don’t have the luxury of time. And this same research would cost far more outside academia, where it runs on graduate students working long hours at relatively low cost.
Evidence for public policy
Other grants at Harvard produce something different from a lab discovery or a medical cure. This research provides evidence that shapes public policy, like nutritional guidelines, federal laws or local education initiatives.
A federal rule in 2018 banned artificial trans fats, following the findings of a decades-long longitudinal study of women’s health based at Harvard.
“A lot of things we take for granted — ‘Oh, everybody always knew that’ — no actually, we published those findings,” said Walter Willett, a professor of epidemiology and nutrition who leads that study.
Of similar direct interest to the government, other Harvard researchers are trying to determine how well telemedicine appointments — sometimes paid for by Medicaid and Medicare — connect opioid use disorder patients with lifesaving treatments. (Some of the National Institutes of Health funding for that research goes right back to the government, in the form of fees to access Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services health data).
Other researchers are studying how well community college students have fared amid remote learning, after a pandemic boost in federal support for community colleges. Others are working on how to implement smoke-free policies in low-income housing after a move by the Department of Housing and Urban Development to curb secondhand smoke.
“We are directly informing the government’s capacity to work to serve its constituents,” said Vaughan Rees, the lead investigator on that HUD-funded research.
Just as much of basic research couldn’t be done in corporate labs, this kind of work — often relying on large-scale surveys, or partnerships that cross universities, hospitals and countries — couldn’t be funded by Harvard alone.
“No university could do that,” said Lisa Berkman, a professor of public policy and epidemiology who works on international studies. “This is science that rests on a public investment.”
Training the next generation of scientists
Federal funding also fosters not just science, but scientists. Grants pay the salaries of graduate students and postdoctoral researchers. Grant terms regularly require that lead researchers incorporate student training into their work.
Jessica Whited, a professor of stem cell and regenerative biology, was the first in her family to become a scientist. As an undergraduate, she earned a scholarship at the University of Missouri and worked part-time under the federal work-study program. As an early-career researcher, her research was funded by competitive N.I.H. grants.
“I wouldn’t be sitting here today without the government,” she said.
Her lab studies how the axolotl, a salamander species, can regenerate its limbs, producing insights that could lead to treatments for human amputees. In 2019, President Trump awarded her the Presidential Early Career Award, the nation’s highest honor for early-career scientists and engineers. Last month, the government canceled the grants that provided nearly all of her funding.
The canceled grants highlighted below are specifically designed for training and professional development. They include National Science Foundation fellowships for undergraduates, graduate students, postdoctoral researchers and early-career researchers, and similar training opportunities from the N.I.H. Together, these awards cover about a tenth of the total funding cut by the government at Harvard.
Terminated grants for training and career development
Paul Bump, a postdoctoral fellow, was just awarded one of these grants — the first of his career — in January. He wants to uncover the fundamental mechanisms of where stem cells come from in certain animals that, unlike humans, continue to produce them throughout their lives. (He works, in particular, on the three-banded panther worm, which can regenerate into two worms when cut in half.)
“What are the grand biological processes that explain that?” he said, describing what amounts to nature’s solution for making stem cells. The public’s down payment on the answer was about $75,000 a year to fund Mr. Bump’s work for two years.
Harvard is trying for now to provide stopgap funding for many of these researchers and students, but it can’t permanently replace the government. That’s also because federal funds support much of the infrastructure that researchers rely on. Grants also cover the indirect costs Harvard pays to maintain facilities and research support staff. And some larger grants directly fund research hubs that assemble shared resources and facilities for many scientists from different specialties working on related topics.
For 18 years, Harvard has hosted a center studying worker safety, health and well-being funded by the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health, an arm of the C.D.C., where researchers from multiple institutions have studied the health of construction workers, Sept. 11 first responders, health care workers and warehouse workers.
The center’s canceled grant jeopardizes its active research projects, but also the partnerships with hospitals, insurance companies and employers that have taken years to develop, said Glorian Sorensen, a Harvard professor who co-directs the center.
“This is larger than any individual grant,” she said. “What we are losing is a future.”
Explore the data
Click on the chart below to explore the canceled grants for yourself:
About the data
To account for Harvard’s terminated grants, we used data from multiple sources: letters from government agencies included in court filings by the university; lists of terminated grants provided by the Department of Health and Human Services and the National Science Foundation; a crowd-sourced list of grant terminations at Grant Watch; and some additional data from internal university sources. We interviewed 23 researchers whose grant funding was terminated, who confirmed those specific cancellations.
Our charts show the total obligated amount for each grant using data from USAspending.gov, which reflects the funds that the government has set aside for each project. In cases where a grant was extended or renewed, this figure typically accounts for the entire lifetime of the grant to date, and not just the most recent renewal. Obligated funds for multiyear grant awards are typically paid out gradually over a number of years. Our charts do not account for this outlayed spending — the portion of these obligated funds that have been paid by the government so far — because there are substantial lags in this spending data for some agencies. This analysis did not include the $100 million or so in federal contracts, separate from grants, much of which also fund scientific research.
A federal district judge on Monday delayed a ruling on whether to continue blocking President Trump’s proclamation that barred international students from attending Harvard University.
A temporary injunction on implementing the proclamation remains in place until next week.
Judge Allison D. Burroughs said she would rule by next week on the White House proclamation, after hearing arguments from lawyers for both Harvard and the Trump Administration on Monday morning.
About 5,000 international students are enrolled at Harvard. Another 2,000 recent graduates are in the United States on visas permitting them to work temporarily.
Losing those students could deliver a disabling blow to the campus’s finances, curriculum and identity.
This story is developing. Please check back for updates.
Fill in the blank: I’m feeling “blank” about the
way things are going in the country these days. Fill in the blank: I’m
feeling “blank” about the
way things are going in
the country these days.
Anaka, 23, Pa., Black, ind.
Alaura, 23, Tenn., white, ind.
Darrion, 26, Ind., Black, Rep.
President Trump is trying to remake the global economy. He’s overseeing a much more restrictive and aggressively enforced immigration policy. Artificial intelligence is, potentially, about to change everything. In the past five years, everyone has lived through a pandemic and serious inflation for the first time in generations.
In Opinion’s latest focus group, we spoke with 13 young people — 12 relatively recent college grads and one rising college senior — navigating the rocky surface of all this change in America, about issues ranging from Mr. Trump’s presidency to how they’re using A.I. in everyday life.
How much the economy of the past five years has shaped the mind-set of 20-somethings really came through in the conversation. The group described doubts about the degrees they sought, worries and frustrations about the cost of living, dreams that emphasized financial stability and making money, the realities of still getting help from family and the enduring economic and social effects of the pandemic on their generation. “I think it made us less social and more on our phones,” one participant said. “It was really isolating.”
All of this, including real divides in the group about systemic factors and individual ambition, led to some big questions, the kind you might be asking yourself: Is America in decline, or are the best days ahead? Is America the kind of place where, if you work hard and play by the rules, you can thrive? And most important, what would you want to know about your future?
Participants
Alaura 23, Tennessee, white, independent, mental health care
Anaka 23, Pennsylvania, Black, independent, program coordinator
Armaan 23, Massachusetts, Asian, Republican, looking for work
Bayleigh 24, Texas, white, Democrat, nurse
Conner 23, Florida, white, Republican, master’s student, server
Daniel 26, Georgia, white, independent, landscaper
Darrion 26, Indiana, Black, Republican, automotive engineer
Emily 20, New Jersey, white, independent, student, fitness instructor
Evan 23, New York, Latino, Republican, administrative assistant
Heather 23, Oregon, white, Democrat, assistant
Jeff 25, Utah, white, Republican, cybersecurity analyst
Jonnie 27, Missouri, Latino, Democrat, looking for work
Molly 21, Illinois, white, Democrat, looking for work
Transcript
Moderator, Margie Omero
Fill in the blank: I’m feeling “blank” about the way things are going in the country these days.
Armaan, 23, Massachusetts, Asian, Republican, looking for work
Hesitant.
Anaka, 23, Pennsylvania, Black, independent, program coordinator
Disappointed.
Evan, 23, New York, Latino, Republican, administrative assistant
Honestly, I was going to say the same: Disappointed.
Emily, 20, New Jersey, white, independent, student, fitness instructor
Yeah, disappointed, not hopeful.
Bayleigh, 24, Texas, white, Democrat, nurse
Nervous.
Alaura, 23, Tennessee, white, independent, mental health care
Interested.
Daniel, 26, Georgia, white, independent, landscaper
Fearful and uncertain.
Molly, 21, Illinois, white, Democrat, looking for work
Sad.
Jonnie, 27, Missouri, Latino, Democrat, looking for work
Nervous.
Darrion, 26, Indiana, Black, Republican, automotive engineer
Optimistic.
Conner, 23, Florida, white, Republican, master’s student, server
I’m going to say “optimistic” as well.
Heather, 23, Oregon, white, Democrat, assistant
Worried.
Jeff, 25, Utah, white, Republican, cybersecurity analyst
Cautiously optimistic.
Moderator, Margie Omero
Darrion and Jeff, why “optimistic”?
Darrion, 26, Indiana, Black, Republican, automotive engineer
I feel the economy, inflation, prices are going to get a little rough before they get rosy. But in the long run, it’s going to get better under the new president and all that, I think I have faith in him to do well.
Jeff, 25, Utah, white, Republican, cybersecurity analyst
There’s always going to be issues, regardless of who’s running the country, but I feel like the leaders of our country all have the same interests at heart, which is to improve the country, even though the way they’re going to go about doing that is different.
Moderator, Margie Omero
Alaura, tell me why you said “interested.”
Alaura, 23, Tennessee, white, independent, mental health care
I’m just interested in how it’s all going to play out, whether it’s tariffs or cutting funding for various government agencies.
Moderator, Margie Omero
Molly, you said “sad.”
Molly, 21, Illinois, white, Democrat, looking for work
I think I knew the outcome of the election wouldn’t be what I wanted. And it wasn’t. And going into this administration, I had an idea of what things would look like. You can have those expectations, but living through it — waking up to the news every day of this next thing that’s happening, this next structure that’s being threatened or challenged, this next thing that’s being stripped away from us — it just gives me an overwhelming feeling of sadness and genuine despair.
Moderator, Margie Omero
Emily, you said “disappointed, not hopeful.”
Emily, 20, New Jersey, white, independent, student, fitness instructor
Just disappointed, I think, in the economy and the way things are going and the way things cost so much. It just makes me feel like I’ll never be able to afford a house or get out on my own.
Heather, 23, Oregon, white, Democrat, assistant
I agree with Emily. As someone who lives at home with her parents, it’s hard to think about some of the good things nationally just because I can’t afford to live on my own. I just get worried about things that I probably won’t be able to do until I’m a certain age or things like that, where you’re young and you want to experience things, but it’s hard when things cost so much.
or the same four years from now? Do you think things will
be better, worse or the same
four years from now?
Alaura,
23, Tenn., white, ind.
Conner,
23, Fla., white, Rep.
Darrion,
26, Ind., Black, Rep.
Emily,
20, N.J., white, ind.
Evan,
23, N.Y., Latino, Rep.
Jeff,
25, Utah, white, Rep.
Jonnie,
27, Mo., Latino, Dem.
Anaka,
23, Pa., Black, ind.
Armaan,
23, Mass., Asian, Rep.
Molly,
21, Ill., white, Dem.
Bayleigh,
24, Texas, white, Dem.
Daniel,
26, Ga., white, ind.
Heather,
23, Ore., white, Dem.
Moderator, Margie Omero
Bayleigh, why do you think it will be the same?
Bayleigh, 24, Texas, white, Democrat, nurse
It’ll be the end of Trump’s administration, but I think the instability will remain consistent through the next four years.
Moderator, Margie Omero
Evan, what makes you think things will be better?
Evan, 23, New York, Latino, Republican, administrative assistant
I would just hope they’ll learn from their past mistakes. After four years, if you don’t get better or something, then what are you doing? So I would just hope. But from real life experience, knowing someone with immigration problems, I worry things will get worse because there’s no real structure to help people that have been here for years, that helped grow the economy, have been working and contributing and whatnot. People who shop at Walmart, who drive the cabs. They’re helping the economy. The ones trafficking people, those kinds of people, they should go. So I would just hope that the leaders’ habits would change. But sometimes they can just be the same.
Jonnie, 27, Missouri, Latino, Democrat, looking for work
I just think this administration will stabilize. I think it’s scaring a lot of people. Maybe I’m just being hopeful, too. But I think inflation will probably be better by then. I can’t imagine this direction forever. I think things will just stabilize.
in his second term so far, how would you grade him? If you were to give Trump
a grade on how he’s doing in
his second term so far, how
would you grade him?
Alaura,
23, Tenn., white, ind.
Conner,
23, Fla., white, Rep.
Emily,
20, N.J., white, ind.
Evan,
23, N.Y., Latino, Rep.
Jeff,
25, Utah, white, Rep.
Anaka,
23, Pa., Black, ind.
Daniel,
26, Ga., white, ind.
Jonnie,
27, Mo., Latino, Dem.
Armaan,
23, Mass., Asian, Rep.
Bayleigh,
24, Texas, white, Dem.
Molly,
21, Ill., white, Dem.
Jonnie, 27, Missouri, Latino, Democrat, looking for work
I gave him a C. Nothing horrible has happened, really. I guess that makes it OK. But at the same time, tariffs and stuff — I don’t like that.
Evan, 23, New York, Latino, Republican, administrative assistant
I gave him a B. I like how he’s trying to basically put certain countries on blast, or he’s giving them a stern warning about the products they’re sending us and their prices. He’s very smart in that regard of making sure that low-income consumers can buy products at a good rate. And I would say on immigration and whatnot, I think he’s doing pretty good. But then again, he’s even deporting people by accident and sending them to the crazy jail and across the world and whatnot, and they actually didn’t do anything. So I would say he cares about deporting immigrants, the ones that are doing bad, but then at the same time, he’s not knowing how to distinguish which ones are bad.
Moderator, Margie Omero
But that still leads you to a B?
Evan, 23, New York, Latino, Republican, administrative assistant
I like how stern he is, how focused he is on at least trying to get something done. But I mean, I feel as though Trump actually cares about creating change. Pep in his step, at least. Biden was, like, a Sleepy Joe.
Darrion, 26, Indiana, Black, Republican, automotive engineer
I gave him a C. I think it’s a little bit positive and negative. I’m positive in the sense that I like the way he’s portraying the image of America on an international scale, like the trade wars, tariffs and all that. And negatively because of his impact in cryptocurrency and the stock market. He created the $Trump coin, and since then, the crypto market has not really been the same. There’s been a lot of uncertainty, like bearishness and all that. So that’s negative.
Moderator, Katherine Miller
How are you or people you know experiencing the job market right now?
Daniel, 26, Georgia, white, independent, landscaper
I think it sucks. I think it’s the worst it’s ever been. It feels like there are thousands of people applying for a single job. I just feel like ever since Covid, things have been shifted and changed for the worse in the work force.
Jeff, 25, Utah, white, Republican, cybersecurity analyst
I just graduated about a month ago with a degree in information security, which I think is very highly technical. There are definitely jobs out there. The problem isn’t the market; it’s hiring managers and companies saying, “We don’t necessarily care about your degree. We want you to have four to five years of experience for an entry-level role.” The companies are just holding unrealistic standards for what entry level is.
Moderator, Katherine Miller
What do you feel like an entry-level job should be like? When you have your first job, what’s the kind of experience you should be getting out of it?
Jeff, 25, Utah, white, Republican, cybersecurity analyst
It should build off of the degree that you get in college or — not everyone goes to college — the certifications you get in trade school, for example. It should include mentorship from senior employees and have tasks that introduce you to what more advanced things are going to be like. And they should be able to train and build you up on the job.
Moderator, Katherine Miller
Heather, how do you feel like the job market is today?
Heather, 23, Oregon, white, Democrat, assistant
I have a job, and I think it always feels different when you don’t have one and are looking for one. But I’ve heard similar things to Jeff. It’s like the entry-level positions are wanting people with all this experience, where it’s not possible. I would say it’s not too good right now.
Moderator, Margie Omero
What’s going well or less well for you personally?
Conner, 23, Florida, white, Republican, master’s student, server
I’m looking at my finances, and I’m hoping that it’s going in a better direction.
Jonnie, 27, Missouri, Latino, Democrat, looking for work
I guess my personal life is going pretty well. Less well is I have no idea how I’m going to survive without my parents’ help or what I’m going to really do in the future.
Anaka, 23, Pennsylvania, Black, independent, program coordinator
I graduated last December, and I got my first real job paying me more than minimum wage. So you guys hang in there, for sure.
Moderator, Margie Omero
For folks who feel that things are not going well for them personally, who or what is standing in the way?
Armaan, 23, Massachusetts, Asian, Republican, looking for work
I do think the job market’s not in the best place right now. My friends and I just graduated over the summer, and we’re all looking for jobs. There are very few of us who have managed to even get to an interview position. I know people who are applying to upwards of, like, 80 and 100 jobs a day, because they assume it’s just volume that you have to go to eventually land that job.
Bayleigh, 24, Texas, white, Democrat, nurse
I landed my first real job, too. That’s helped me get over what was a big slump in my life. I felt really upset about myself. I was like, “I just got a degree. I’m smart. I know what I’m doing.” And nobody’s hiring, and nursing is a pretty big field. But it’s worked out now.
Moderator, Margie Omero
How does your life compare with how you thought it might be at this stage in your life?
Jonnie, 27, Missouri, Latino, Democrat, looking for work
I guess I thought maybe I’d be a little farther ahead, like maybe have a house or something, which now is so unrealistic.
Conner, 23, Florida, white, Republican, master’s student, server
I thought that postgrad, at least with my bachelor’s, that I would be moved out, living on my own. And now it just doesn’t make any sense. But it’s just not realistic. It would be unwise to move out.
Evan, 23, New York, Latino, Republican, administrative assistant
I’ve always been optimistic and practical about life. About five years ago, they gave away those stimulus checks. Everybody around me spent theirs, but I saved mine. I’m very grateful to have freedom every day to just work, to live. I’m perfectly fine. I’m just going to continue to have good structure in my life.
Bayleigh, 24, Texas, white, Democrat, nurse
I thought I would be a lot more independent from my parents. But I still feel pretty reliant on them.
How many people are living with family
members or are otherwise financially dependent
in some way on their family currently? How many people are living with
family members or are otherwise
financially dependent in some way
on their family currently? 9 people raised their hands.
Alaura, 23, Tenn., white, ind.
Anaka, 23, Pa., Black, ind.
Armaan, 23, Mass., Asian, Rep.
Bayleigh, 24, Texas, white, Dem.
Conner, 23, Fla., white, Rep.
Daniel, 26, Ga., white, ind.
Darrion, 26, Ind., Black, Rep.
Emily, 20, N.J., white, ind.
Evan, 23, N.Y., Latino, Rep.
Heather, 23, Ore., white, Dem.
Jeff, 25, Utah, white, Rep.
Jonnie, 27, Mo., Latino, Dem.
Molly, 21, Ill., white, Dem.
Moderator, Margie Omero
What do you hope for yourself in the next five years? Heather?
Heather, 23, Oregon, white, Democrat, assistant
I’m 23. I think that’s a little old to be living with my parents. But I got my degree and am working on that job right now. I’d like to find a single job, just one, that can hopefully pay my bills — rather than working two, like I am now — and make me live on my own.
Moderator, Margie Omero
What do you see for yourself or hope for yourself in the next 20 or 30 years?
Armaan, 23, Massachusetts, Asian, Republican, looking for work
In 20 years, 30 years, I’d like to have a business that’s just paying the bills and an offshoot of that business or another business that essentially is what grants me financial freedom to just enjoy my life and maybe even help other people along the way.
Daniel, 26, Georgia, white, independent, landscaper
I’d like to be completely financially stable, have a house, have kids, be able to support them all through college.
Jeff, 25, Utah, white, Republican, cybersecurity analyst
Along with affording my own home, I hope I’ll be able to have a higher-level management position. And I hope by that point, I’ll be able to just live a good life with family and some golden retrievers as well. That’s the dream.
Jonnie, 27, Missouri, Latino, Democrat, looking for work
I definitely think, yeah, very successful, married, kids, nice house, I hope all of that.
Molly, 21, Illinois, white, Democrat, looking for work
I just want to be healthy, have food in the pantry, a roof over my head — and an in-unit washer and dryer would be my dream, honestly — but financially independent.
Moderator, Margie Omero
How achievable do you think your dream is?
Jeff, 25, Utah, white, Republican, cybersecurity analyst
One thing that I’ve tried to get away from is never putting my success or my failures in the hands of other people. I just want to put my faith in myself rather than in people who make policy decisions in Washington. And I want to be in complete control.
Moderator, Katherine Miller
A couple of people mentioned Covid this evening. In terms of the impact that the pandemic had on your life, is there anything that you feel older people don’t get about the impact of the pandemic on you and people in your age bracket?
Heather, 23, Oregon, white, Democrat, assistant
Learning was so different because a lot of it was online. I’m not sure older people always get that.
Conner, 23, Florida, white, Republican, master’s student, server
I feel like our momentum slowed, because most of us were coming out of high school and going right into college. And I just feel like that time period during the pandemic either slowed us down or the companies that we would have been on track to work for laid off a bunch of their employees and are just keeping their core employees, and now they’ve gotten comfortable with just those employees. We’re the generation looking for jobs.
Armaan, 23, Massachusetts, Asian, Republican, looking for work
I was supposed to join college that year, but then because of Covid, I chose to defer a year and instead take that year to work with my dad in the family business.
Jonnie, 27, Missouri, Latino, Democrat, looking for work
Covid, at least for me and the people I know, I think it made us less social and more on our phones. It was really isolating.
Evan, 23, New York, Latino, Republican, administrative assistant
I feel like Covid made people feel — maybe it made people lazier. A lot of people I know dropped out of college. It felt like time was slowing down or on hold because Covid made things pause. You just got to be in your house or hang out with your friends, not thinking about life. I think some people started to care less about what they’re actually cultivating for their life.
Anaka, 23, Pennsylvania, Black, independent, program coordinator
I agree that Covid made us less social. I think it’s hard for us to talk to each other outside of our phones. We’re watching other people’s lives that look more successful than us. So there’s that false sense of competition that we have to deal with. There’s so much competition. And at the same time, we’re not talking to each other. So yeah, there’s definitely a sense of isolation in my generation. And I don’t think that was there before.
Moderator, Margie Omero
Let’s switch gears a bit.
personally use artificial intelligence? How often would you
say you personally use
artificial intelligence?
Bayleigh,
24, Texas, white, Dem.
Heather,
23, Ore., white, Dem.
Molly,
21, Ill., white, Dem.
Alaura,
23, Tenn., white, ind.
Anaka,
23, Pa., Black, ind.
Daniel,
26, Ga., white, ind.
Emily,
20, N.J., white, ind.
Jeff,
25, Utah, white, Rep.
Armaan,
23, Mass., Asian, Rep.
Conner,
23, Fla., white, Rep.
Darrion,
26, Ind., Black, Rep.
Evan,
23, N.Y., Latino, Rep.
Jonnie,
27, Mo., Latino, Dem.
Moderator, Margie Omero
The people who are using it every day, tell me how you’re using it.
Jonnie, 27, Missouri, Latino, Democrat, looking for work
I use it to help me with shopping and personal advice, job advice, diet and exercise advice, advice on everything — really, finances. I use it like a friend.
Darrion, 26, Indiana, Black, Republican, automotive engineer
I just started making content on YouTube and Twitch, and I use A.I. to write scripts.
Armaan, 23, Massachusetts, Asian, Republican, looking for work
I think it’s become like the new Google for me. Any sort of information I need, instead of going and typing it in Google, I just go to the app because I think it provides a little more in-depth analysis than Google would.
Moderator, Margie Omero
Has anybody used it for classwork?
Emily, 20, New Jersey, white, independent, student, fitness instructor
I’ll be honest. I use it for everything I do in school. I’ll give it my finance homework questions, honestly, because it’s like I’m never going to pass that class without it, because I just can’t understand it. This is simply the only way. I’ll use it to help me with papers to generate ideas.
Moderator, Margie Omero
Do you think it’s helped you learn more in those classes?
Emily, 20, New Jersey, white, independent, student, fitness instructor
I think it has made it easier. I feel like I’m using A.I. mostly in the classes where I don’t feel like the professor’s doing a good job at teaching me. Not everyone is made to be a teacher. Some of my professors also encourage me to use A.I.
Anaka, 23, Pennsylvania, Black, independent, program coordinator
We’re seeing an issue with the job market for entry-level jobs that require experience, and A.I. has taken some of the experiences that I guess we were supposed to be hands-on with.
Moderator, Margie Omero
Does anyone else think A.I. is replacing the entry-level job, so you need to come in with a little bit more experience?
Anaka, 23, Pennsylvania, Black, independent, program coordinator
I think that’s coming from both sides. I can tell when a job description was written by A.I., and I think there are a lot more graduates, more than the country has ever seen. Everyone I know has either been to college and graduated or at least tried to go. So it’s just an intense time.
Moderator, Margie Omero
I want to hear from some people who don’t use A.I. that often.
Heather, 23, Oregon, white, Democrat, assistant
I never really got on the A.I. bandwagon, really. I used Quizlet, I think, as a way some people were using A.I., and some classes, it feels like it’s giving you a little bit of an upper hand. So I think I tried to get away from that a little bit, because I didn’t want my future self to regret it.
Moderator, Margie Omero
Why would your future self regret it?
Heather, 23, Oregon, white, Democrat, assistant
Just because I think it would give me an upper hand. It would give me answers. And I don’t know, part of school is you really thinking about certain things. So I kind of wanted to actually do that in my last couple of years rather than use the internet.
Molly, 21, Illinois, white, Democrat, looking for work
A.I. just really freaks me out. In general, I don’t understand it, and I don’t want to be a part of it, really. I don’t want to give it information. I don’t want to help it learn.
Moderator, Margie Omero
What’s going to happen?
Molly, 21, Illinois, white, Democrat, looking for work
I just don’t like these big A.I. companies. I feel like they’re not very well regulated at this point. I have read about how terrible some of these things are for the environment. I don’t want to be judgmental, because I know how common it is, but I just see no need for it in my life.
Jeff, 25, Utah, white, Republican, cybersecurity analyst
I use A.I. just to help with my job functions. I feel like it’s definitely helped me become a little bit more efficient with the way that I do things.
Daniel, 26, Georgia, white, independent, landscaper
I don’t really use A.I. too much. It’s kind of affecting the job market, though, because it’s doing everything that a person could be doing, and it’s sifting through all the applications, maybe a person would see a certain résumé more positively than an A.I. would. It’s just too robot-y.
Moderator, Katherine Miller
How do you feel about the role that social media plays in your life?
Bayleigh, 24, Texas, white, Democrat, nurse
I personally only follow people that I know, and I have a private account, and I enjoy it. I only let people I know follow me. So it kind of feels like when my friends are away on trips and I’m looking at their story, I feel like I’m there with them. I do sometimes doomscroll on TikTok if I have too much time. And then I’ll start seeing things that people are accomplishing. And I’m like, “Man, I’m so behind.” So it’s definitely like a seesaw. You have to balance. And I think I’m getting better at that.
Anaka, 23, Pennsylvania, Black, independent, program coordinator
Social media used to be something that I wanted to use to interact with my loved ones. But I don’t think I want to use it for that anymore. As of right now, it just seems negative. I looked up what too much screen time does to your brain. And it is actually, like, diminishing gray matter. So in my generation and below, our gray matter is, like, being ruined. So I don’t know. I’m mad at social media. Yet I am still an avid social media user. But we don’t know a life without it. It’s like an addiction.
behind us or happening now? Are America’s best days
ahead of us, behind us or
happening now?
Alaura,
23, Tenn., white, ind.
Conner,
23, Fla., white, Rep.
Daniel,
26, Ga., white, ind.
Darrion,
26, Ind., Black, Rep.
Evan,
23, N.Y., Latino, Rep.
Jonnie,
27, Mo., Latino, Dem.
Molly,
21, Ill., white, Dem.
Armaan,
23, Mass., Asian, Rep.
Bayleigh,
24, Texas, white, Dem.
Emily,
20, N.J., white, ind.
Anaka,
23, Pa., Black, ind.
Molly, 21, Illinois, white, Democrat, looking for work
I don’t know, but I think about the past, about the history of this country — I don’t think those were our best days. I don’t think our best days are now. That leaves the future.
Darrion, 26, Indiana, Black, Republican, automotive engineer
I actually think that the trade wars and tariffs are a step in the right direction for the country. So I have hope for better days ahead.
Bayleigh, 24, Texas, white, Democrat, nurse
Because of what we’re currently going through, I just don’t feel positively about our future.
Emily, 20, New Jersey, white, independent, student, fitness instructor
I just don’t see the country ever being united again as it used to be or people loving it anymore.
Moderator, Margie Omero
When you say “united again as it used to be,” when was that time, do you think?
Emily, 20, New Jersey, white, independent, student, fitness instructor
Maybe, like, the early 2000s. I don’t think people were so against each other like now. I feel like it’s just like you’re either this or that. And it’s so far apart. I just feel like there wasn’t so much hate going on. Maybe that doesn’t sound right, but that’s what I think.
Moderator, Katherine Miller
Anaka, you said our best days are happening now.
Anaka, 23, Pennsylvania, Black, independent, program coordinator
I feel like history repeats itself. We’re always going to be living in the worst and the best times because of human nature. Social media, it kind of exacerbates a lot of opinions. But in real life, we’re all speaking right now about each other’s opinions. And there’s not one where I can’t get into someone’s head and think, “OK, I understand,” even if maybe I don’t agree. The time is now because we’re alive now.
statement? If you work hard and play by the
rules, you can have a good life and thrive. How much do you agree with
this statement? If you work
hard and play by the rules, you
can have a good life and thrive.
1 means I completely disagree. and 5 means I agree completely.
2
Anaka,
23, Pa., Black, ind.
Molly,
21, Ill., white, Dem.
3
Alaura,
23, Tenn., white, ind.
Armaan,
23, Mass., Asian, Rep.
Bayleigh,
24, Texas, white, Dem.
Conner,
23, Fla., white, Rep.
Daniel,
26, Ga., white, ind.
Darrion,
26, Ind., Black, Rep.
Emily,
20, N.J., white, ind.
4
Evan,
23, N.Y., Latino, Rep.
Jeff,
25, Utah, white, Rep.
Jonnie,
27, Mo., Latino, Dem.
Molly, 21, Illinois, white, Democrat, looking for work
I just think it’s, like, that pull-yourself-up-by-the-bootstraps mentality that I don’t really think is true. The American dream is like, if you just work hard, you’re going to have all the successes. You’re going to have a McMansion in the suburbs and a pool and five kids. And it’s just not the reality. You can work so, so, so hard and never reach those goals you have in your mind or those goals that have been artificially set for you.
Moderator, Katherine Miller
Evan, you said it was mostly true that if you played by the rules and worked hard, you could have a good life. Why?
Evan, 23, New York, Latino, Republican, administrative assistant
I feel like everything is mostly within your hands. Everything is for the taking. And as long as you don’t do the wrong thing, tax evasion and whatnot, you could do whatever you want. You could be very successful.
Moderator, Margie Omero
Let’s think a little about the big picture. Many of you recently graduated. What’s one thing you know now that you wish you knew when you were in high school?
Darrion, 26, Indiana, Black, Republican, automotive engineer
I wish I’d known more about cryptocurrency. I wish when I was in high school, I was able to get some coins. I think I would have been very rich by now.
Armaan, 23, Massachusetts, Asian, Republican, looking for work
I chose my university based on the co-op program, where you work for six months at a place. And I wanted to try a start-up, as well as an established corporate business. So I would probably go the other route and just do corporate because they would be more likely to hire in this day and age and not a smaller start-up.
Molly, 21, Illinois, white, Democrat, looking for work
I wish I would have appreciated being younger and being in high school more than I did. I think you always have a tendency to want to be older, want to be in college, want something different. You never appreciate it fully in the moment.
Daniel, 26, Georgia, white, independent, landscaper
I would say, go for a degree that actually matters. All degrees matter, but something that is going to get me a job, like a nurse, an engineer, a software engineer, something with computers. I went for a business degree. And I just feel like it’s a good, rounded degree to have. But I don’t know.
Heather, 23, Oregon, white, Democrat, assistant
I would probably tell myself to be more open-minded earlier on, about everything, anything.
Emily, 20, New Jersey, white, independent, student, fitness instructor
I would tell myself to save my money instead of spending it in stupid places. And I would also tell myself that nothing is ever that serious. I spent a lot of high school stressing out a lot and having a lot of anxiety about a lot of things. I just look back on it now and think, “You’re never going to remember that teacher or that one grade.” It’s not that deep. Some things are not that deep.
Moderator, Margie Omero
If you could ask a question of your older self and your older self had to tell you the truth, what would you ask?
Jeff, 25, Utah, white, Republican, cybersecurity analyst
I think the biggest piece of career advice — how I can escalate up the ladder as quickly as possible.
Anaka, 23, Pennsylvania, Black, independent, program coordinator
Are you happily married? And how did you fix your credit score?
Jonnie, 27, Missouri, Latino, Democrat, looking for work
I would ask, “Is there any person I should avoid, any types of people I should avoid?”
Conner, 23, Florida, white, Republican, master’s student, server
I would ask him if it was worth it to get a master’s or if I could do it without, because it’s a lot of money to spend for a career.
Armaan, 23, Massachusetts, Asian, Republican, looking for work
I would probably ask if I’m on the right path or not.
Bayleigh, 24, Texas, white, Democrat, nurse
I have zero idea. I don’t think I want to know.
Evan, 23, New York, Latino, Republican, administrative assistant
I’d probably ask him, “How can I tell where the success is at?” I want to be like Kevin Durant. I want to join all the shooters. I want to join All-Stars. I want to be at the right place at the right time. I want to be with the right people. So I want to just know where the process is at.
Darrion, 26, Indiana, Black, Republican, automotive engineer
What is the price of Bitcoin, and what projects would be best to invest in?
Heather, 23, Oregon, white, Democrat, assistant
Do we have a job that my degree is catered toward?
Emily, 20, New Jersey, white, independent, student, fitness instructor
I’d ask if we have a lot of money and if we’re happy.
Alaura, 23, Tennessee, white, independent, mental health care
I would ask my 40-year-old self if there’s anything that I should do that I might not be aware of.
Molly, 21, Illinois, white, Democrat, looking for work
Am I happy?
Moderator, Margie Omero
What do you think your 40-year-old self is going to say?
Molly, 21, Illinois, white, Democrat, looking for work
I have no idea. I hope they say yes.
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