As far as wellness trends go, small talk isn’t sexy. The same with participating in civic government or helping a neighbor carry their groceries. But connecting with others might be the ultimate form of self-care, according to psychiatrist Joanna Cheek.

Shelf Help is a wellness column where we interview researchers, thinkers and writers about their latest books — all with the aim of learning how to live a more complete life.

In her book, “It’s Not You, It’s the World: A Mental Health Survival Guide for Us All,” published in February, the University of British Columbia professor makes a case for the health benefits of collective care. For example, Cheek cites research that connects altruistic behavior and a sense of purpose with reduced inflammation, as opposed to hedonistic pursuits, which can worsen inflammation.

Perhaps most importantly, Cheek warns how individual solutions aren’t enough to protect and heal us. “Emotional alarms” such as fear, guilt, shame and anger are healthy signals that help us avoid obstacles and find rewards, she says. When it comes to poverty, discrimination, isolation and other systemic problems, a sense of “moral distress” warns us away from harm and toward a more just, equitable society. And taking small steps to connect with others — even as simple as engaging in idle chitchat with a stranger — can be an impetus for broader change.

Portrait of author Joanna Cheek.

(Tegan McMartin)

“I’m constantly trying to think about socializing in the same way I think about exercise or physical activity,” says Cheek. “In the same way I eat a certain amount of vegetables or have a certain amount of quiet time to meditate, I think, ‘Have I had enough social contact today?’”

People obsessively track their steps. They might want to count their social interactions, too, she says. Those moments can build confidence and trust, until the momentum transforms us and the communities we call home.

This interview has been edited for length and clarity.

In the book, you quote the renowned psychiatrist Viktor Frankl, who wrote, “Happiness cannot be pursued. It must ensue.” Why should we focus on cultivating purpose instead of pursuing happiness?

There are a lot of studies that show that cultivating any emotional state — happiness in particular, but also calmness or lack of anxiety — actually backfires. The more we try to feel a certain way, we inevitably won’t, because we don’t have much control over how we feel and then we’ll compare it to some standard of how we should feel, which will only magnify our suffering.

Rather than chase an emotion, which is futile because our emotions are constantly shifting, we can chase purpose, which gives us a lasting sense of accomplishment, because we’re living in line with our values. That’s true wellness.

“It’s Not You. It’s The World” book cover bo Joanna Cheek, MD.

(Hachette Book Group)

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How can people who feel isolated take steps toward cultivating purpose with others?

There was a large study that reviewed studies on loneliness. It showed it posed the same risk as smoking 15 cigarettes a day. I was utterly shocked when I read that, and started a deep dive and met [author and professor of psychology at the University of Sussex] Gillian Sandstrom. Her research shows that connections don’t need to be with the love of our life, a tight-knit family or best friends. When we have contact with a barista at the coffee shop, someone delivering the mail or just say hello to a neighbor who’s walking their dog past you, these weak ties actually have similar benefits to having really deep, personal connections. She ran a study with students at her university and found even if they had no friends in class, if they talked to strangers, they felt better and had more wellness indicators.

When we’re separated from others, we haven’t really evolved that fast, so it sets off alarms in our bodies. When you talk to someone at the grocery store, it’s like, “Oh, I’m not alone, I’m OK, I belong to something.” It silences those alarms so they don’t keep going off.

So it’s beneficial for us to have social interactions. How does it help our communities?

The more that we’re connecting with each other, the more we’re talking across differences, the more that we speak with people of different lived experiences, different politics, different cultural backgrounds, different ages, different levels of health and abilities and needs, then we can have more empathy and really take care for each other and make decisions that are based on the truth that we’re all connected.

Building community can start with weak ties. It can be really scary to join a new group in person. When we talk about anxiety, we talk about graduated exposure, where we don’t expose ourselves to the scariest things right away. So sometimes baby steps can help us get comfortable with weak ties. Then, with time, we can move toward deeper contact.

I just had knee surgery this summer, and I ended up doing a lot of water walking in the pool for rehab, and I was amazed at this community pool. There were all these people who were either retired or injured there during the day and I would have so many conversations. And so often we think that these connections don’t matter because we’re not building a friendship that might continue on. What is the point? The point is that through each interaction, we’re building a sense of community for everybody. And it doesn’t have to be more than one interaction. It helps create a sense that we can trust each other and we can learn from each other. It feels good to be in connection and that makes us want to care for one another.

(Maggie Chiang / For The Times)

You mention the term McMindfulness in the book. Could you describe what that means and why it can be damaging?

Yeah, there are a lot of concerns about quick fixes for mental health. I speak a lot about how mental health is really about the health of our entire systems. When we sit with that, it can be overwhelming to recognize that we can’t be well until our systems are well. We can practice wellness, we can do the best we can, but feeling better in a sick world isn’t going to fix us. We need to fix the world. McMindfulness is taking people in a toxic workplace and giving them mindfulness classes and not changing the toxic structures of the workplace. We should ask, “Why are they having these symptoms? And how do we make this workplace healthy so that our workers aren’t constantly falling sick?”

People need a sense of agency to thrive. But examining big problems through a systemic lens can create the impression we don’t have control over our lives. How do you reconcile the two?

Every connection we have, every time we live in a way with care and kindness, when we’re offering mutual aid or caring for our neighbors, those little things become contagious. Day to day, we can choose if we’re going to share our resources, whether that be our time, our care, our inclusiveness. Every time we choose to care for others, it’s contagious. It creates a culture. And every little connection like that matters. So while stress and dysfunction can ripple outward, I think our kindness and our unity and our caring can also ripple outward.

That sounds wonderfully optimistic.

I think a lot about hope and I think hope has to be active. I think we can’t just passively wish for a brighter future. And so I like to think about what agency I have today. It doesn’t have to be becoming the next world leader or finding a cure for cancer. What matters is every little decision I make to make the world a little bit brighter.

The Super Mario Galaxy Movie is the ultimate piece of Nintendo fan service. Mario (Chris Pratt), Luigi (Charlie Day), Princess Peach (Anya Taylor-Joy) are on an outer space adventure to save Princess Rosalina (Brie Larson). The film features other beloved Nintendo characters like Bowser (Jack Black)  and Yoshi (Donald Glover) – and a few surprises. It’s a sequel to The Super Mario Bros. Movie, which made more than a billion dollars worldwide.

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Kid Cudi is lounging in a colorful attic much like the one in his childhood home in Cleveland.

He’s surrounded by treasures of his childhood: movie posters of “The Last Dragon” and “The Truman Show” (the latter inspired artwork for his latest album, “Free”), a Nintendo 64 game console, a vintage house phone with a long cord, posters of Outkast and Nirvana, a green lava lamp and at least a dozen Pokémon figures. A makeshift window on the back wall opens onto what looks like a portal to outer space.

“It’s kind of like the world outside of this attic,” the Grammy-winning and multihyphenate artist says, reaching toward the window as if he could leap through and enter another dimension. “It’s like you’re traveling through the cosmos.”

The ’90s-themed attic, which he says is a metaphor for his mind, serves as the backdrop for his latest project: a podcast called “Big Bro With Kid Cudi,” premiering Wednesday via Wave Sports and Entertainment.

The idea to launch a podcast began during the pandemic, when touring — and the world — came to a screeching halt. By then, Cudi, born Scott Mescudi, had already logged 20 years of a successful emo rap career, launched a clothing line, forged an acting career and created an animated film. Still, he was eager to explore a fresh frontier.

(Jason Armond / Los Angeles Times)

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“I was really hyped on the idea of having a weekly show where I’m kind of like shooting the s— with my friends and having real positive conversations,” says Cudi, 42. “I want it to be a light in people’s lives. Something they can just put on, tune out the world and have a good time.”

He named it “Big Bro” because that’s exactly how he’s been seen by fans and peers throughout his career.

“I realized that’s who I am,” says Cudi. “I’m the one that’s meant to show you what not to do in life and how to avoid the same mistakes that I’ve fallen for in my life.” Big Bro is also the name of his mental health foundation for youth that he launched earlier this year.

Inside Kid Cudi’s studio are posters of Wu Tang Clan and Nirvana, an Ohio license plate, a Polaroid camera, a Nintendo 64 and more.

(Jason Armond / Los Angeles Times)

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Now in his 40s, married and fully independent from a record label (hence the album title “Free”), Cudi is in a different place in life.

“I’m just so f— happy,” he says, flashing a luminous smile. His outfit, an Off White hoodie and a fleece bucket hat with a tortoise on the front, is just as uplifting and whimsical as his attitude. “People are going to see the joy on my face when they see the episodes. I think my fans really enjoy seeing me happy and that’s the most beautiful thing about my career — it’s that these fans really care about me.”

After years of opening up about his struggles with addiction, loneliness and depression through his music (on tracks like “Soundtrack 2 My Life,” “Trapped in My Mind” and “The Void”), in the press and in his 2025-released memoir. Despite being so vocal, Cudi still retains a mystique quality that fascinates fans. The podcast, he says, is a space for him to open up more than he already has.

“He’s a larger-than-life figure,” says John Fontanelli, director of original content at Wave and the lead producer on “Big Bro.” “He has a lot of different aliases and personas. He’s a very funny and relatable person and I think that comes through with him as a host.”

“I was really hyped on the idea of having a weekly show where I’m kind of like shooting the s— with my friends and having real positive conversations,” says Kid Cudi, 42.

(Jason Armond / Los Angeles Times)

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To bring his vision to life, Cudi teamed up with Wave Sports and Entertainment, which is home to shows like “7pm in Brooklyn” with NBA Hall of Famer Carmelo Anthony, “Straight to Cam” with hosts WNBA star Cameron Brink and NBA wife Sydel Curry-Lee and “So True” with comedian Caleb Hearon. Wave was the only company that was “gung-ho” about his show idea and building out the production set of his dreams, he says. Inspired by the set design for Big Tigger’s “Rap City: The Basement” show on BET, Cudi wanted to fill his podcast set with items that reflect his personality and energy.

“I love that set,” he says. “There was this theme where all the guests kind played along like they were really coming to his mom’s house and it was so cool,” he says.

Before filming his first episode, Cudi binged several podcasts and tapped people like writer, producer and actor Lena Waithe, whose guidance helped him navigate hosting and connect authentically with his guests. And of course, he created the catchy jingle for the show himself, which includes the lyrics “Big bro / chillin with big bro” in his signature flow.

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Each week, Cudi will sit down with a mix of unexpected guests for wide-ranging, playful conversations that uncover new sides of both his guests and himself. The premiere episode features entrepreneur and reality TV star Kylie Jenner, who rarely does podcasts or sit-down interviews.

“I think it will shed a lot of light on the sides of her life that she doesn’t normally talk about like motherhood, being a businesswoman and juggling both things,” says Cudi. “I was asking her very thoughtful questions and she was being very upfront and transparent, so I felt like this was like a really great episode to start with.”

Each Wednesday, Kid Cudi will sit down with a guest to talk about life, creativity and more.

(Jason Armond / Los Angeles Times)

Though fans may be expecting the show to tackle mental health and other difficult topics, Cudi plans to keep the conversations lighthearted and fun. “I feel like when we get into the mental health stuff, it can get really heavy and at least right now, I don’t want that to be the tone for the show,” he says. “This podcast, for me, needs to be really positive. The conversation needs to be fun, like no stress and not triggering for anyone.”

The podcast is just one piece of a much larger creative surge unfolding in Cudi’s orbit. Later this month, he will kick off the Rebel Ragers tour along with guests including M.I.A., A-Trak, me n ü, Big Boi and Cudi’s longtime producer, collaborator and friend, Dot Da Genius.

Under the artistic alias Scotty Ramon, he also hosted his first solo art exhibit, “Echoes of the Past,” at Ruttkowski;68 gallery in Paris. “I went years not knowing if I could paint and not only could I do it all along, there’s people in the world that are going to f— with it,” he says. He’s already finished with his next art collection, which he plans to showcase in New York next year.

With short films like “Mr. Miracle” and “Neverland” already under his belt, he’s been digging deeper into his director bag as well.

“I’m just so f— happy,” says Kid Cudi. “People are going to see the joy on my face when they see the episodes. I think my fans really enjoy seeing me happy and that’s the most beautiful thing about my career— it’s that these fans really care about me.”

(Jason Armond / Los Angeles Times)

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“I’m somebody who was raised watching the Wayans,” he says. “Some mother— who came in here and were like ‘We’re gonna do it like this.’ People like Robert Townsend and I just know what’s hot. I know what’s funny. I know what’s cool and I know what stories we haven’t seen.”

With his Mad Solar production and music management company, he is the star of an upcoming film called “God Backwards,” which he says will be released later this year. On top of all of that, he recently began streaming on Twitch (“Someone Cooked Here”), where he showcases his music making process including his four-track EP “Have U Bn 2 Heaven @ Nite?” which released in March.

As he continues to dive into different mediums, Cudi says the mission remains the same: to continue evolving, challenging himself artistically and inspiring people along the way.

“[It] makes me feel so good as an artist that I can take this leap into another realm and I’ll still have support,” he says. “There’s people who are like ‘Cudi painting now? Right now. What else you got, kid?’ I love it.”

“Big Bro With Kid Cudi” will drop new episodes every Wednesday starting April 1 on YouTube and other streaming platforms.