Podcasts, ‘The View’ and Howard Stern: How Harris and Trump are 'microtargeting' voters

The viewers of “The View” talk show and the listeners of Howard Stern’s satellite radio program couldn’t be more different: older women who watch daytime television for the former versus young and middle-aged white men who have long constituted the fervent followers of the once-raunchy stylings of the latter.

Yet within the span of a couple of hours Tuesday, Democratic presidential nominee Kamala Harris traveled between their studios in Manhattan to sit down for lengthy interviews, an odd juxtaposition of a television show initially viewed as a ladies-who-lunch klatch and a radio host who became famous because of pornographic, misogynistic and at times racist diatribes that led to millions of dollars in indecency fines from the federal government.

Historically, serious political candidates would never have appeared on either; President Obama was mocked by fellow Democrats for being the first sitting president to sit for an interview on “The View.”

But both programs, which have millions of followers, have evolved: “The View” is one of the most popular stops for presidential candidates of both parties, and Stern has transformed into a therapy-touting, inquisitive interviewer. And both represent a bipartisan strategy as candidates of both parties including former President Trump court voters through the exponentially growing network of broadcast, radio, podcast and social media venues where voters who aren’t MSNBC or Fox News junkies get their news.

Bill Burton, a national spokesperson for Obama’s 2008 presidential campaign who worked on his communications team during his first term in the White House, said “the landscape has completely changed” since he started working in politics a quarter-century ago.

“Once the most obvious ways to communicate with voters was through political reporters,” he said. “That has shifted to getting a better understanding of who voters are, where they’re getting their information and communicating with them where they’re getting their information.”

The heightened focus on nontraditional media is the latest iteration of microtargeting, efforts by campaigns to reach specific blocs of voters. One of the most effective efforts occurred during President George W. Bush’s 2004 reelection campaign when strategists used consumer data, such as which magazines voters received or the cars they bought, to surgically target Republican voters in Democratic precincts in states such as Ohio.

“Campaigns are no longer a top-down approach to messaging. Oftentimes, it’s a very customized bottom-up approach,” said Kevin Madden, a GOP strategist who worked on Bush’s 2004 reelection bid as well as Mitt Romney’s 2008 and 2012 campaigns. “Before 2004, campaigns had 30-second ads targeted at the general population of people watching the news at 6:30 and across cable news. Now … you have this almost omnipresent approach communicating through all these channels based on what you know about their issues and what you know about peer sets.”

Recalling those efforts two decades ago, Madden said: “If you drive a truck and drink Budweiser, you’re one of our voters. If you drive a Grand Cherokee and drink Heineken, you may be a swing voters. Based on consumer habits, we know where to target you with some of our messaging, whether it’s peer-to-peer communication or through Field & Stream magazine.”

“Now, it’s morphed into a more comprehensive understanding of electorate,” said Madden, now a senior partner at a Washington-based global strategic communications group. “A couple cycles ago, it was sort of like painting by numbers. Now, it’s like pixilated digital images, and we just get more and more understanding of the electorate and mood shifts and what motivates them.”

Trump has also appeared on nontraditional forums, such as the podcasts of the Nelk Boys and professional wrestler Logan Paul, both popular with young men. On Tuesday, the former president said on Ben Shapiro’s controversial podcast that President Biden and Harris ought to be removed from office through the 25th Amendment, which addresses the transfer of presidential power in cases of disability, resignation or removal from office or death.

Harris has also spoken to eyebrow-raising hosts, such as Alex Cooper of “Call Her Daddy,” an explicit podcast that boasts millions of listeners and is reminiscent of the early days of Stern’s radio show because of its frank sexual banter.

On Tuesday, Harris’ questioners on “The View” were friendly. The two Republicans sitting around the coffee table on set were notable Trump critics: Florida strategist Ana Navarro and former Trump White House aide Alyssa Farah Griffin. Harris used the appearance to roll out a proposal to offer long-term-care assistance for seniors through Medicare as she addressed the needs of the “sandwich” generation, people who are taking care of aging parents and children.

“There are so many people in our country who are right in the middle, taking care of their kids, and they’re taking care of their aging parents. And it’s just, almost, impossible to do it all, especially if they work,” Harris said, recalling her experience caring for her mother after she was diagnosed with cancer. “We’re finding that so many are then having to leave their job, which means losing a source of income, not to mention the emotional stress. And so what I am proposing is that basically what we will do is allow Medicare to cover in-home healthcare.”

But Republicans quickly focused on an answer about what she would have done differently than Biden during their time leading the nation — a tricky line Harris had to walk as she is loyal to the current president while also arguing she is a change candidate.

“There is not a thing that comes to mind … and I’ve been part of most of the decisions that have had impact,” Harris said, later adding that she would include a Republican in her Cabinet.

Trump; his running mate, Ohio Sen. JD Vance; and other Republicans seized upon the remark.

“President Trump breaks the internet on X Spaces with Elon Musk, attends UFC fights and football games to roaring crowds, and opens up on personal topics like his family’s struggle with addiction on podcasts like Theo Von,” Anna Kelly, a spokesperson for the Republican National Committee, said in a statement. “In contrast, Kamala Harris doubles down on the past four years of failure, from the disastrous Afghanistan withdrawal to crushing inflation and record high prices for rent, groceries, and gas.

“The contrast is clear: while President Trump continues to build the largest, most diverse coalition in history, Kamala Harris wants four more years of the same weak, failed Biden-Harris agenda — and Americans will reject the tired politics of the past when they vote for President Trump in November,” Kelly said.

Shortly after her appearance on “The View,” Harris did an interview that lasted more than an hour with Stern, who initially was famous for having lascivious discussions on the airwaves, releasing “Butt Bongo Fiesta,” a $10-million-grossing home video featuring him spanking young women’s bare bottoms in time with music, and many other instances of offensive content, including using the N-word.

He dabbled in politics, flirting with running for governor of New York before being required to release his income. He had a New Jersey highway rest stop named after him after endorsing successful GOP gubernatorial candidate Christine Todd Whitman.

As Stern has aged, he has evolved. Although he had a long-term relationship with Trump — they attended each other’s weddings — Stern said it disintegrated after he refused to introduce Trump at the 2016 Republican National Convention because he was backing Hillary Clinton.

His interview of Harris was fawning. Stern urged his supporters to vote for her or, if they supported Trump, to not vote all together. They both repeated familiar talking points about the perils they believe the former president poses to democracy and the world.

Although Harris hit many of the same notes as prior interviews, such as speaking about eating an entire bag of nacho cheese Doritos — “family size” — the night Trump won the 2016 presidential election, she also spoke about her love of Formula One racing and surprising her husband with tickets to see U2 at the Sphere in Las Vegas.

“Oh my God, have you been to the Sphere?” she asked Stern. “Everyone should go in with a clear head.”

Stern responded, “Basically, don’t be high?”

“Correct,” the vice president said. “It’s a lot. There’s a lot of visual stimulation.”