On a Sunday afternoon in Los Angeles, a group of longtime friends recorded a conversation on the side of the road at Grand Avenue and 3rd Street after a long day of skating around the city with legendary photographer Atiba Jefferson, who was heading home after shooting the crew. Lee Spielman, a California native and co-founder of Babylon L.A., a locally based skate and streetwear brand, has known this group for years. He sat down to talk with pro skater Na-Kel Smith, who’s now been skating for more than 20 years; 13-year-old Junior Gutierrez, who started skating at age 3; and filmmaker Davonte Jolly, another longtime skater. All three were born and raised in L.A. — the “mecca of skateboarding,” as Smith put it. “If you’re gonna get a clip here, it’s gotta be beast, because everything’s been skated.”

Lee Spielman: Na-Kel and Jolly, how did you guys meet each other?

Davonte Jolly: We first met in 2015 casually, and then we started skating together a little after that.

LS: When did you start creatively working on longer-form video projects together?

DJ: The beginning of our relationship was literally just us hanging out at spots, like we wouldn’t even necessarily get clips, until that barrier was broken on the switch hard flip I filmed for the Adidas — Away Days video Nak was working on.

LS: I don’t think people who watch skate videos always understand what goes into it. You press play and watch this crazy montage of people going off, but there’s a lot more that goes into it, both physically and emotionally, between the skater and the filmer. Is there a way to explain the trust involved in that? You’re about to try something that is absolutely insane, obviously unsafe, you have to be —

DJ: A support system.

Na-Kel Smith: You’ve got to build up the chemistry. You’ve got to be able to sit around somebody for hours. I skate with a lot of different filmers, but I have a different trust when it comes to Jolly because I know my clips are always gonna look good. I know that I can communicate with Jolly if I need to use it for something for one of my sponsors. He’s not gonna go missing on me. He is organized. He helps me keep track of my list of tricks while I’m working on parts. It’s really just all-around communication.

LS: And being able to see creatively eye to eye?

NS: That’s where the trust comes in. I’m not necessarily too pressed on, “Yo, get this angle, do this.” Because I trust your angle, and that’s why I skate with you, so I don’t have to worry about that.

LS: What do you look for in a videographer?

NS: Off top, communication. And somebody that’s fun. If you’re not fun to be around, it ain’t no point …

Na-Kel Smith wears Louis Vuitton by Tyler, the Creator backpack, Hardies Hardware jacket, Levis pants, Adidas Superstars shoes, King Skateboards board.

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LS: Jolly, we’ve traveled the world together — from Europe to Japan and in between. I’ve seen it before, when you pull out the camera on a session, people try to get filmed by you. I bet your inbox is flooded with people asking to go skate. There are a ton of skaters out there, but you’ve chosen to focus on a select few. What’s always been cool about your videos, to me, is that it feels like a collective. What is it that you look for in a skater when you’re working on videos?

DJ: I think early on in my filming career, I did choose who I filmed more so on a trick basis, but through that process, I learned you have to be selective about who you choose to not only attach your work to but just work with in general. From that, a tree kind of formed. I’ll use Na-Kel as an example. We’ll go out, he’ll bring someone that he loves to film with, and then I’ll meet and build a genuine relationship with someone, like Ishod [Wair], and from that, chemistry is formed. I’m not necessarily on a scout for the next top skater to film. Every skater that I film, it organically happens from another person that I already film with.

LS: Atiba shot all the photos that are in this magazine. I think there’s something to touch upon with him sort of being the glue that holds all this together, right? It’s like we have the filmer, the skater, and then we need that photo. The photo for the mag. Let’s talk a bit about Atiba’s place in that — where does he come in for you guys?

NS: I think Atiba specifically is like our ancestral guide to this whole thing. Atiba’s been around so many eras of skating, shot so many people in general, not even just in the skate world but, like, Quincy Jones for example, who just passed away. He’s got a photo of Kobe, a photo of LeBron, like everybody. He’s really the guy. He really knows how to, I’m not gonna say pressure you, but he knows how to nudge you to keep going and try your trick. If you’re getting close to getting something that’s worth it, and Atiba says you should keep going, you know to keep going because it’s actually something there. He knows what a good photo looks like.

LS: Skate photos before video, that’s all there was. I still trip to this day. You’ll hop on the internet and there will be some throwback — Kareem Campbell, Guy Mariano, whoever it is — and it’s shot by Atiba. It’ll be shot medium format with a fish-eye lens all perfect — that alone is a craft in itself. That’s not necessarily around as much anymore.

[Junior skates up.]

LS: Junior, who you are and where are you from?

Junior Gutierrez: I’m Junior. I’m from L.A.

LS: When did you start skating?

JG: I was 3.

LS: How old are now?

JG: 13.

Junior Gutierrez wears Babylon LA shirt, Fuccuuwant undershirt, Guess Originals shorts, Air Jordan 5 Retro “Top 3” shoes, King Skateboards board.

LS: Coming up in skating, being out with a high-caliber photographer like Atiba and a notable filmer like Jolly, what does that make you want to do at the session?

JG: When I’m with Atiba and Jolly, I don’t feel pressured but I do feel that I gotta do better because legends are filming me, taking photos of me. It’s just more intense, because I have some of the best of both worlds taking photos and videos of me. It makes me want to push myself a little harder.

NK: You’re crashin’ out when Atiba’s there! It’s time to go crazy!

LS: What is it that makes a good video to you?

JG: You gotta have a good relationship with your filmer, because if it’s not like that, it’s not gonna work out, because you have to deal with them 24/7 when you’re filming a video part. You just need the connection with a filmer.

NS: What I want to see out of a skate video is personality and character. I want to see style. I want to see who somebody is as a person, I want to be able to really get to know somebody through their video part, to see if I would actually like them as a person, somebody that you could aspire to be like. Just people with character and personality. It don’t even really be about the tricks.

LS: I think skate videos give a lot of taste and character to the streets, they help kids find themselves. Jolly, what makes a good skate video for you? And also, the music — I feel like that influences kids and what they get into. Do you use specific music for that reason?

DJ: A lot of my music tastes came from skate videos growing up. So I consciously wanted to use a Black soundtrack for my video “Godspeed,” because I wanted to shed light on artists that wouldn’t get that shine in skate videos normally, and change some other kids’ music taste because they watched this video, and now they’re into Brent Faiyaz, or Baby Keem or whatever other artists I use in my videos. And what makes a good skate video to me is a lot of the points Na-Kel said: It’s seeing personality and character, and it’s also just about the care from the filmer and from the skater. When both sides care about what they’re creating together, it shows in the end product, and when they don’t, it also shows in the end product.

Davonte Jolly wears Necessary Evil hat, Goodfellow & Co button-up, Race Service slacks, Air Jordan 4 Retro ‘Red Cement’ shoes.

LS: Junior, earlier we were talking about all the tricks you’ve done since you first started. I can search on my phone and type in “Hollywood High” and see you as a little 9-year-old skating an iconic spot. How do you feel when you look back at footage like that?

JG: It’s cool to be able to have these memorable moments on video so I can always look back and remember what I went through to film that specific part — or just how happy I was after I finally got the trick.

LS: For you, Nak, when you look back at footage, is it a snapshot for you? Like damn, I remember that moment in Atlanta, or that trip to Paris was crazy. Or my life was in whatever place at that time, you know?

NS: Really, that’s the whole point in documenting all this s—. It’s really a timestamp. When we first started skating it felt like I needed to go get footage so I can get sponsored or just to showcase what I do, but now that I’m getting older, when you look at it, we were just so young back then, just trying to get to a certain level. And then you actually reach that level because you worked hard to get there and you’re like, damn, now I’m what I looked up to as a kid. I look at my skate videos the same way how I used to look at Bryan Herman’s skate videos, or Antwuan Dixon’s skate videos. Like, I’ll go look, and I’ll sit there and honestly get inspired and be like, “Dang, this is always what I wanted to do as a little kid.” I really always wanted to be a pro skater. And now I really am that in every aspect of it. I’m just so happy that it’s all been captured for reals.

LS: Jolly, you’ve filmed some of these people’s greatest times in their lives. How does that feel for you when you look back at those moments, whether it’s iconic tricks or trips? How does it feel for you to be in the driver’s seat of how those moments are presented to the world?

DJ: It’s one of the things that brings me joy in the world. The same way I would look at an old photo is the same feeling I get when I pull up an old video and I have the reference point of when it was filmed, but also what it even took to get the clip, or why we even made the video in the first place. So even today, when I was showing Junior old videos that I’ve made, it’s a quick reminder of not only how far you’ve come but, to Nak’s point, of where you wanted to go and being present in that feeling of, “Oh s—.” We are way further than I could have imagined when we were just making little YouTube videos.

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Davonte Jolly, “ghettobird,” 2024, featuring Na-Kel Smith, Junior Gutierrez, and Atiba Jefferson. Track: “Celine” by Na-kel Smith.

LS: If you had to describe your filming style to someone who has no idea what skating is, how would you describe it?

DJ: I want whoever’s watching my footage to feel like they are there. That’s how I document skateboarding specifically.

LS: Na-Kel, you’re from Los Angeles. You grew up street skating in Los Angeles. What makes L.A. so unique as a city for skateboarding for you?

NS: The skateboarding roots are so deep in Los Angeles that it just always had a skate vibe to the whole city for real. When I was growing up, it was never too foreign to see people skating as it was in other places. Skating is how you learned transportation. It’s how you learned your city. When I was young, I went through way more of the city by myself and with my friends than a lot of my other friends who didn’t skate because we were really trekking around. We were on buses, trains, skating miles just to go to different spots and really just to go explore different areas. It’s just an adventure. It’s the home of skateboarding. The mecca of skateboarding.

LS: Nak, do you have any advice for a kid who wants to be a pro skater? And Jolly, what’s your bit of creative advice for any kids out there who are currently making videos with their friends and trying to showcase their community?

NS: My advice to any kid trying to be a pro skater, No. 1, is: Maintain the love in skating. It’s supposed to be fun. You’re supposed to want to push yourself. You’re supposed to want to get better, but you’re supposed to enjoy it. That’s the essence of it. My second piece of advice: Get in that field. You can get a little motion in the skate park, but it don’t really matter. Hop in that field and go hard, because it’s millions of people out there who want to be pro skateboarders, and some of them make it, some of them don’t make it at all, but you gotta go hard in that field if you want it. That’s my main piece of advice.

Lee Spielman, second from right, wears Babylon LA hat and hoodie, BoTT vest, Guess Jeans pants, Nike Air Jordan 4 Retro “Lightning” shoes, Carpet Company board.

DJ: My biggest advice, and I wish someone told me this when I was younger, is just stay curious and follow that curiosity, but also try as much as you can to keep like-minded people around you who also are pursuing those curiosities because the journey is a lot better once you are on it with your people, versus people who cause friction to your journey. Facilitate a group of people you trust and believe in. Understand that it’s going to change and evolve, but be open to that and stay curious.

LS: All right. Quick last words. Na-Kel, favorite skater?

NS: Tyshawn Jones.

LS: Jolly, favorite skate filmer?

DJ: Spike Jonze.

LS: Junior, favorite skater?

JG: Vincent Nava.

Producer Lee Spielman
Music “Celine” by Na-Kel Smith

Lee Spielman co-founder of Babylon L.A. and California punk band Trash Talk, has spent over two decades creating community-driven spaces by blending music, art and alternative culture through global collaborations that inspire creativity, self-expression and cultural connection.