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Control issues? These two simple words could help

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Control issues? These two simple words could help

“The single best thing” Mel Robbins has ever done began with a stressful moment on her son’s prom night.

The bestselling author, former attorney and host of one of the world’s most popular podcasts is talking about her latest book, “The Let Them Theory: A Life-Changing Tool That Millions of People Can’t Stop Talking About ” (Hay House).

The book — which demystifies ancient concepts from Stoicism, Buddhism and Greek philosophy for modern, plugged-in, multitasking audiences — arose that evening, when Robbins says she was “being a complete control freak” and “micromanaging every detail.”

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She was agonizing over the teens’ lack of dinner plans and the fact that it was raining and they might show up to the dance soaked. She was on her phone and shouting to other parents and trying to take control of the situation when her daughter repeatedly insisted that she let the kids do it their way.

Let them grab tacos instead of going to a restaurant. Let them ruin their shoes in the rain. “It’s their prom, not yours,” she said to Robbins.

After “like the 11th time,” it finally sunk in, Robbins said, and she felt herself relax.

After sharing the experience with her 8.3 million Instagram followers, and then to her legions of loyal podcast subscribers, the enthusiastic response made it clear: She needed to write a book. In December 2024, so came “The Let Them Theory.” In an interview with Robbins, Oprah Winfrey called it “one of the best self-help books I’ve ever read.”

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The Times spoke with Robbins about how the simple phrases “let them” and “let me” can help us feel less stressed and more empowered, and help us better navigate the challenges of dating, family relationships and social media.

This interview has been condensed and edited for clarity.

Portrait of Mel Robbins

(Mel Robbins author of “The Let Them Theory” (Jenny Sherman))

How did you realize that “let them” could work beyond the prom?

I’m the kind of person that’s always wanted to know how to be more stoic and let go, yet I’ve never really been able to apply philosophy when I’m already emotionally triggered. The way it hit me was at the prom.

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From that point forward, any time either life was frustrating me or my husband did something that was annoying, or my mother — I just started saying, “Let them,” and I noticed that it was immediate peace in a way that I had never experienced in my life.

All that I’m doing is reminding people of what they know to be true. The issue of trying to control things that aren’t yours to control, and how it just creates stress for you, this is the fundamental law of human beings that has been around since the beginning of time.

There are two parts to the theory: let them and let me. Why is it important to use both?

The second part is the more important part, because the second part is where you actually cue yourself and remind yourself that your life is your responsibility. When you say, “Let me,” you remind yourself that in any situation — and this is literally the teaching in “Man’s Search for Meaning,” [Holocaust survivor] Viktor Frankl’s work — the only thing that’s in your control is your response to what’s happening. You can control what you think about what’s happening. You get to choose what you do or don’t do in response. And you get to choose how you process your emotions. That’s what you get to control and that’s where your power is.

Cover of "The Let Them Theory" by Mel Robbins

You say the hardest part of “let them” is learning to feel raw emotions without immediately reacting. A lot of times, we’re already reacting before even thinking “let them.” How do we do this?

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I’m still working on it. I think you deserve a gold medal if you have the presence of mind to even say, “I would like to be less reactive moving forward.” Just being aware that it’s a skill and it would benefit you and bring more peace to your life, that is the first step. Part of the reason we’re so reactive is because we feel this sense that we’re trapped because we’ve given so much power to other people. Every time you say, “Let them,” even if it’s after the outburst, you’re still diffusing the emotion. What I have found in my own life, because [I’m] a very emotional person, is that the more I said it, the more you close the distance between the impulse to flip somebody off and actually saying, “Let them.” And you’ll get to a point where every time you say it, you’re literally using it as a tool to catch that nervous system or emotional response.

How can we use “The Let Them Theory” to prevent that compare-and-despair feeling we often get from social media?

It took me a long time to flip from this really insecure, scarcity mind-set, where I truly believed that if somebody else got something that I wanted, it meant they were winning and I lost. I didn’t understand the beauty of the world we live in, which is the things that you want in life — whether it’s success or it’s money or it’s happiness or it’s friendship — these things are in limitless supply.

It took me too long to understand that I’m not actually competing against somebody else in the game of life. I’m playing with them. If my friend is able to do [something], then it is evidence that I — with work and with time and with patience — can do that for myself too.

You start to realize that other people are not standing in your way; you’re doing that to yourself. You’re the one using comparison to stop yourself. You’re the one telling yourself it’s never going to happen. You’re the one telling yourself that you’re not good enough or that you can’t figure it out. When you stand in your own way, you miss out on the fact that literally every single person that has something that you’re interested in or that you want in life, they can actually show you how to get it. They show you what’s possible.

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Let’s talk about “let them” as it relates to dating. You say let them show us who they are, how responsive they are. But given today’s digital landscape, how do we use “let them” and still be present enough to allow for flirtation and mystery in relationships?

It’s understanding what part of the dating cycle you’re personally in instead of constantly trying to guess what part of the cycle the other person is in. If you’re in that phase where you’re just meeting a ton of people, really staying focused on, “I’m cool with playing the field right now.” But there’s going to come a point in time where you’re no longer interested in that, or where you say to yourself, “I actually like this person and I don’t want them to see other people.”

When you recognize that you’re no longer in that space of wanting to be casual, the mistake that everybody makes is we now give power to the other person we’re interested in. We now become detectives trying to figure out when they feel the same way we do. That’s when you start chasing the potential. That’s when you start overanalyzing everything you do. That’s when you start to cling, and you start to get weird, and you start to pretend that things are still casual, but you’re secretly looking to see if their Hinge profile is still up.

That’s where you lose power. Because the better thing to do when you no longer just want to be in the casual space is to have a conversation. They could say no, but this is how you respect yourself.

It seems like saying “let them” and “let me” requires self-confidence and self-compassion. How do we get there?

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You don’t get there by hoping it comes. You have to use the tools. One of the reasons why we don’t have these conversations — or even something more subtle, like you have a roommate or sister or a parent who’s just negative or passive-aggressive and you’ve put up with it for years — is it takes courage to say to yourself, “I don’t want to have to deal with this, so I’m going say, ‘Let them,’ because I’m going to stop trying to manage their mood.”

It takes a lot of compassion and grace for yourself. And then you do the “let me” part, which is: Let me remind myself that I get to choose how much time and energy I spend with this person.

You say this is especially hard with loved ones. Why is that?

These people have known you since you were born, and they have expectations about who you are and who you should be and what should happen in this family.

Think about family like a spiderweb. Any tap on the web reverberates through everybody. Anytime you start to let your family have their opinions, or let them have their fears, or let them have their expectations and let them have their concerns — which they have, because they’ve always had them about you — when you start saying “let them” and create space, you’re widening out the space between the webs. People don’t like that.

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Then you say: Let me live my life in a way that makes me happy; let me pursue a career I really want to pursue; let me love the person that I love. Those decisions actually force other people to have to deal with their own expectations and opinions. But that doesn’t mean you have to change what you’re doing in order to appease them or meet their opinions.

How do we apply the theory without becoming passive or aloof or waiting for a big blowup?

One of the things I see from people is like, “I’m supposed to let people abuse me? I’m supposed to let them disrespect me?” I’m like, no, that’s probably happening right now. Because we, especially in families and with loved ones, explain away bad, disrespectful and abusive behavior.

A figure dance with an umbrella in the rain

(Maggie Chiang / For The Times)

If we are in a family system or a relationship where there has been a cycle of emotional abuse or a cycle of narcissism, the psychology of it is very, very challenging, because you keep holding on to the hope that someone’s going to change. We keep a fantasy alive in our heads versus learning how to live with the reality in front of us. You start to realize, every time you say, “Let them” and “Let me,” that the power isn’t in what other people are doing. The power is in your values and how you respond.

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TAKEAWAYS

from “The Let Them Theory”

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‘Starfleet Academy’ interrogates the values at the center of ‘Star Trek’ itself

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‘Starfleet Academy’ interrogates the values at the center of ‘Star Trek’ itself

Sandro Rosta as Caleb Mir and Zoë Steiner as Tarima Sadal in Star Trek: Starfleet Academy.

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John Medland/Paramount+

It’s one of the most perilous challenges any crew can take on in the modern Star Trek universe: Building a new series around a bunch of characters who do not include Captain Kirk or Mr. Spock.

The collection of Trek series on Paramount+ have done yeoman’s work in that regard — starting with Sonequa Martin-Green’s principled Starfleet officer Michael Burnham on Star Trek: Discovery way back in 2017, birthing a bold new universe of characters that also made room for superstar supporting actors like Michelle Yeoh and Jason Isaacs.

Divided as fans could be about that series — originally set years before the days of Kirk and Spock, only to jump from the 23rd century to the 32nd century in a wild recalibration of the story — Discovery set the tone for big swings when it came to rebuilding the world of Trek for a modern streaming audience on Paramount+.

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Now fans have another big swing coming their way in Star Trek: Starfleet Academy, a series set in the 32nd century that Discovery landed in — a time when the venerated Federation of Planets is pulling itself back together after a massive disaster called “The Burn” shattered the alliance. This new Federation is rebuilding the school for starship officers and staff that produced legends like Kirk and Spock hundreds of years earlier.

Many of the best Trek series revolve around intrepid explorers in a starship stumbling on new adventures in new corners of the galaxy in every episode. Starfleet Academy tries to tell that tale in a different way — presenting the Academy as a school that is also a giant starship with a warp drive that gets waylaid while traveling through space to its home on Earth in San Francisco.

Paul Giamatti as Nus Braka and Holly Hunter as Nahla Ake.

Paul Giamatti as Nus Braka and Holly Hunter as Nahla Ake.

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The first episode of the series is among its most action-packed, featuring Oscar-winner Holly Hunter as Nahla Ake, the Academy’s chancellor and the starship’s captain. At over 400 years old, she’s part Lanthanite — a particularly long lived alien species introduced on Star Trek: Strange New Worlds — so she remembers the pre-calamity days when the Federation was in full bloom and the Academy was regularly churning out ace starship personnel.

Paul Giamatti chews the scenery as Nus Braka, a ruthless criminal who has history with Ake and attacks the Academy for payback. And new face Sandro Rosta plays Caleb Mir, a well-muscled, rebellious kid who was separated from his mom by Ake back in the day and has agreed to attend Starfleet Academy if the chancellor helps him track down his mother (played by, of all people, Orphan Black star Tatiana Maslany; be still my sci-fi geek heart!).

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If this sounds like a lot, that’s because it is. In fact, over its first few episodes, Starfleet Academy is so stuffed with new characters, subplots and franchise references, it’s not clear this program knows what kind of series it wants to be. Is it a rollicking adventure building out the damaged universe first revealed after Discovery’s time jump? Or is it a bizarre blend of Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Beverly Hills: 90210 set in the stars, featuring an idiosyncratic group of young aspirants coming of age in the most bizarre college on television?

Consider this sampling of storylines: Hunter’s hippie-ish leader Ake is struggling to make amends while teaching Caleb the ways of the Federation. Caleb, meanwhile, is on his own journey, trying to find a mom he hasn’t seen for many years, who he learns has escaped from a Federation prison.

He’s surrounded by cadets with their own odd stories, including a sentient hologram trying to learn if her people can trust humanoids and a member of the warlike Klingon race who seems uncharacteristically peaceful and non-combative. Comic Gina Yashere is particularly entertaining as Lura Thok — the cadet master and second-in-command at the academy who also happens to be a hybrid of two of Trek’s most combative races: Klingons and the Jem’Hadar from Star Trek: Deep Space Nine.

There’s also the requisite fan service, including the return of Robert Picardo as the now-900 year old Doctor, the emergency medical hologram he played on the UPN series Star Trek: Voyager back in 1995. Comic Tig Notaro pops up as Jett Reno, an engineer from Discovery who now teaches at this brand new Starfleet Academy.

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There are many moments when Starfleet Academy shows promise. Once the first episode gets past the predictable dynamic of a damaged Caleb rebelling against a remorseful Ake, it becomes a bracing adventure that shows off how this new clutch of cadets can excel by working together. The sets are sprawling and lovingly detailed, with special effects comparable to any feature film.

The sixth episode of the season, featuring cadets pitted against a hostile force trying to take over a junked starship, offers similar excitement — along with several powerhouse scenes between Hunter and Giamatti, sparks flying as their characters play a cat-and-mouse game.

As a longtime Trek fan, I love the series’ habit of winking at franchise history in key moments. One episode features the holographic cadet excavating the story of Avery Brooks’ legendary character from Star Trek: Deep Space Nine (DS9), Benjamin Sisko. Given how Trek often seems to treat DS9 like an afterthought, it was particularly nice to see the newest series nod at a program often considered the franchise’s most daring departure.

In the Trek universe, the Federation of Planets has often been an allegory for America’s belief in itself. During the original series in the late 1960s, that meant the Federation was an unquestioned force for good and equitable order — too many episodes were centered on persuading wayward alien species to just get with the program and join the Federation, already — in the same way real-life American politicians were fighting to keep countries around the world from aligning with Communist systems.

Subsequent Trek series have interrogated those ideas in all kinds of ways. Starfleet Academy finds itself in a unique position to ask potent questions about the values at the heart of Trek itself. When the Academy teaches these young cadets about the Federation, what values are they passing along?

Do the Federation and Starfleet really stand for an advanced way of uniting life forms across the galaxy? Or is it a collection of myths humanoid species have told each other to justify colonizing increasing numbers of sentient species?

There are hints Starfleet Academy is positioning itself to tackle questions like that in future episodes — Giamatti’s Nus Braka gives a speech in one episode that really takes on the Federation’s capacity for arrogant condescension.

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But, so far, the episodes shared with critics — the first six of 10 in the season — seem more like a promising collection of characters and storylines just setting the table for future achievement, not quite ready to prove its value beyond the legends of Kirk and Spock.

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How to have the best Sunday in L.A., according to Richard Marx

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How to have the best Sunday in L.A., according to Richard Marx

Richard Marx keeps circling back to one word during our interview: elegance.

The descriptor works for the artist’s latest album, “After Hours,” a collection of originals and standards that sees the 62-year-old Marx channel his inner, swinging Frank Sinatra. But Marx also uses the word to detail his life with partner Daisy Fuentes, with whom he wrote the light-stepping Latin-tinged new number “Magic Hour.”

“It’s one of my favorite, if not favorite word, these days,” Marx says. “I just want to live my life more elegantly.”

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How does that manifest? The hitmaker, who rose to fame with the now timeless ballad “Right Here Waiting,” never hopes to miss a small indulgence such as a nightly martini. Marx was born in Chicago but says he has fully acclimated to the Southern California lifestyle. It’s on the hiking trails, for instance, where he does his best songwriting, and it’s around the firepit where he and Fuentes share their deepest conversations.

Splitting time between two homes — one “in the deep Valley” and another in Malibu — Marx these days appears intent on aging gracefully. It’s partly what drew him to record an album that lovingly pays homage to the likes of Sinatra and Dean Martin.

“When I recorded this album, I dressed up,” he says. “I put on a suit like Sinatra used to do. It makes sense, since in the last dozen years since I met Daisy — she’s sort of old-school — we’ve tried to be as elegant about everything as we possibly can.”

Marx shares with us his ideas for a most elegant Sunday in L.A.

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This interview has been lightly edited and condensed for length and clarity.

8:30 a.m.: Sun and meditation

I start every day when I’m in California with an iced coffee of some kind, sitting in the sun for 20 minutes. No sunscreen, just 20 minutes of vitamin D. I don’t look at my phone. This is my 20-minute meditation with a little caffeine and the sun on my skin. That’s so important to me.

9:30 a.m.: Brunch at home or in Malibu

Daisy is a really great cook. She’s great across the board, but her breakfast and brunch talent is off the charts. So usually on a Sunday we’re going to stay home and she’s going to make some brunch. If we go out, one of my favorite Sundays, even when we’re here in the Valley, is to drive over the hill and go to the Malibu Country Mart or stop in the Marmalade Cafe or the Carbon Beach Club, which is in the Malibu Beach Inn. There’s a couple places we love in Malibu. There’s a place called Ollo’s that has great breakfast. It’s in a strip mall with Ralph’s.

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11 a.m.: More sun on the trails

I’m addicted to hiking and so is Daisy. There are some really great hikes out here in the Valley — Las Virgenes — but my favorite hikes are in Malibu, whether it’s Solstice Canyon or the Westward Beach hike. It’s not a challenging hike physically, but it’s probably the most gorgeous hike. What’s the point of being in California if you’re not outside? Sunday is a day I need to be out hiking in the sun and sweating.

About 30% of the time I’m writing in my head, even if I don’t want to be. It happens. If Daisy is with me, I love to not take my phone because I like to be unencumbered and to not think about it. What will happen is then I’ll have to have her open her voice notes and sing a melody into it. I’ve written so many songs in the great outdoors. I saw an interview with Sting where he said that lyrics hide behind bushes and trees and under rocks. He goes outside too. I knew I liked Sting.

2:30 p.m.: Time to chill with a book

And then it’s really just a matter of relaxing, getting some time to sit with a great book in the afternoon. I always have a couple books going at the same time. I haven’t been reading hardly any fiction for a while, but I just started reading Scott Galloway’s book, “Notes on Being a Man.” He’s an investment guy and he’s got companies, but he’s become really big on social media. He’s an interesting guy, and I’m totally into that book. I’m almost finished with Charlie Sheen’s memoir. I saw the documentary, which I thought was amazing. His story is fascinating, and the quality of that filmmaking, especially in the use of the old movie footage, I thought was world-class. So I’m finishing Charlie’s book. Those are the two I’m reading right now.

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4:30 p.m.: Pre-dinner martinis

As great a cook as Daisy is, we like to go out for dinner. Our favorite thing is to go someplace for martinis and a little bite of something and then another place for dinner. With more martinis. I can’t focus enough on the martinis.

If I had to pick one martini spot, it’s Lucky’s in Malibu. First of all, it’s an incredible martini, but they do a whole presentation. They bring it over to the table and shake it at the table. It’s a generous pour. You usually get a little sidecar. Being vegetarian, it’s a little challenging, but it’s a great place for us. There’s also a place called V’s. It’s a local place that’s been there a long time. They have a tiny little bar when you first walk in the door with a couple little hi-tops. That’s a really nice place to stop and get a quick drink and maybe a flatbread.

7 p.m.: Dinner and a scene

I’m going to sound so obnoxious saying this, but I really love Craig’s. I love going there. We feel at home there. They take good care of us. If I’m going to Craig’s for dinner, I’m looking forward to it all day. I always run into people I know. It’s a hot spot of activity. It’s just about feeling comfortable.

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It’s a scene-y place, but I got s—-faced at Craig’s with Rod Stewart one night. We got so drunk together. It was just the two of us, like 2½ years ago. We’ve become really great friends, and we had a driver, of course, but it was such a fun night and I’ve had so many fun nights at Craig’s, with my family and friends. It’s an industry place, but it happens to be my industry so it’s really fun for me, especially when I run into someone I haven’t seen for a while or I meet somebody who I admire.

9:30 p.m.: Relax on the balcony

Daisy and I, we talk. We have endless conversations. I still have so much to tell her, and so much I want her to tell me. We’ve been together 12 years, and one of my favorite things is to come home, and we have a firepit outside our house here or in Malibu we have a beautiful balcony overlooking the beach. In either of those places we’ll just sit and talk for hours, until we’re sleepy. There’s not a lot of going to the movies or going out. Once we come back from dinner, we love our time to wind down.

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Yes, introverts and extroverts can be good friends. Here’s how

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Yes, introverts and extroverts can be good friends. Here’s how

Whenever I rendezvous with an extroverted friend, I feel a pang of anxiety as an introvert.

Will I have space to be my slow, quiet self? Will I have trouble keeping up with their chatter?

Usually the hang is glorious. But sometimes, the energy is off.

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I’ve never confronted my extroverted friends about this. So it was validating to hear from Jennifer Kahnweiler, author of The Introverted Leader, that I wasn’t alone.

Kahnweiler says extroverts and introverts move through the world differently — and friendships can suffer when those differences clash.

The key, she says, is to speak up before the resentments pile up. “If we don’t talk about these disconnects, they don’t get better,” she says.

Kahnweiler, who trains leaders, teams and organizations on how to help introverts thrive in an extroverted world, shares tips on how both personalities can get along.

Don’t pigeonhole your friend  

Introversion and extroversion are on “opposite ends of a continuum” and not a binary, says William Chopik, a social-personality psychologist at Michigan State University. “People mostly fall somewhere in between those two extremes.”

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Introverts are quieter, more introspective, deliberate, really into alone time. Extroverts are more talkative, outgoing, energetic, and very into socializing.

Where you fall on the spectrum isn’t static. For example, people tend to get a little more introverted as they get older, says Chopik, because of shifts in motivation, energy and lifestyle.

Context matters too. Speaking for myself, if I’ve starved myself of enough social contact, sometimes I can be the life of the party.

For this reason, try not to pigeonhole your friend as “just an introvert” or “just an extrovert.” Instead, use these concepts as “pairs of glasses you could look through,” Kahnweiler says.

Don’t take behaviors personally 

If your friend is exhibiting a behavior that’s bugging you, consider whether it might be due to a personality difference, Kahnweiler says. Then show a little grace.

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Kahnweiler shares the story of an extroverted woman trying to be friendly with an introverted coworker. When she asked about her coworker’s daughter getting married, the coworker shut down.

Later, she learned that her coworker thought she was being rude. They didn’t know each other well enough for such private questions. The woman didn’t take it personally, and today they’re friends.

Say what you need. Your friends aren’t mind readers. 

Kahnweiler has heard many complaints from both sides about the other.

Extroverts grumble that introverts move and talk slowly and pause a lot, don’t show a lot of facial expressions, and don’t give enough social cues.

Introverts gripe that extroverts can’t be alone, talk too much, hate silence, interrupt and are poor listeners.

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If you have these issues with your friend, talk about it, Kahnweiler says. Introverts might say, “There are times when I want to talk, but I don’t always feel like there’s space for me to get my ideas out there. How about if you pause more? And on my part, I will be more forthcoming with sharing because I want to have more of an even interchange and because I love you dearly.”

Invent some hacks

Come up with a code phrase or gesture to remind you what you both need.

While hanging out with an introverted friend, Kahnweiler, who is an extrovert, sometimes holds her hands underneath the table. It’s her signal to “shut your mouth,” she says.

She also has a bracelet she wears to remind herself to listen and not just rush to fill the silence. “It’s my little anchor,” she says.

Appreciate what’s unique about your friend 

Consider the introverts and extroverts in your social circle. How do they improve your life?

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Thinking about her introverted friends, Kahnweiler got emotional. “You guys model how to be alone with yourself, and then I started becoming more comfortable with that,” she says.

As for me, if it weren’t for my extroverted sweeties, my cats would get sick of me.

So tell your friends what you love about their unique characteristics. “I wonder what it would be like if we told each other that more,” she says. “How good would that feel?”

The digital story was edited by Malaka Gharib, with art direction by Beck Harlan. We’d love to hear from you. Leave us a voicemail at 202-216-9823, or email us at LifeKit@npr.org.

Listen to Life Kit on Apple Podcasts and Spotify, and sign up for our newsletter. Follow us on Instagram: @nprlifekit.

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