Culture
How two obscure coaches built the basketball podcast top coaches swear by
Last week new Michigan coach Dusty May spent a day with the Miami Heat staff, then flew to Pittsburgh to trade ideas with Utah Jazz coach Will Hardy and Charlotte Hornets assistant Josh Longstaff. May will read any book or study any basketball team’s film if he thinks it might equip him with an idea or a play or a leadership tactic.
And part of his continuing education is a podcast from two coaches most basketball fans have never heard of.
While driving to lunch last February, May listened to Olympia Milano coach Ettore Messina break down the spacing concepts in his offense. The previous week, the voice of Tokyo Hachioji Bee Trains head coach Tyler Gatlin had come through May’s speakers. The next week he would hear from former NBA head coach Stan Van Gundy.
The globe-spanning lessons came from the Slappin’ Glass Podcast, which has turned into a word-of-mouth hit for coaches at every level of the sport, four years and 201 episodes in.
“I listen to every episode,” May said. “My staff listens to just about every episode. I think a majority of college coaches probably listen to it regularly.”
Jeff Van Gundy stumbled upon one of the hosts’ video breakdowns — they also have a weekly newsletter and YouTube channel — and was so impressed he called them up to say how great it was. Since then, he has encouraged some of his best friends in the business to go on their show, which is how two obscure basketball coaches who played together at Division III Chapman University end up on a call with Hall of Fame football coach Bill Parcells.
“Everybody’s wary of going on a podcast where they veer off into things that they aren’t able to discuss,” Van Gundy said. “They know they’re going to be straight basketball. There’s no ‘gotcha’ questions. It’s not overly dramatic clickbait, like ‘who’s the best player?’ … They’re truly trying to help coaches coach better.”
The show’s guest list features some of the most respected basketball coaches in the country — Brad Stevens, Geno Auriemma, Rick Pitino, Tom Thibodeau, Mike D’Antoni, the Van Gundy brothers, John Beilein, to name a few — and just as many big names in the international game. What started as a self-improvement project for the hosts has become a shop-talk paradise for coaches and hoops diehards at every level.
“You can put one of those on in an hour and you’re generally a better coach by the end of it,” said Saint Louis coach Josh Schertz.
Carney and Krikorian in Berlin, the night the idea for the podcast was hatched. (Courtesy of Dan Krikorian)
Dan Krikorian’s initial plan was to be a musician when he graduated from Chapman in 2007. Between tours, he made extra money giving shooting lessons, coaching a youth team, and eventually coaching the junior varsity team at his high school alma mater. “Once I stepped foot in the gym to coach, I was like, ‘OK, this is what I want to do,’” he said. In 2013, Krikorian returned to Chapman as an assistant coach. This summer, he was elevated to head coach.
Pat Carney played professionally for 12 seasons in some of Germany’s top basketball leagues. In 2018 he retired and stayed in Germany to pursue a coaching career. The two young coaches and former teammates stayed connected by phone, studying other teams around the world and talking ball. Over beers one night in Berlin after Krikorian’s band had played a show, Krikorian suggested they turn those jam sessions into a podcast and interview the coaches whose systems piqued their interest.
The idea was mostly forgotten until a year later, when Krikorian and Carney were discussing the motion offense of Division III Yeshiva University, which had just gone 29-1 running a modern-day replica of Bob Knight’s system at Indiana. Krikorian and Carney wanted to pick the brain of coach Elliot Steinmetz, so they set up a Zoom. Right before the meeting, Krikorian suggested he record it. He already had all of the sound and editing equipment; if it went well, he could turn the interview into their first episode.
The pandemic had made it more commonplace for coaches across the world to connect over video call. The podcast’s first episode, published on Aug. 17, 2020, was not as polished as what the Slappin’ Glass guys produce today, but they enjoyed it so much they decided to make it a weekly routine.
The audience was small at first — “our moms,” Krikorian jokes — but they got some bumps whenever a famous guest joined the show, like Jeff Van Gundy in February of 2021. The hosts put together a list of coaches they’d love to interview, took suggestions from coaching buddies, and then started shooting their shot. To their surprise, they rarely heard no.
“They ask really good questions,” said Alabama assistant Ryan Pannone, the show’s third guest while coach of the G-League Erie Bayhawks. “And as a result, because their product is good and they’ve had good coaches speak on it, more coaches are willing to come on because they listen to it.”
Their curiosity and research seems to loosen lips. Beilein, who has always been guarded with what he shared publicly about his two-guard offense, explained the teaching points to the Slappin’ Glass guys without hesitation, then praised the questions they had asked him.
“I haven’t talked basketball to anybody like this in a bit,” Belien said near the end of the interview.
Most coaches approach podcast interviews expecting to be dragged into story time, but the Slappin’ Glass guests quickly find themselves delving into the intricacies of their methods.
“That’s the ideal for us,” Carney says. “It’s not an interview. Let’s talk some hoops.”
The show’s ethos: Everything that a coach does is interesting.
“The best thing about basketball, and what keeps us having conversations fresh and new every week, is that there’s so many ways to win,” Carney said. “There’s so many ways to teach, so we’re never assuming there’s one right way. Otherwise we would have probably had that conversation, and we would have just wrapped up shop.”
Krikorian and Carney go into every interview with a few ideas of what they want to talk about from background reading and film study, but their ability to listen and ask insightful follow-up questions carries the conversation and sometimes leads them down a rabbit hole.
“That’s our favorite part of the podcast is when it goes someplace we didn’t even expect,” Krikorian said.
They often get coaches into uncharted territory during their regular segment called “Start, Sub, Sit,” a basketball-centric variation on a common forced-choice game. When Stevens joined the show, they asked him which of three Ted Lasso quotes he would start, sub and sit. (Stevens’ Start: “You know what the happiest animal on earth is? It’s a goldfish. You know why? It’s got a 10-second memory. Be a goldfish” — because you should never worry about what someone says about you or worry about missing a shot. “I love that,” Stevens said, “Let it go. Have shot amnesia.”)
Everything always comes back to the game, never going on a tangent that wouldn’t be applicable to coaching.
“We know the coach has 45 minutes to get on the treadmill, or they’re commuting for 40 minutes to work,” Krikorian says. “We don’t want to waste one second of their time with something that’s not valuable.”
Kirkorian (left) was named the head coach at his alma mater in August. (Alex Vazquez for Chapman University)
Relationships with coaches like Van Gundy have helped Krikorian and Carney land some of their most well-known guests, but what brings them the most pride is that the show’s downloads and listens no longer depend as heavily on name recognition. And they’ve been able to give some talented but lesser-known coaches a platform to share their knowledge and ideas.
“If you think about it, like the best players, they progress. They find a level. That’s not always true in coaches,” Van Gundy said. “Some do. And some, either by choice or by just lack of opportunity, don’t. But I think too many fans think the best coaches rise just like the players do. Not true.”
Krikorian and Carney have created a nice side hustle. Their podcast has multiple sponsors, and they average 30,000 to 40,000 downloads per month. Their newsletter has over 7,000 subscribers, with close to 1,000 of those paying for their premium content.
While their content is consumable for anyone who loves the game — not just coaches — it’s a niche audience. But the goal was never to become famous; it was to become better coaches.
“With coaching, you have to be proficient,” Carney says. “You have to know yourself. You have to work hard. But a lot of it is relationships, too, and this has allowed us to build genuine relationships and continue conversations past the podcast that have directly impacted our careers.”
During the interview for this story, Carney was in Poland with the German under-20 national team. The head coach of that team, Martin Schiller, was a guest in 2022 and kept in touch with Carney, eventually reaching out to ask Carney to join his staff this summer.
Krikorian says he’d be lying if he didn’t think about one day coaching at a higher level than D-III, but he’s living a pretty good life now as the head coach of his alma mater, in the backyard of where he grew up, building a sustainable business that was born from a whim during the pandemic.
“The people that I’m able to call for advice now,” Krikorian says. “It’s a dream of ours, honestly.”
ESPN analyst Fran Fraschilla, a fan and two-time guest, says what the Slappin’ Glass guys have done reminds him of an era long ago when coaches like Hubie Brown and Dean Smith went overseas to teach the game.
“What’s happened over two generations or three generations is the world is now teaching the game of basketball back to us,” Fraschilla says. “Slappin’ Glass has provided an incredible menu of international basketball ideas. They are the conduit for great basketball coaching information.”
(Top illustration photos courtesy of Alex Vasquez and @ralf.zimmermann.fotografie)
Culture
6 Poems You Should Know by Heart
Literature
‘Prayer’ (1985) by Galway Kinnell
Whatever happens. Whatever
what is is is what
I want. Only that. But that.
“I typically say Kinnell’s words at the start of my day, as I’m pedaling a traffic-laden path to my office,” says Major Jackson, 57, the author of six books of poetry, including “Razzle Dazzle” (2023). “The poem encourages a calm acceptance of the day’s events but also wants us to embrace the misapprehension and oblivion of life, to avoid probing too deeply for answers to inscrutable questions. I admire what Kinnell does with only 14 words; the repetition of ‘what,’ ‘that’ and ‘is’ would seem to limit the poem’s sentiment but, paradoxically, the poem opens widely to contain all manner of human experience. The three ‘is’es in the middle line give it a symmetry that makes its message feel part of a natural order, and even more convincing. Thanks to the skillful punctuation, pauses and staccato rhythm, a tonal quality of interior reflection emerges. Much like a haiku, it continues after its last words, lingering like the last note played on a piano that slowly fades.”
“Just as I was entering young adulthood, probably slow to claim romantic feelings, a girlfriend copied out a poem by Pablo Neruda and slipped it into an envelope with red lipstick kisses all over it. In turn, I recited this poem. It took me the remainder of that winter to memorize its lines,” says Jackson. “The poem captures the pitch of longing that defines love at its most intense. The speaker in Shakespeare’s most famous sonnet believes the poem creates the beloved, ‘So long as men can breathe or eyes can see, / So long lives this, and this gives life to thee.’ (Sonnet 18). In Rilke’s expressive declarations of yearning, the beloved remains elusive. Wherever the speaker looks or travels, she marks his world by her absence. I find this deeply moving.”
“Clifton faced many obstacles, including cancer, a kidney transplant and the loss of her husband and two of her children. Through it all, she crafted a long career as a pre-eminent American poet,” says Jackson. “Her poem ‘won’t you celebrate with me’ is a war cry, an invitation to share in her victories against life’s persistent challenges. The poem is meaningful to all who have had to stare down death in a hospital or had to bereave the passing of close relations. But, even for those who have yet to mourn life’s vicissitudes, the poem is instructive in cultivating resilience and a persevering attitude. I keep coming back to the image of the speaker’s hands and the spirit of steadying oneself in the face of unspeakable storms. She asks in a perfectly attuned gorgeously metrical line, ‘what did i see to be except myself?’”
‘Sonnet 94’ (1609) by William Shakespeare
They that have power to hurt and will do none,
That do not do the thing they most do show,
Who, moving others, are themselves as stone,
Unmovèd, cold, and to temptation slow,
They rightly do inherit heaven’s graces
And husband nature’s riches from expense;
They are the lords and owners of their faces,
Others but stewards of their excellence.
The summer’s flower is to the summer sweet,
Though to itself it only live and die;
But if that flower with base infection meet,
The basest weed outbraves his dignity.
For sweetest things turn sourest by their deeds;
Lilies that fester smell far worse than weeds.
“It’s one of the moments of Western consciousness,” says Frederick Seidel, 90, the author of more than a dozen collections of poetry, including “So What” (2024). “Shakespeare knows and says what he knows.”
“It trombones magnificent, unbearable sorrow,” says Seidel.
“It’s smartass and bitter and bright,” says Seidel.
These interviews have been edited and condensed.
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Culture
Classic and Contemporary Literature From France, Japan, India, the U.K. and Brazil
Literature
FRANCE
According to the writer Leïla Slimani, 44, the author of ‘The Country of Others’ (2020).
Classic
‘Essais de Montaigne’ (‘Essays of Montaigne,’ 1580)
“France is a country of nuance with a love of conversation and freedom and an aversion to fanaticism. It’s also a country built on reflexive subjectivity. Montaigne reveals all that, writing, ‘I am myself the matter of my book.’”
Contemporary
‘La Carte et le Territoire’ (‘The Map and the Territory,’ 2010) by Michel Houellebecq
“Houellebecq describes France as a museum, where landscape turns into décor and where rural areas are emptying out. He shows the gap between the Parisian elite and the rest of the population, which he paints as aging and disoriented by modernity. It’s a melancholic and yet ironic novel about a disenchanted nation.”
JAPAN
According to the writer Yoko Ogawa, 64, the author of ‘The Memory Police’ (1994).
Classic
‘Man’yoshu’ (late eighth century)
“‘Man’yoshu,’ the oldest extant collection of Japanese poetry, reflects a diversity of voices — from emperors to commoners. They bow their heads to the majesty of nature, weep at the loss of loved ones and find pathos in death. The pages pulse with the vitality of successive generations.”
Contemporary
‘Tenohira no Shosetsu’ (‘Palm-of-the-Hand Stories,’ 1923-72) by Yasunari Kawabata
“The essence of Japanese literature might lie in brevity: waka [a classical 31-syllable poetry form], haiku and short stories. There’s a tradition of cherishing words that seem to well up from the depths of the heart, imbued with warmth. Kawabata, too, exudes more charm in his short stories — especially these very short ‘palm-of-the-hand’ stories — than in his full-length novels. Good and evil, beauty and ugliness, love and hate — everything is contained in these modest worlds.”
INDIA
According to Aatish Taseer, 45, a T contributing writer and the author of ‘Stranger to History: A Son’s Journey Through Islamic Lands’ (2009).
Classic
‘The Kumarasambhava’ (‘The Birth of Kumara,’ circa fifth century) by Kalidasa
“This is an epic poem by the greatest of the classical Sanskrit poets and dramatists. The gods are in a pickle. They’re being tormented by a monster, but Shiva, their natural protector, is deep in meditation and cannot be disturbed. Kama, the god of love, armed with his flower bow, is sent down from the heavens to waken Shiva. Never a wise idea! The great god, in his fury, opens his third eye and incinerates Kama. But then, paradoxically, the death of the god of love engenders one of the greatest love stories ever told. In the final canto, Shiva and his wife, the goddess Parvati, have the most electrifying sex for days on end — and, 15 centuries on, in our now censorious time, it still leaves one agog at the sensual wonder that was India.”
Contemporary
‘The Complex’ (2026) by Karan Mahajan
“This state-of-the-nation novel, which was published just last month, captures the squalor and malice of Indian family life. Delhi is both my and Mahajan’s hometown and, in this sprawling homage to India’s capital, we see it on the eve of the economic liberalization of the 1990s, as the old socialist city gives way to a megalopolis of ambition, greed and political cynicism.”
THE UNITED KINGDOM
According to the writer Tessa Hadley, 70, the author of ‘The London Train’ (2011).
Classic
‘Jane Eyre’ (1847) by Charlotte Brontë
“Written almost 200 years ago, it remains an insight into our collective soul — or at least its female part. Somewhere at the heart of us there’s a small girl in a wintry room, curled up in the window seat with a book, watching the lashing rain on the window glass: ‘There was no possibility of taking a walk that day. …’ Jane’s solemnity, her outraged sense of justice, her trials to come, the wild weather outside, her longing for something better, for love in her future: All this speaks, perhaps problematically, to something buried in the foundations of our idea of ourselves.”
Contemporary
‘All That Man Is’ (2016) by David Szalay
“Though he isn’t quite completely British (he’s part Canadian, part Hungarian), Szalay is brilliant at catching certain aspects of British men — aspects that haven’t been written about for a while, now updated for a new era. Funny, exquisitely observed and terrifying, this novel reminds us, too, how absolutely our fate and our identity as a nation belong with the rest of Europe.”
BRAZIL
According to the writer and critic Noemi Jaffe, 64, the author of ‘What Are the Blind Men Dreaming?’ (2016).
Classic
‘Memórias Póstumas de Brás Cubas’ (‘The Posthumous Memoirs of Brás Cubas,’ 1881) by Machado de Assis
“Not only is it experimental in style — very short chapters mixed with long ones; different points of view; narrated by a corpse; metalinguistic — but it also introduces an extremely ironic view of the rising bourgeoisie in Rio de Janeiro at the time, revealing the hypocrisy of slave owners, the falsehood of love affairs and the only true reason for all social relationships: convenience and personal interest. After almost 150 years, it’s still modern, both formally and, unfortunately, also in content.”
Contemporary
‘Onde Pastam os Minotauros’ (‘Where Minotaurs Graze,’ 2023) by Joca Reiners Terron
“The two main characters — Cão and Crente — along with some of their colleagues, plan to escape and set fire to the slaughterhouse where they work under exploitative conditions. The men develop sympathy for the animals they kill, and one of them becomes a sort of philosopher, revealing the sheer nonsense of existence and the injustices of society in the deepest parts of Brazil.”
These interviews have been edited and condensed.
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Culture
6 Myths That Endure
Literature
The Myth of Meeting Oneself
“This is evident in Virgil’s ‘Aeneid’ (circa 30-19 B.C.) when Aeneas witnesses his own heroic actions depicted in murals of the Trojan War in Juno’s temple, and again in Miguel de Cervantes’s ‘Don Quixote’ (1605-15) when Quixote enters a printer’s shop and finds a book that has been published with fake details about his quest even as he’s living it,” says Ben Okri, 67, the author of “The Famished Road” (1991) and “Madame Sosostris and the Festival for the Brokenhearted” (2025). “In both stories, individuals throw themselves into the world and think they encounter objects, personae, obstacles and antagonists, but what they actually encounter is themselves. In our time, where our actions meet us in the echo chamber of social media, the process is magnified and swifter. Now a deed doesn’t even have to take place for it to enter the realm of reality.”
The Myth of Utopia
“I’ve always had trouble with the idea of utopia, feeling it derives its energy more from what it wishes to dismantle than what it wishes to enact,” says the T writer at large Aatish Taseer, 45, the author of “Stranger to History: A Son’s Journey Through Islamic Lands” (2009). “Ram Rajya, or the mythical rule of the hero Ram in the Hindu epic ‘Ramayana’ (seventh century B.C.-third century A.D.), like all visions of perfection, contains a built-in violence.”
The Myth of Invisibility
“Invisibility bears power and powerlessness at the same time,” says Okri. “In ancient cultures, it was a gift of the gods. Jesus, for example, walks unrecognized among his disciples, and in Greek myths, Scandinavian legends and ancient African tales, heroes are gifted invisibility in the form of cloaks, sandals or spells. Modern works like the two ‘Invisible Man’ novels, by H.G. Wells (1897) and Ralph Ellison (1952), and the ‘Harry Potter’ novels (1997-2007) by J.K. Rowling reach back to those ideas. But today, people talk about visibility as the highest form of social agency, while invisibility can render a whole class, race, caste or gender unseen.”
The Myth of Steadiness vs. Speed
“‘The Tortoise and the Hare,’ one of Aesop’s fables (sixth century B.C.), doesn’t necessarily strike a younger person as promising — possibly it has a whiff of morality in it,” says Yiyun Li, 53, the author of “A Thousand Years of Good Prayers” (2005) and “Dear Friend, From My Life I Write to You in Your Life” (2017). “But the longer I live and work, the more I understand that it’s the tortoiseness in a person that carries one along, not the swiftness of the mind and body of the hare.”
The Myth of Magic
“Ancient magical tales like Homer’s ‘Odyssey’ (late eighth to early seventh century B.C.) were allegories of transformation, of secret teachings,” says Okri, “whereas modern forms of magic are narrative devices and tropes of storytelling that continue the child’s wonder of life. I think of F. Scott Fitzgerald’s ‘The Great Gatsby’ (1925), Gabriel García Márquez’s ‘One Hundred Years of Solitude’ (1967) and, again, the ‘Harry Potter’ books. The intuition of magic persists even in these atheistic and science-infested times, where nothing is to be believed if it can’t be subjected to analysis. This is perhaps because the ultimate magic confronts us every day in the mystery of consciousness. That we can see anything is magical; that we experience love is magical; and perhaps the most magical thing of all is the imagination’s unending power to alter the contents and coordinates of reality. It hides tenaciously in the act of reading, which is the most generative act of magic.”
The Myth of the Immortal Soul
“ ‘The soul is birthless and eternal, imperishable and timeless and is not destroyed when the body is destroyed,’ says Krishna in the ‘Bhagavad Gita’ (second century-first century B.C.). This belief in the immortality of the soul — what used to be called Pythagoreanism in ancient Greece — is still the most pervasive myth in India,” says Taseer, “and has more influence over behavior and how one lives one’s life than any other.”
These interviews have been edited and condensed.
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