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Trump Claims Harris’s Rallies Are Smaller. We Counted.

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Trump Claims Harris’s Rallies Are Smaller. We Counted.

Kalina Borkiewicz, Malika Khurana, Karthik Patanjali and Bedel Saget

The sizable support Vice President Kamala Harris has generated at her rallies has rattled former President Donald J. Trump, who has emphasized, and frequently exaggerated, his crowd sizes for years. He has said, often repeating falsehoods, that his crowds are much larger than Ms. Harris’s, and the Harris campaign has returned with their own jabs about the enthusiasm of Trump rallygoers.

We attended six rallies — every campaign event that the candidates held within a three-week period in August — across six states, taking photographs and capturing video and 360-degree footage, to analyze which claims on crowd sizes hold weight. The analysis found that, despite Mr. Trump’s claims, both candidates draw comparably big audiences.

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On a Friday night, Mr. Trump drew 11,500 people to the Desert Diamond Arena in Glendale, Ariz. Here’s what it looked like:

Photographs and composite by Kalina Borkiewicz and Karthik Patanjali

On a Tuesday night during the weeklong Democratic National Convention in late August, Ms. Harris drew 12,800 to a campaign event at the Fiserv Forum in Milwaukee, Wis. Here’s a scene from that rally:

Photographs and composite by Malika Khurana and Bedel Saget

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The four other campaign events that The Times attended were similarly packed, with audience members generally filling up the space designated for the event. The rallies took place at venues with maximum capacities ranging from 6,800 to 19,300 people, though in some cases sections of seating were cordoned off, and additional seating or standing-only areas were added.

Wilkes-Barre, Pa., Aug. 17

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Justin Sullivan/Getty Images (Las Vegas), Christian Monterrosa/Agence France-Presse — Getty Images (Savannah), Michael Ciaglo/Getty Images (Bozeman), Doug Mills/The New York Times (Wilkes-Barre)

For each of the six events, The Times counted the number of people visible in footage taken just after each candidate began their speech, also accounting for people in dimly lit and obscured areas. This number does not represent the people that may have left early, before the footage was captured, or arrived late.

Crowd size estimates at campaign events

Harris

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Sat., Aug. 10 Las Vegas 6,200
Tue., Aug. 20 Milwaukee, Wis. 12,800
Thu., Aug. 29 Savannah, Ga. 6,200

Trump

Fri., Aug. 9 Bozeman, Mont. 4,300
Sat., Aug. 17 Wilkes-Barre, Pa. 5,900
Fri., Aug. 23 Glendale, Ariz. 11,500

Experts say that crowd sizes at rallies do not have a direct relationship to winning or losing an election. For one, event organizers may strategically choose venues with a small capacity, like college campus buildings where only a few hundred can attend. The day of the week and time of day can also affect the size of the crowd and when people decide to arrive or leave.

Still, crowd sizes have been a sensitive subject for Mr. Trump throughout his political career, his fixation intensifying as of late as enthusiasm has ballooned for the new Democratic ticket. Mr. Trump falsely claimed that photographs of the crowds at Ms. Harris’s events are doctored using A.I.

In response, the Harris campaign posted a video compilation of moments during Mr. Trump’s rallies in which audience members are seen yawning, and also wrote in a separate post on Truth Social that members of Mr. Trump’s audience left the event in Pennsylvania early, “leaving even more empty seats.”

The Times found that people did leave early from two of three of Mr. Trump’s events, including while he was delivering his speech.

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Photographs taken over the course of Mr. Trump’s rallies show where people left their seats. Below is a series of photographs from his Aug. 17 rally in Wilkes-Barre, Pa., taken at 13 minutes and just over 1 hour into his speech.

Examples of crowd thinning during Trump’s speech in Wilkes-Barre, Pa.

Malika Khurana and Karthik Patanjali

And this shows where seats emptied out an hour into Mr. Trump’s speech at the Aug. 23 rally in Glendale, Ariz.

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Examples of crowd thinning during Trump’s speech in Glendale, Ariz.

Kalina Borkiewicz and Karthik Patanjali

The longer duration of a Trump event compared with a Harris one may have contributed to a greater number of early exits. Trump rallygoers typically arrived earlier in the day, and opening speeches tended to start earlier and last longer. Of the six rallies The Times attended, Mr. Trump spoke for four times as long as Ms. Harris.

How long the rallies lasted

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Note: The start time for each rally is determined by when the doors were scheduled to open.

The New York Times

Despite the limited connection between crowd size and election outcomes, the very public sparring between the two campaigns over the metric indicates that it at the very least carries some political significance.

Large, enthusiastic crowds can also help energize the candidate themselves as they give their speech, said Todd Belt, the director of the Political Management program at George Washington University. It can also contribute to a “bandwagon effect,” showing those who aren’t there in person that the enthusiasm for a candidate is real.

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“Even though I do believe these kinds of events don’t change people’s minds, what it does is it makes people feel like you’re not alone,” said Betsy Reiser, 62, an attendee at a rally for Harris in Savannah, Ga. “It is very important to feel like you belong.”

The Times took 360-degree photographs at two-minute intervals and panoramic photographs at 15-minute intervals at the rallies, from the time doors opened through the end of the events. To establish the estimated crowd size, The Times manually counted individuals in a single photographic panorama shortly before or during the candidate’s speech, when crowd density was expected to be highest. The count was then rounded to the nearest hundred.

Note: Green dots represent the people Times reporters manually counted in the arena.

Graphic by Kalina Borkiewicz, photograph and composite by Malika Khurana and Bedel Saget

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Areas that were obstructed from the view of our cameras were photographed and analyzed separately, then combined with the main count where needed. Photographs were compiled into a single composite image that shows a 360-degree view of the arena. Photograph timestamps, cross-referenced with official campaign information and recorded broadcasts, were used to determine speaking time.

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Biden Awards Medal of Freedom to Pope Francis

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Biden Awards Medal of Freedom to Pope Francis

President Biden awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom with Distinction to Pope Francis on Saturday, granting one of the nation’s highest honors to a figure he called “the People’s Pope.”

“Pope Francis, your humility and your grace are beyond words, and your love for all is unparalleled,” Mr. Biden wrote on X. “You are a light of faith, hope, and love that shines brightly across the world.”

Mr. Biden honored the pontiff during a weekend in which he was scheduled to meet with the pope in person at the Holy See. The president, however, canceled the three-day trip to Italy to coordinate the federal response to raging wildfires in Los Angeles, according to a White House statement.

Rather than the usual award ceremony, in which the president places the award around the neck of the recipient, Mr. Biden posted on X an image from the Oval Office in which a military aide presented the medal. The White House announced the honor after Mr. Biden spoke to Pope Francis on Saturday and informed him of the award.

It was the first time during Mr. Biden’s term that he had awarded the medal “with distinction,” a more prestigious version of the honor. Mr. Biden received the recognition from President Barack Obama in 2017. Other recipients include Pope John Paul II and Colin L. Powell.

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Mr. Biden, a Catholic, has seen Pope Francis as an admired ally on the global stage and turned to him as a sounding board, and the pope has lobbied for Mr. Biden to use his presidential power during his final weeks in office.

Last month, Pope Francis called Mr. Biden and asked him to commute the sentences of those on federal death row. Days later, Mr. Biden used his clemency power to soften their sentences to life in prison without the possibility of parole, sparing their lives.

A citation included in the White House announcement for the award said that Pope Francis was “unlike any who came before.”

“His mission of serving the poor has never ceased,” the statement read. “A loving pastor, he joyfully answers children’s questions about God. A challenging teacher, he commands us to fight for peace and protect the planet. A welcoming leader, he reaches out to different faiths.”

Mr. Biden awarded the honor days after bestowing the Presidential Medal of Freedom to 18 leaders of the political, financial and celebrity establishment.

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Pence reveals words exchanged with President-elect Trump at Carter funeral

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Pence reveals words exchanged with President-elect Trump at Carter funeral

Former Vice President Mike Pence revealed his brief exchange with President-elect Trump, which was caught on camera at former President Carter’s state funeral.

The pair have not been seen publicly together since leaving the White House in disagreement over the 2020 election results. At the service at the National Cathedral, Pence stood up to shake Trump’s hand, and they appeared to exchange pleasantries. 

Former second lady Karen Pence, who was seated next to her husband, did not stand up or acknowledge Trump.

JIMMY CARTER MEMORIAL: SUSPECT ACCUSED IN CAPITOL HILL SECURITY BREACH DURING TRUMP VISIT IDENTIFIED

In an interview with Christianity Today, Pence said he “welcomed” the opportunity to speak with Trump.

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“He greeted me when he came down the aisle. I stood up, extended my hand. He shook my hand. I said, ‘Congratulations, Mr. President,’ and he said, ‘Thanks, Mike,’” Pence said.

Former Vice President Al Gore, left, watches as former Vice President Mike Pence, center, shakes hands with President-elect Trump before a state funeral service for former President Carter at the Washington National Cathedral in Washington, D.C., Jan. 9, 2025.  (Mandel Ngan/Pool/AFP via Getty Images)

Pence also recalled one of his final conversations with Trump in 2021, when he told Trump he would continue to pray for him. Trump responded, “Don’t bother,” the outlet reported. 

“I said, ‘You know, there’s probably two things that we’re never going to agree on. … We’re probably never going to agree on what my duty was under the Constitution on Jan. 6.’ And then I said, ‘And I’m never going to stop praying for you,’” Pence told Christianity Today. “And he said, ‘That’s right, Mike, don’t ever change.’”

He said he kept his word.

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RFK JR. SAYS HE PLANS TO ALSO MEET WITH DEMS IN BID TO GET CONFIRMED AS TRUMP HHS HEAD

Robert F. Kennedy Jr. speaks

Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., speaks before former President Trump, the Republican presidential nominee, at a campaign event, Nov. 1, 2024, in Milwaukee. (AP Photo/Morry Gash)

While the two appeared to remain cordial at the service for Carter, Pence told the outlet he doesn’t think Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. is the right fit to manage Health and Human Services and was concerned about former U.S. Rep. Tulsi Gabbard serving as national intelligence director.

Fox News Digital reached out to Trump and Advancing American Freedom, a public policy advocacy organization founded by Pence, for comment, but did not immediately receive a response.

Fox News Digital’s Andrew Mark Miller contributed to this article.

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Newsom to Trump: 'Respect the pleas of 40 million Americans'

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Newsom to Trump: 'Respect the pleas of 40 million Americans'

President-elect Donald Trump has not responded to Gov. Gavin Newsom’s invitation to tour California’s fire damage, Newsom said Saturday afternoon.

Newsom sent a letter on Friday inviting the incoming president to California to meet with fire victims, survey the devastation in Los Angeles County and join him in thanking first responders. The invitation, which the governor’s office said was emailed to Trump’s team, marked a slight change in tone in the political battle between Newsom and Trump, with Newsom imploring Trump not to politicize the tragedy.

Newsom delivered an acid-laced reply when asked Saturday whether he expected Trump to respond to the invitation.

“He’s an incoming American president,” Newsom told a reporter Saturday as he stood on a Los Angeles airport tarmac in front of a hulking CalGuard Black Hawk helicopter. “I would expect any leader of the free world, the most powerful person in the United States of America, to respect the pleas of 40 million Americans that happen to live in the state of California, hundreds of thousands of people that are still evacuated and a recovery effort that includes, right now, cadaver dogs to look for human remains, to be here for the American people at a time of emergency and a time of recovery.”

Trump’s office did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

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Los Angeles County Board of Supervisors Chair Kathryn Barger echoed Newsom’s call with her own invitation to Trump on Saturday, imploring the incoming president to stand with county residents as they rebuild.

A catastrophic cluster of fires has wrought unprecedented destruction on the greater Los Angeles area in recent days, leveling thousands of structures and killing at least 13 people. The rebuilding effort will cost billions and test relationships at all levels of government.

President Biden, who has a close relationship with Newsom, has pledged that the federal government will cover 100% of disaster assistance costs to California for the next 180 days. But Biden leaves office on Jan. 20, and the recovery effort will likely sprawl for years to come.

Gov. Gavin Newsom speaks with reporters at LAX on Saturday.

(Carlin Stiehl / For The Times)

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Newsom whose term in office ends in 2026, is widely seen as eyeing the White House. As governor, Newsom took advantage of the state’s position as the liberal antithesis to Trump to elevate his own national profile during the president-elect’s first term.

The war of words between the two men on social media and in news headlines gave Newsom an opportunity to define himself as a fighter for Democratic values that he argued the Trump regime sought to erode. Newsom and California similarly gave Trump a chance to call out the follies of Democratic rule, endearing the president to his own base.

Less than 36 hours after Trump won the 2024 presidential election, Newsom called a special session of the Legislature to give the California Department of Justice an extra $25 million to wage legal battles against the incoming administration.

The special session immediately reignited the California versus Trump narrative from four years ago, though Newsom has attempted to downplay any political motivation and said his experience proved the need to prepare to protect environmental policies, abortion access and other state priorities.

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When asked Saturday whether he regretted calling the special session and publicly reigniting tensions with the incoming president, Newsom emphatically pushed back.

“Our preparing for the inevitable — which is an assault on our values, our diverse communities — we would be absolutely remiss not to prepare for that,” Newsom said, citing the myriad lawsuits the state litigated with Trump during his tenure and prior threats to withhold disaster assistance from the people of California.

But he also suggested that he worked as closely with Trump during the COVID-19 pandemic as any Democratic governor in America, taking the slightly more measured approach that he has put forth. During the president-elect’s first term, Newsom and Trump also maintained a friendly behind-the-scenes relationship, which appears to have since dissipated.

Newsom has forcefully pushed back on right-wing attacks on social media in the wake of the fires on social media in recent days and launched a website Saturday to actively debunk misinformation about the fire. The site refutes claims from Fox News that California cut its firefighting budget and shoots down allegations in social media posts about the state mismanaging forest lands.

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