Four-time WNBA champion Sheryl Swoopes has been one of Caitlin Clark’s most outspoken critics.

But Swoopes was left speechless during a recent podcast appearance after being asked about the Indiana Fever star’s remarks about her privilege as a White athlete in an interview with Time magazine after being named Athlete of the Year. 

Swoopes, who was the first player ever signed to the WNBA, admitted on the “Gil’s Arena” podcast Wednesday that Clark receiving the honor was “great” for the league, but she questioned the criteria for what went into Time’s selection. 

“I don’t think I’m surprised. I’m curious to know who the other candidates were. But the fact that that’s the very first WNBA player to ever win Time magazine Athlete of the Year is pretty special.

“My question is — like the criteria — is it based off her performance on the court, which, yeah, she had a great year. Or is it more about the impact that she had on the game this season.

“I think it’s great, not just for her. I think it’s great for the league, right? Like everybody talked about the recognition she brought to the W this season, and, so, for her to be Time magazine Athlete of the Year I think it’s really great for the league.” 

Texas Tech alumna Sheryl Swoopes attends Alumni Weekend at a Texas Tech game against Baylor Jan. 28, 2023, at United Supermarkets Arena. (Imagn)

CAITLIN CLARK ADMITS FEELING ‘PRIVILEGE’ AS A WHITE PERSON, SAYS WNBA WAS ‘BUILT ON’ BLACK PLAYERS

But Swoopes had less to say when she was asked what she thought of Clark’s admission to the magazine that she benefited from her privilege. 

“I want to say I’ve earned every single thing, but as a White person, there is privilege,” Clark said in the interview. 

“A lot of those players in the league that have been really good have been Black players. This league has kind of been built on them. The more we can appreciate that, highlight that, talk about that, and then continue to have brands and companies invest in those players that have made this league incredible, I think it’s very important. I have to continue to try to change that. The more we can elevate Black women, that’s going to be a beautiful thing.” 

Caitlin Clark (22) of the Indiana Fever drives to the basket against the Connecticut Sun during Game 2 of the first round of the 2024 WNBA Playoffs Sept. 25, 2024, at Mohegan Sun Arena in Uncasville, Conn. (Chris Marion/NBAE via Getty Images)

When asked during Wednesday’s podcast about those remarks, Swoopes said nothing. 

She appeared to raise an eyebrow and nod before the topic was changed. 

Swoopes has faced criticism in the past over her hot takes on Clark. In September, Swoopes said she didn’t think Clark was “dominating” the league. Clark was later named WNBA Rookie of the Year. 

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A look at the matchups involving Southland teams in CIF state championship bowl games this weekend:

FRIDAY

Division 2-AA: Oxnard Pacifica (11-4) vs. Sacramento Grant (11-3) at Saddleback College, 4 p.m. Pacifica blocked three punts last week against Narbonne. Offensively, it’s all about whether quarterback Dominic Duran can receive enough time to get the ball to receivers Alijah Royster, Savion Taylor and Isaiah Dillon. Grant relies on its offensive and defensive lines to create scoring opportunities. The pick: Grant.

Division 4-AA: Palmdale Highland (11-4) vs. Petaluma St. Vincent de Paul (13-1) at Veterans Stadium, 4 p.m. Highland quarterback Justin Wyatt, a Nevada commit, has been passing and running his way to success. Junior quarterback Gabe Casanovas has 36 touchdown passes for the Mustangs. The pick: St. Vincent de Paul.

SATURDAY

Open Division: Concord De La Salle (12-0) vs. Mater Dei (12-0) at Saddleback College, 8 p.m. Mater Dei is ranked No. 1 in California as well as the nation by several organizations. The Monarchs haven’t come close to losing all season thanks to a dominating defense and an offense that relies on running back Jordon Davison and quarterback Dash Beierly, who are committed to Oregon and Washington, respectively. De La Salle has speed on both sides of the ball but the representative from Northern California hasn’t scored in this game the last two years. CalPreps.com has Mater Dei winning by 41 points. The pick: Mater Dei.

Division 1-A: Huntington Beach Edison (11-4) vs. Fresno Central (12-2) at Saddleback College, 3 p.m. Edison has come on strong with a team approach featuring quarterback Sam Thomson, running back Julius Gillick and an aggressive defense. Brandon Smith is the player to watch for Central. He had five touchdowns last week in the regional final. The pick: Edison.

Division 2-A: Palos Verdes (10-5) vs. Lincoln Twelve Bridges (14-0) at Saddleback College, 11:30 a.m. The Sea Kings have reached their first final behind sophomore quarterback Ryan Rakowski and a defense that has produced two pick-six touchdowns the last two weeks. Twelve Bridges, in its fourth year of playing football, had a big game last week from running back Braeden Ward, who rushed for 206 yards. The pick: Twelve Bridges.

Division 3-A: Rio Hondo Prep (13-1) vs. Fairfield Vanden (12-2) at Veterans Stadium, 3 p.m. The Kares, with 16 Southern Section championships, have never won a state title. With a student body of 71 boys, the Kares will turn to junior running back Noah Penunuri, who’s closing in on 1,800 yards rushing. Vanden counters with prolific quarterback Kalani Mcleod, who has passed for 4,090 yards and 36 touchdowns. The pick: Rio Hondo Prep.

Division 4-A: St. Pius X-St. Matthias (6-9) vs. Sonora (12-2) at Veterans Stadium, 3 p.m. St. Pius made the Southern Section playoffs with a 1-9 record, didn’t lose any games in November and is trying to finish off as state champions. This is a team that had two interceptions against Brady Smigiel, the quarterback for Division 2 champion Newbury Park. Quarterback Jassi Williams is nearing 3,000 yards passing. Sonora has strong special teams and produces turnovers on defense. The pick: St. Pius X-St. Matthias.

Division 5-A: Palmdale (10-5) vs. American Canyon (12-2) at Veterans Stadium, 11 a.m. Junior quarterback Joshua Suarez passed for 293 yards and four touchdown in the regional final for Palmdale, which faces a tough task on defense going against a team with two running backs who have gained more than 1,500 yards each. The pick: American Canyon.

Division 6-AA: Portola (9-6) vs. Arcata (13-1) at Fullerton, 7 p.m. Portola won an overtime thriller last week against King/Drew and has come back from an 0-5 start to reach its first state final. The Bulldogs will try to control the clock with their rushing attack. Arcata relies on versatile quarterback Luke Lemke. The pick: Arcata.

Division 7-A: Pioneer (10-5) vs. San Francisco Balboa (8-5) at Fullerton, 11 a.m. Sophomore running back Joseph Smith leads Balboa. Adrian Lopez has rushed for more than 1,000 yards for Pioneer. The pick: Balboa.

“When I was watching that part of the first episode,” Christian Pulisic says, “I was like, wow, I’m really awkward, and everyone sees me as this boring guy who doesn’t want to show into his life. I hope people can see that there is some more to me.”

Pulisic, the 26-year-old star of the United States men’s national team and Italy’s AC Milan, is daring to open up. In a new docuseries titled Pulisic — produced by CBS Sports and streamed on Paramount+ — the player has granted what the network describes as “unprecedented access” to his life and “growing celebrity”. “As cameras capture Pulisic’s journey in meeting the demands of global stardom while he prepares for the biggest moment of his career — the 2026 FIFA Men’s World Cup on home soil,” it adds.

The first episode was released this week, with the second and third to follow in January and more promised later in 2025. It has a strong cast list, including Milan executive Zlatan Ibrahimovic, who insists on calling Pulisic “Captain America”, as well as his former Borussia Dortmund coach Jurgen Klopp, plus insight from team-mates and the closest members of his family.

They all seem surprised, almost perplexed, that Pulisic agreed to take part. Clint Dempsey, a former international team-mate, says: “He doesn’t talk that much, he’s not really outgoing. What kinda content are you gonna get for this thing?” Olivier Giroud, a previous team-mate at AC Milan, says Pulisic is “quiet”, adding there are “so many things he keeps inside himself he doesn’t want to show”. His current USMNT colleague Weston McKennie is “surprised”, saying Pulisic’s journey is “worth documenting, but he doesn’t really let people in so much”.

Ibrahimovic says the only thing he sees a “little bit negative” about Pulisic is that he is “a little bit quiet”. “He is known for being Captain America, but he doesn’t like to be Captain America. He doesn’t maybe see himself like a superhero. He is playing low profile and with his feet on the ground. But you are Captain America, I don’t give a s*** what you say, you are. If that is more pressure on you, I don’t care. It is his own fault — if you weren’t so good, we wouldn’t ask anything from you.”

Pulisic is speaking to The Athletic primarily to promote the series, which traces his life and career from an upbringing in Hershey, Pennsylvania, to becoming the most expensive American soccer player of all time when he joined Chelsea for $73million (then £57.6m) in 2019. Along the way, he captained his nation at the age of just 20 and became the first American man to play and win a Champions League final, when Chelsea defeated Manchester City in 2021. This season, he is AC Milan’s leading scorer and creator of goals, arguably in the form of his career, albeit now facing an injury setback until early January after tearing a calf muscle during Friday’s Serie A loss at Atalanta.

In this interview, like the documentary, Pulisic stops short of feeling like a completely open book. But he is candid about the psychological challenges of life as an elite footballer (“it’s a lot on your brain,” he says), his relationship with his parents, and the perception (also suggested by several other Americans in the documentary) of a bias against U.S. soccer players in Europe.

So why has Pulisic, this reluctant celebrity, decided to do a documentary? “One of my biggest goals is inspiring that next generation of soccer players and my country back home and getting people excited,” he says. “I look at the timing of a World Cup coming up in the U.S. and the sport is the biggest it’s ever been. It seems like the right time.

“Some of us are more introverted, some of us are more outgoing. I hope some people can see this documentary and think, ‘I relate to him’. Hopefully, they see how I am as a person and realise, ‘OK, maybe not all football stars are wanting to be so glamorous and in the spotlight all the time’. I hope they see that I’m kind of the opposite of that and see some of the struggles that I go through on a day-to-day basis as an American battling in Europe to try to be one of the best players in the world.”

It becomes clear that one of his motivations has been to improve perceptions of U.S. soccer players in Europe. In the documentary, Pulisic’s father, Mark, questions whether it will ever change in “our lifetime”, describing it as a “stigma”. Pulisic says in the series that it “p***** me off”, claiming he has “seen it in front of my eyes” and arguing that 50-50 decisions by coaches — about whether to select an American player or not — may have been impacted by it. McKennie says American players “always have that chip on our shoulder when we come to Europe”.

(John Dorton/ISI Photos/USSF/Getty Images for USSF)

Pulisic tells The Athletic: “It just inspires me to work that much harder and to have to be better — not even giving them a decision to make and saying, ‘This is the guy that we want playing’. So that’s always pushed me.

“I think it’s in a better place now. I hope I’ve had a say in that and other people look around and say, ‘This guy’s American and he is doing it at the highest level, so we need to respect some of these guys’. Look how many Americans in the last five to 10 years have come over to Europe. We have players in the Champions League and some of the highest leagues in the world. It is not our biggest driver of wanting to prove them wrong. It’s just something that is out there.”

Pulisic also found himself in the headlines in November when he performed the ‘Trump dance’ after scoring for the USMNT against Jamaica, joining in with other sports stars who had mimicked the president-elect’s moves.

He insisted immediately after the game that it was not a political gesture and was just “fun” because he thought the dance was “funny”. Several weeks on, does he feel the same?

“I honestly don’t feel any differently now than when I did it,” he says. “To me, it was a viral dance trend, (the type of which) I’ve done multiple times in my career. Whether it’s a dab or a funny other dance that people still make fun of me for because my dancing skills aren’t very good, I don’t feel any type of way about it. It wasn’t any kind of statement in any way. It was just a fun trend that I was doing. Anyone who looks more into it should really just not because it’s just not there.”

GO DEEPER

Explaining USMNT star Christian Pulisic’s ‘Donald Trump dance’ and its impact

Was he surprised by the response? “In the way that the political climate is, especially in the U.S., maybe not. I’ll be honest, beforehand, I didn’t really think about it either. But with the way people react to things, I guess it doesn’t surprise me that much, now I think about it.”

Did U.S. Soccer speak to him about the celebration? “Honestly, no. There was no reaction at all from that side. I think they know me as a person. That’s how we should judge people.”

This documentary takes us closer to Pulisic the person than ever before. What becomes immediately clear is the influence of his father, a former professional player himself. Pulisic, who was coached by his dad as a kid, smiles as he tells the documentary: “Sometimes he gets on my nerves, the guy is absolutely out of his mind. He knows how to get to me, how to motivate me, how to p*** me off.” His mother, Kelley, also played soccer in her younger days, but Pulisic says her approach is different, explaining how her texts before and after games will always be the same regardless of what happens on the field.

“That’s being harsh on my dad, though,” Pulisic tells The Athletic. “He did a good job of drawing the line. He never made me hate the game or want to stop and want to quit. He was not so over the top parenting that it was out of control. It was never like that.

“But definitely he prodded me. He pushed me. He knew how to get the best out of me — always. He was my coach growing up. He would treat me as he would any of his other players, probably even a little bit harder. At this level now, he’s not constantly trying to do it. But he knows my game better than anybody else. So he was constantly trying to push me to play with bravery, with no fear.”

Pulisic with his father, mother and the Champions League trophy after winning it with Chelsea in 2021 (Darren Walsh/Chelsea FC via Getty Images)

Pulisic, at his creative best, is a fearless and spontaneous talent. He says confidence “can depend a lot on your environment, form, trust from your coaches, from your club, how you’re feeling”. He says this has been restored at Milan, the club he joined for €20million (now $21.13m, £16.55m) in the summer of 2023 from Chelsea, where his opportunities were diminished following the takeover by Todd Boehly and Clearlake Capital in 2022.

“It’s not to say it’s easier now (at Milan) than it was with Chelsea, but there was a time in Chelsea where I felt on top of the world and I was playing great and that confidence and that no-fear mentality was easy to have. And there was also a time when that was extremely difficult because I wasn’t getting the time. I felt pressure that I needed to do more when I did get on the pitch in some kind of way. Now, I’m in a really good head space where I feel quite confident. I feel a lot of trust from the club in a lot of ways.”

For Pulisic, is it fair to say Chelsea was the first real setback? “For sure, it was difficult. I became very used to my environment in Chelsea. I learned so much, won a lot and was really happy with how things went in certain ways. But when it’s time for a change, you can feel it with all of your being. If I wanted to reach that next level, this is a step that I had to take.”

So how does he handle those moments when football becomes more challenging? “Getting older,” he smiles. “And understanding that the best in the world are so clear in the head that, for example, if they miss a chance, it doesn’t feel like the end of the world. Their whole body language does not define them. They know they’re going to get another because they’re that good and they’re getting into positions. It is about a clear head and understanding that you’re going to have better moments ahead.”

And perhaps understanding that nobody can expect things to go perfectly all of the time? “But the mind does crazy things to you,” he counters. “You have a little bit of success and you’re like, ‘Man, this has got to be what it’s always like’. Then when something doesn’t quite go the way you want, it’s funny how your mind takes you right back there. It’s not easy. We all work on it every day.

“The best in the world who seem like they’re scoring every week also have mental droughts and battles they’re dealing with. It just may not seem that way. There’s a lot of parts to it. This career, this profession, I’m extremely blessed to be able to do it, but it’s a lot on your brain. It’s a lot on your body, there are games all the time. It’s hard work.”

Pulisic is reluctant to say this is his best season individually, perhaps because his club have struggled collectively and are seventh in Serie A, nine points short of the Champions League places.

“In each area, I’m getting a little bit better,” he says, “whether that be finishing, crossing, defending, tactically growing and understanding the game better. I feel like I’m improving and becoming a lot stronger mentally, knowing that when tougher times do hit, I’m able to not let it affect me as much, making the less confident moments become a little bit shorter. So it’s just also about consistency and taking care of yourself.”

Pulisic after scoring for Milan in Serie A in September (Emmanuele Ciancaglini/Ciancaphoto Studio/Getty Images)

Pulisic’s value to Milan has been on and off the field, with “Pulisic 11” jerseys constituting 15 per cent of all shirts sold globally since he joined and club social media accounts recording 52 million impressions upon announcing his signing. The average number of U.S. users of the club’s app has doubled since his arrival, according to Milan.

In the summer, the USMNT also had a chance to enhance their reputation at Copa America on home soil but slumped out in the group stage, which led to head coach Gregg Berhalter losing his job and Mauricio Pochettino arriving. The tournament faced significant criticism, particularly over the quality of the playing fields and the authorities’ management of crowds. In the documentary, Pulisic is heard telling Ibrahimovic that there was good and bad to the competition, but that it was a “disaster at times”.

“That was obviously fresh off the emotions of that whole thing,” he tells The Athletic. “It was tough to lose and to go out in the way that we did — just a really unfortunate second game (a 2-1 defeat against Panama) that we like to think we should have won. That put us in a really tough spot. The conditions as well can be tough in those games against these types of teams with the fields and all those things. It was just a quick statement. It’s not like the whole thing was a disaster. I enjoyed the experience a lot as well.

“You could see the hype around the tournament. It was extremely exciting. You could see in that final (between Argentina and Colombia at Hard Rock Stadium in Miami, which was delayed by 82 minutes owing to extreme overcrowding) there were people coming in through the vents and it was all kinds of madness.

“Of course, we wish we (the USMNT) could do better. We want to be there to have the American people behind us. Trust me, no one wants it as bad as I do. And it sucked that we couldn’t deliver. That’s why it was just so disappointing for us. The more success you have, the more your country is going to get behind you.”

He says Pochettino has quickly made his vision clear. “He has a very demanding style. He wants us to play an attacking style, where we have the ball, create chances, be very dynamic and also work extremely hard. As soon as we lose it, to win it back and definitely a more higher up pressing style. So, yeah, it’s crazy to say it feels like he’s been the coach for a while and I haven’t got to spend a whole lot of time with him. But it has been a good start so far.”

Pulisic has not had much time with his new national team coach yet owing to the infrequency of international breaks (John Dorton/ISI Photos/USSF/Getty Images)

Both Pochettino and Pulisic will be pivotal in 2026 and that, perhaps, is where the player’s ultimate legacy will be forged. If he is making another documentary in a decade’s time, what would he like it to show?

“I would love to be able to say that I have been a small or big part in taking soccer in America to a whole other level and hopefully bringing us to a point where we are one of the most respected countries in the world,” says Pulisic. “That would be an incredible goal for me. If we’re in that conversation and competing as a national team at the highest level and in some of the biggest competitions in the world, that would make me extremely proud and just hopefully we can be in a position where the sport has become what some of the other big ones are in America.”

GO DEEPER

Christian Pulisic interview: ‘I want to show the world what the U.S. can do’

(Top photo: Getty; Gabriel Bouys/AFP, Dennis Agyeman/Europa Press; design: Dan Goldfarb)