Utah
Thomas Lee retires from Utah’s Supreme Court, but still has big plans
Utah Supreme Courtroom Justice Thomas Lee poses for a photograph contained in the Utah Supreme Courtroom in Salt Lake Metropolis on Friday, June 10. He retired Thursday after 12 years on the courtroom however has plans to start out two new legislation corporations. (Spenser Heaps, Deseret Information)
Estimated learn time: 10-11 minutes
SALT LAKE CITY — Thomas Lee has at all times saved himself very busy.
When he left a legislation agency in 1997 to work as a professor at Brigham Younger College, he informed his spouse he would have extra free time.
“She type of smiled and winked at me and stated, ‘That sounds nice,’ and I might inform she had one thing in thoughts,” recalled Lee, who retired Thursday as affiliate chief justice on the Utah Supreme Courtroom.
“I stated, ‘Why do you might have that look in your face?’ And she or he stated, ‘Nicely, I do not actually consider you.’”
Lee stated his spouse, Kim, was proper. He continued training legislation on the aspect and stayed simply as busy as he had ever been. Throughout his time on the Utah Supreme Courtroom, he continued educating lessons on the aspect at Harvard, Chicago and BYU legislation colleges.
“I suppose I identical to to be busy,” he stated. “I really like the legislation. I am simply actually passionate in regards to the legislation and the way essential it’s.”
And when he lately determined to go away the Utah Supreme Courtroom and begin not one, however two non-public corporations along with persevering with to show college lessons, Lee stated he did not even attempt to inform his spouse that he can be much less busy.
Kim Lee stated her husband is at all times very succesful it doesn’t matter what he does, and this subsequent step in his life might be a possibility to mix lots of his many experiences and abilities. It is a step that she and her household are enthusiastic about, however none greater than Thomas Lee.
Utah Supreme Courtroom
Lee met Chief Justice Matthew Durrant earlier than he entered legislation faculty whereas working a summer time job on the agency the place Durrant labored. Lee stated individuals he met by way of that have, together with Durrant, helped him resolve that he needed to spend his profession in Utah.
Durrant stated Lee was at all times very respectful of different opinions whereas on the courtroom, which is a crucial trait.
“He makes the hassle to actually be sure that he understands the opposing view. So … you at all times really feel you are heard, even when in the end you would possibly disagree on the difficulty,” Durrant stated.
He stated Lee improved each opinion he participated in, whether or not he was the creator of the opinion or whether or not he was rigorously reviewing and including to what another person wrote.
“He is an especially exhausting employee, and actually a superb scholar and a jurist,” the chief justice stated.
He additionally known as Lee a beautiful colleague.
Lee stated he did not understand when becoming a member of the excessive courtroom as a decide how essential it’s for the opposite justices who else is appointed due to how intently you’re employed collectively.
“We’re a collegial physique and all the pieces we do is finished by majority vote — and never simply majority vote, but when somebody disagrees with you, they’re most likely going to put in writing about it in a printed opinion. … It will possibly trigger lots of work and lots of stress and lots of anxiousness if the courtroom is not functioning properly,” Lee stated.
In a collegial physique just like the Utah Supreme Courtroom, he stated dissenting and differing views must be welcomed. And Lee believes that in his time on the bench, the courtroom fulfilled that objective.
“I feel we’re good at listening to one another. After we resolve our instances, it is in a convention the place it is simply the 5 of us in a room and it is an actual debate. And typically it will go on for hours,” he stated.
Kim Lee stated she knew her husband can be a great Supreme Courtroom justice as a result of he’s detail-oriented, and cares about getting issues proper.
“He works tougher than anyone I do know. I feel he works actually exhausting as a result of he cares loads about ensuring … if his identify is on one thing, it’ll mirror, you recognize, the analysis he is executed and that it is executed proper,” she stated.
Utah justice system
Lee, 57, sees many ways in which the state’s justice program is excelling however stated he additionally sees room for enchancment, which is a part of the explanation he’s beginning two corporations as he retires from the Utah Supreme Courtroom.
One among his corporations will focus on appellate legislation, bringing instances earlier than appellate courts each in Utah and nationally. He stated there are some nice appellate attorneys in Utah, however there will not be many corporations with that specialty.
“It makes an enormous distinction to have an appellate specialist in a extremely essential leading edge case that comes up on attraction,” he stated.
Lee stated he could have a companion in that agency, John Nielsen, who argued dozens of instances earlier than him whereas he was on the Utah Supreme Courtroom. Lee stated he was impressed with Nielsen’s briefs and shows and even stated Nielsen was one of the best lawyer to seem earlier than the excessive courtroom whereas Lee was on the bench. The agency might be primarily based in Utah, however will even have a nationwide attain.
Lee believes one vital manner Utah’s justice system can enhance is by serving to extra individuals have entry to the system — one thing he stated the courts have been engaged on and making progress in, together with giving paralegals alternatives to deal with some authorized points themselves in a particular program. Lee stated it is not simply the decrease class, however typically the center class that may be priced out of the justice system.
He stated Utah’s courtroom system is a pacesetter on this space, and has created an innovation workplace devoted to engaged on methods to make authorized assist extra accessible.
“I feel we’re making some progress there. I feel there’s lots of work to do,” Lee stated.
Corpus linguistics? What’s that?
Lee stated many questions within the legislation rely upon how the general public would perceive a phrase or a phrase, and far of what a decide does is resolve ambiguity in language, whether or not that’s Utah code or a contract.
“We take an oath to be goal, to be impartial, and we have now to indicate our math once we make our selections,” he stated.
He stated judges will typically cite the dictionary, however in some instances the dictionary can have a number of contradictory meanings. For instance, Utah code says it’s a crime to “discharge” a firearm in sure circumstances, and in a single case it was unclear if discharge meant taking one shot or unloading a whole journal.
Whereas Lee was on the Utah Supreme Courtroom, he had a legislation clerk who had a level in linguistics and saved speaking about corpus linguistics. To resolve this situation, they checked out corpus linguistics, or how the phrase is being utilized by the inhabitants, which confirmed that when individuals use the phrase discharge when referring to a gun, it virtually at all times means one shot.
Lee stated, initially, different members of the excessive courtroom weren’t very welcoming of this new means of thought and even talked about in a short that they thought it was going outdoors of their duty as a courtroom and doing “fact-finding,” which is the duty of attorneys. However Lee argued it was one other manner of decoding the legislation, which is their duty.
“Proper at first, my colleagues not solely did not be part of my opinion, they added some issues to their opinion to criticize what I used to be doing and to counsel that perhaps it was even judicially unethical to do what I used to be doing,” Lee recalled. “Now all 5 of us are on board with utilizing these instruments.”
Durrant stated that as they discovered extra about it, the judges are extra comfy utilizing corpus linguistics as a way to interpret the legislation. He stated it will possibly typically present extra in regards to the meant which means of a legislation than a dictionary.
Not simply the courts in Utah, however courts from across the nation are utilizing corpus linguistics in selections, together with Choose Kathryn Kimball Mizelle who used it when putting down a masks mandate within the Center District of Florida primarily based on the corpus linguistics of the phrase sanitation. Lee stated even U.S. Supreme Courtroom justices have requested about corpus linguistics as a potential strategy to resolve a case.
“It’s totally thrilling to me. It is one of many explanation why I am motivated to do that as an alternative of to hitch an enormous legislation agency,” Lee stated.
He stated he has confidence that it will develop even additional.
Lee stated his second new agency will focus on linguistics and assist seek the advice of attorneys all through the nation about linguistics. Members of the agency will even be accessible to testify in courtroom when requested about linguistics debates in instances. Lee’s companion, Jesse Egbert, at present works as a linguistics professor at Northern Arizona College, and the 2 have labored collectively on shows for linguistics conferences.
Household, legislation and soccer
Kim Lee stated that as their kids received older, they’d discuss a few of her husband’s instances and his position and it had a optimistic impact on the household, each due to what they discovered and thru the connections he made.
She stated her husband would maintain mock courts at their kids’s colleges, or invite lessons or Scouting teams to the courtroom to speak in regards to the judicial system.
He additionally has been a mentor for a lot of legislation clerks, and Kim Lee stated these two or three legislation clerks from every of the 12 years he was on the Utah Supreme Courtroom have grow to be a part of their household.
“These relationships keep, and I feel that is one of many neatest elements of the job,” she stated.
Lee stated the transfer away from the excessive courtroom is primarily monetary and can assist him pay for his kids to get by way of school. He stated he’s grateful for his wage and advantages from his time on the courtroom, however attorneys working for the federal government often take pay cuts.
Two of the Lees’ kids have determined to hunt legislation levels. And whereas Thomas Lee stated he has beloved his time working in legislation, he tries to current an correct image of the expertise to his kids to ensure they’re conscious of the pressures and stresses concerned within the profession.
Ben Lee graduated this 12 months from Harvard Regulation Faculty and begins a clerkship on the District of Columbia Circuit this fall. He stated his father has been an instance for him, and he respects how his dad cares about his jobs and the way he performs them.
“I feel he actually cares about what is correct, and what’s true. And that is what drives how he decides each opinion, how he writes each opinion. He isn’t swayed by, you recognize, ‘How is that this going to make me look?’ or issues like that. He cares about his oath that he took to the U.S. Structure and to the Utah Structure. And I feel that’s what everybody would hope for in a decide — somebody who’s dedicated to the integrity of the legislation,” Ben Lee stated.
Thomas Lee stated he’s far more comfy being in a judicial place than being a politician like his brother, Utah Sen. Mike Lee.
“There’s just one brother within the Lee household, Rex Lee’s sons, that was ever going to be a politician and it was not Tom — and I say that out of nice respect for Mike. He is so good with individuals. He is so comfy being within the public eye, talking publicly about … what he thinks. I am far more comfy in a convention room with 4 different individuals,” Thomas Lee stated.
Rex Lee served as U.S. solicitor common within the Eighties, was the founding dean of BYU’s legislation faculty, and served as BYU’s president from 1989-1995.
Though his brother is extra outspoken on political points than he’s, Thomas Lee stated the sisters within the household make each him and his brother “seem like shrinking violets,” and in-laws will typically stroll away throughout household conversations due to how loud it will get.
“It is lots of enjoyable, truly. We typically disagree, and we at all times have enjoyable collectively and at all times have type of raucous discussions about no matter,” Lee stated.
He stated since his brother is a senator, they extra typically have political conversations, however the conversations about BYU soccer or their hobbies can get fairly loud as properly.